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I'm close to being able to field my Eldar for larger games and have a quandry: what "big guns" should I assign to which models? My local gaming groups have fairly diverse lists and I'm likely to go up against pretty much any army.

I've got 4 Heavy Weapons Platforms to go with my Guardians, 2 Wraith Lords (the old metal ones, but conversion to two heavies is a cinch), and a Warwalker (also the old metal one). I've got a plethora of heavy weapons as well, both plastics and metal. I'm planning to use either magnets or rods to swap them out so I can have a bit of variety if I need it, but which guns work best for which models?

I've heard that mounting double scatterguns for the warwalker is very effective vs. infantry and was planning to follow that configuration. What about the lords, though? Starcannon/brightlance, missile launcher/scattergun, twin-linked something? I was probably going to equip the platforms with brightlances, but does anyone have an alternate suggestion? If you do, then what is your reasoning?


If this thread belongs in a different forum, please excuse my mess and thank you for cleaning it up!

Scatterlasers: One size fit all.

I run my WL with the sword/BL combo.

M.

Double ML I think are best for War Walkers.

In general

-Don't put a brightlance on a BS3 platform. They're too expensive to be missing half the time. Wraithlord is a good platform for a BL, but twin-linked (Wave Serpent) is better.

-EMLs now work on BS3 platforms because of the templates. Also good as a second weapon on a fast vehicle because of the ability to fire defensively. I've been experimenting with vypers that have shuriken cannon upgrade on the chassis (left over from 4th ed) and mounting an EML on the turret. Sounds counterintuitive, but a pair of them can either stand off and provide str8 antitank, or close in and fire the cannon + eml blast for anti-troop.

-Scatterlasers work well on anything, as long as you have adequate str8-9 firepower in the rest of the army. They're usually only a few points more than a shuriken cannon, but the extra range is more than worth the price (not to mention the extra shot).

-Starcannons, sadly, are mostly not worth it anymore.

Alas, I have no Vypers However, I wonder if this configuation (EML & Shuriken Cannon) would work on one of the lords, giving it mixed close/far capability. What would be the advantages of using a Shuriken Cannon over a Scatterlaser though? I could equip the other with twin brightlances for the heavier firepower.

Stelek, any particular reason for twin EML on the warwalkers? Template weapon w/ BS 3 more reliable than direct fire? I vaguely remember reading a post about a trio of walkers w/ scatterlasers finding cover behind forest and tearing through infantry. Albeit, I have only one at the moment, but I figured the fire it could lay down on infantry would be substantial.

As for the platforms: what about mixing EML's and scatterlasers? Not that I'd necessarily want to field 4 units of guardians, but if I did that would give them a good mix of anti-tank and anti-infantry support.

Lastly, what gimped the Starcannon?

Gavin Thorne wrote: Lastly, what gimped the Starcannon?

The abundance of cover in 5th edition kinda gimped the pew pew low AP action of the starcannon

In general:

Bright lances are good on dreadnaughts and on wave serpents where they are twin linked.

Scatter lasers are good in most locations. Guardians do well with them as do war walkers. If you are looking for a cheep upgrade for wave serpent weapons, they work out. Probably not the best idea for falcons or dreadnaughts though.

Missile launchers (in true GW pendulum fashion) are really good now. They are great on guardian squads, vypers, war walkers, falcons and dreadnaughts. One beauty of the weapon is that its the only heavy weapon that can be a defensive weapon (when shooting frag) for vehicles. So you can combine it with under-slung shuriken cannons on wave serpents or with the puls laser on falcons and fire all your weapons while moving 12.

Shuriken cannons are mostly a waste. The only real reason to use these things is either to keep the price of vehicles cheep or in the waveserpent with missile launcher + shuriken cannon combo. Otherwise, you are much better off paying the few points it takes to upgrade to a scatter laser (with 12" extra range and 1 extra shot).

Star cannons are mostly worthless these days. The reduced volume of fire, increased cost, and increased availability of cover saves have all made the star cannon a very unattractive option. Oh ya, lets also not forget that it's no longer a defensive weapon. In either case, all of this has basically made the star cannon obsolete.

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it! At the least, it helps me know what weapons to spend my time converting and at best, it might give me the upper hand in a game!

Man, do I regret trading off all those EML bitz way back when.

Although some folks advocate BL/sword for Wraithlords now that 5th is out, I still find BL/EML quite handy if you're otherwise low on anti-tank fire. Sure, they will be wasted if you Run, but since Wraithlords are usually a counter-charge unit for me, the doubled fire is more than worth the points.

As far as anti-tank goes, I do have a bevy of Dragons at my disposal and can still kit out a WL with Brightlances if need be. If anyone has any list ideas for my model selection, check out the Tactics post here. It is, alas, a footslogger force since I have no transports (making the Dragons a less successful anti-tank force than I'd like,but you do what you can with what you have...) and I've gotten some nice recommendations and good feedback so far.

Stelek wrote:Double ML I think are best for War Walkers.

I've heard others say this as well (and I've yet to try), so that brings me to the question, why?

I've ran scatter lasers on War Walkers, which can be cool. Cover, no cover you don't care just shoot away. 8x3 = 24 shots of goodness. Very good against MC Daemons lists (been fighting a ton of them, and with their invuln saves, you just want mass shots).

I've ran Star Cannons for lots of AP2 love. This works well against SM spam, Tau Battle Suit madness and of course Termies (or it forces them to grab cover).

I've always had the opinion that lower BS units do better with greater number of shots, so EML squad only having 6 shots... (only hitting with 3 on average) scares me a bit. Sure it makes them able to tank hunt, or light vehicle hunt and have the added benefit of small blast temp for Str 4 love. But I'm still not sold... what is this good against how is this better than the two above choices?

Gavin Thorne wrote:I'm close to being able to field my Eldar for larger games and have a quandry: what "big guns" should I assign to which models? My local gaming groups have fairly diverse lists and I'm likely to go up against pretty much any army.

I've got 4 Heavy Weapons Platforms to go with my Guardians, 2 Wraith Lords (the old metal ones, but conversion to two heavies is a cinch), and a Warwalker (also the old metal one). I've got a plethora of heavy weapons as well, both plastics and metal. I'm planning to use either magnets or rods to swap them out so I can have a bit of variety if I need it, but which guns work best for which models?

I've heard that mounting double scatterguns for the warwalker is very effective vs. infantry and was planning to follow that configuration. What about the lords, though? Starcannon/brightlance, missile launcher/scattergun, twin-linked something? I was probably going to equip the platforms with brightlances, but does anyone have an alternate suggestion? If you do, then what is your reasoning?


If this thread belongs in a different forum, please excuse my mess and thank you for cleaning it up!

I find my self changing things all the time, so magnetize it all!

Lately I've been loving Wraithlords with Swords and BrightLance, but that assumes you're running 2-3 and charging out with an Avatar (bright lancing heavy armor while on your way into possible CC).

If you don't have a ton of Wraithlords (owned or running them in your list) or other scary targets (Avatar), imo you're better off holding the Wraithlord back and making sure he has cover (Lascannons can make short work of them, so they really need the 4+ cover save if you can). So if you're going for that strategy then I think Brightlance + EML makes it a great anti-armor unit.

My guardian weapons platforms most often running scatter lasers (BS3 ftl). But... if we're playing super small points, I might be tempted to throw bright lances on my guardians (just depends on what else is in the list and how much anti-armor the list has). At least Bright lances are cheaper for guardians (than say a Wraithlord, due to the BS difference).

I agree with everything Phoenix says on Eldar weapon choices with the exception of... Starcannons.

I like Starcannons, AP2 is really good. Sure it's weakened a bit due to the increase in 5th ed cover saves, but I still don't like to be caught with too few AP2 weapons (too many SM, Chaos SM and termies showing up in my games).

Example, no AP2 weapons, or very few AP1 means the SM player can forget about cover and just come right at you. Enough AP2, and it's going to force him to keep his head down and stick to cover, which hopefully will limit his strategic options. Not to mention my friend who's been taking a zillion Tau Crisis suits with shield drones. Anyway they have there uses and I've been finding myself using them more and more as of late.

Jaradakar wrote:

I've always had the opinion that lower BS units do better with greater number of shots, so EML squad only having 6 shots... (only hitting with 3 on average) scares me a bit.

This is 5th edition, Jaradakar. Plasma missile blasts hit automatically, and then scatter. With six blast markers you'll typically get around 2 scatter "hits," plus four more that scatter around 4". It's hard to quantify these things, but depending on your target you can easily match the 12 models hit by six scatterlasers, possibly many more. Teleporting necrons, disembarking tau warriors (who also don't get an armor save versus plasma), deepstrikers and other tightly-packed units I've hit as many as 13 with a single blast.

Plus with a 48" range you can standoff from heavy bolters, plasma cannons and other Eldar 36" range weapons.

Hum, Yes Flavius, I'm very aware of the new rules and how blast work in 5th Ed, but EML blasts are only S4 Vs S6 so they are less likely to cause a wound (50% chance on MEQ) so even if you're gaining a few more hits, I'm left wondering if it's worth it.

I guess the blasts do have AP4 Vs AP6, so if you're hitting other Eldar or Tau I can imagine it might be more effective...

Has anyone done the math hammer on it?

Yes, I can see the added range being nice, but depending on terrain and fire lanes, it might or might not be useful. I like the idea of being versatile and being able to swap ammo in a pinch and attempt to hit armored targets as well... hum.

Overall, I suspect it's only better for Orks, Nids, Tau and other Eldar. Most of my opponents are SM, CSM and Tau, so I'm not sure it's the best choice for me.

Anyway, I need to give it a try some time, I'm still not sold it's better than going Scatter Lasers or Starcannons (for high AP2 shots).

-Jara