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I am thinking of trying out KOS in a 2000 point army and am curious what the best setup and use for KOS is? I thought about soul devourer(?)- 100 points might be a lot but that almost guarantees he wont be dying and he can also "recharge" by just charging into nearby weak unit. Siren song is also nice too and those LD check skills nice as well with a banner of despair/masque around... suggestions?

You gotta try out the Soul Devourer at least once (though it seems like folks'd just flee and get run down, rather than let you charge up.) Let me know how it goes.

40kenthusiast wrote:You gotta try out the Soul Devourer at least once (though it seems like folks'd just flee and get run down, rather than let you charge up.) Let me know how it goes.

are you being sarcastic about it? Since KOS will be charging at expensive units and if that unit runs away then all the merrier. I will of course try to clear out any multiwound dealing units or poison units asap. Any other setups?

Torment Blade - Gives you an extra attack because it counts as an extra hand weapon, and is only 5 points. Oh, it also does something about them needing a LD test to attack you after you do a wound to the model you're fighting. That doesn't even factor into taking this after the FAQ came out and let it give you +1 Attack as well.
Siren Song - So you can get into combat and avoid shooting
Soporific Musk - So you can definitely catch things that run away from you (this is an arguable one what with all those Daemon and VC armies you can plan on fighting at a tourney)
Allure - Arguable, but it can stop things from attacking you especially if you take the Banner of Dispair (-2 LD to all within 12") and the Masque. Probably best combined with the Enrapturing Gaze

Enrapturing Gaze - If you take Allure, it helps

You can't combine them all, so I'd recommend: Torment Blade, Siren, Allure, Enrapturing Gaze

Oh and a cup, for when your opponent wants to kick you square in the nuts.

How about
Keeper L4 w/ siren,torment blade,allure
1 herald tzeentch w/fly,power vortex,bsb despair
1 herald tzeentch w/power vortex
masque

12 flamers
10 horrors x 2
12 bloodletters
5 furies
14/8

or

Keeper L4 w/ siren,torment blade,allure
1 herald tzeentch w/fly,power vortex,bsb despair
masque

12 flamers
16 horrors
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters
5 furies
3 screamers
10/6

"are you being sarcastic about it?"

Not at all. Seems like it'd be like:

KOS: March forward/orient on target unit, get close enough that if they flee you'll catch them.
Enemy: Shoot KOS w/war machines, characters evacuate target unit, target unit moves right up in KOS's face.
KOS: Charge target unit, it flees, you run through it, hit back of board (can't get off since not pursueing.)
Enemy: Shoot KOS w/war machines, kill

If we figure that it was probably an elite infantry unit with a magic banner, you've probably extracted ~300 points, but lost 550 and your general.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Torment Blade - Gives you an extra attack because it counts as an extra hand weapon, and is only 5 points. Oh, it also does something about them needing a LD test to attack you after you do a wound to the model you're fighting. That doesn't even factor into taking this after the FAQ came out and let it give you +1 Attack as well.

While correct you need to be careful when arguing this. It is not an extra hand weapon it is however a second hand weapon. Arguing as an extra or additional will get you in trouble and you need to argue as if it is in fact a second hand weapon.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Siren Song - So you can get into combat and avoid shooting

Agreed this is a must for the keeper, but be very careful when using it because if your opponents flee game over (Unless that was the intention) Also remeber that they still need to take psychology tests as normal. Also with the FAQ ItP and Unbreakable units MUST charge and cannot chose to flee.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Soporific Musk - So you can definitely catch things that run away from you (this is an arguable one what with all those Daemon and VC armies you can plan on fighting at a tourney)

If you waist point on the ability for your keeper you are a fool. There is almost no benefit to having this. If you keeper is not the only movement 7+ model in base with a large unit he will not be winning combat that easily. Better leave this one at home.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Allure - Arguable, but it can stop things from attacking you especially if you take the Banner of Dispair (-2 LD to all within 12") and the Masque. Probably best combined with the Enrapturing Gaze

This is a MUST! a keeper without this is a dead keeper when it comes to other power characters and Big Fat Daemons. Never leave this one at home.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Enrapturing Gaze - If you take Allure, it helps

No it realy doesn't. the FAQ nerfed this ability as it only effects models in BtB the unit as a whole can still test on their base leadership or that of the Generals. It is now a complete waste of a power.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
You can't combine them all, so I'd recommend: Torment Blade, Siren, Allure, Enrapturing Gaze

The missing ability that I have now found as a Key item is Soul hunger. Since changing Enrapturing Gaze for it I have had much better preformance in combats against larger monsters as well as units. I now swear by this ability.

They way I like to see my Kipper kitted out is as follows.
lvl 4 w/ Torment Blade, Soul Hunger, Allure and Sirens Song. This is the optimal build for the keeper right now.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Oh and a cup, for when your opponent wants to kick you square in the nuts.

He still needs to pass a leadership test to do that though.

40kenthusiast wrote:
KOS: March forward/orient on target unit, get close enough that if they flee you'll catch them.
Enemy: Shoot KOS w/war machines, characters evacuate target unit, target unit moves right up in KOS's face.
KOS: Charge target unit, it flees, you run through it, hit back of board (can't get off since not pursueing.)
Enemy: Shoot KOS w/war machines, kill

If you let this happen to you then you are in serious needs of learning the fundamentals of not only Warhammer but of the Slaanesh army.

The truth of the matter is under no circumstance should you put you self into a position where you will be shot up by anything. If you do than its your own mistake. Remember that when playing Slaanesh you have the ability to control the entire game and you need to use that ability to your advantage.

Furies and Fiends are the best answers to Warmachines and I would hope every Slaanesh list out there includes at least a single fiend and 2 units of Furies.

great analysis negativemoney. From my army i think flamers and furies and screamers can be enough to get rid of warmachines whatnot. The siren song i want to aim at lord in unit or wizard in unit. Basically i want to do this:

BSB move up 8" with horrors. KOS move up 19 - close enough to bsb. Siren song the lord/wizard unit - try to assasinate the lord and then the rest of the game hopefully will be the opponent running off the table with -2 to -5LD.

Obviously i will do it if the unit in question is not super strong - if it is teclis with some guards then definitely go for it but if it is another fighty hero then i probably shoot it down a bit more then go for it.

It is also great because if it is a unit i want to charge at i can spend the turn shooting/magicking it down to size then have it charge me and then i could flank it next turn.

And is the 100 point soul devourer(?) really not worth it? The opponent will get caught off guard and if they really try to run away my other units will be able to take care of the ranged units.

Negativemoney wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Torment Blade - Gives you an extra attack because it counts as an extra hand weapon, and is only 5 points. Oh, it also does something about them needing a LD test to attack you after you do a wound to the model you're fighting. That doesn't even factor into taking this after the FAQ came out and let it give you +1 Attack as well.

While correct you need to be careful when arguing this. It is not an extra hand weapon it is however a second hand weapon. Arguing as an extra or additional will get you in trouble and you need to argue as if it is in fact a second hand weapon.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Siren Song - So you can get into combat and avoid shooting

Agreed this is a must for the keeper, but be very careful when using it because if your opponents flee game over (Unless that was the intention) Also remeber that they still need to take psychology tests as normal. Also with the FAQ ItP and Unbreakable units MUST charge and cannot chose to flee.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Soporific Musk - So you can definitely catch things that run away from you (this is an arguable one what with all those Daemon and VC armies you can plan on fighting at a tourney)

If you waist point on the ability for your keeper you are a fool. There is almost no benefit to having this. If you keeper is not the only movement 7+ model in base with a large unit he will not be winning combat that easily. Better leave this one at home.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Allure - Arguable, but it can stop things from attacking you especially if you take the Banner of Dispair (-2 LD to all within 12") and the Masque. Probably best combined with the Enrapturing Gaze

This is a MUST! a keeper without this is a dead keeper when it comes to other power characters and Big Fat Daemons. Never leave this one at home.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Enrapturing Gaze - If you take Allure, it helps

No it realy doesn't. the FAQ nerfed this ability as it only effects models in BtB the unit as a whole can still test on their base leadership or that of the Generals. It is now a complete waste of a power.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
You can't combine them all, so I'd recommend: Torment Blade, Siren, Allure, Enrapturing Gaze

The missing ability that I have now found as a Key item is Soul hunger. Since changing Enrapturing Gaze for it I have had much better preformance in combats against larger monsters as well as units. I now swear by this ability.

They way I like to see my Kipper kitted out is as follows.
lvl 4 w/ Torment Blade, Soul Hunger, Allure and Sirens Song. This is the optimal build for the keeper right now.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Oh and a cup, for when your opponent wants to kick you square in the nuts.

He still needs to pass a leadership test to do that though.

40kenthusiast wrote:
KOS: March forward/orient on target unit, get close enough that if they flee you'll catch them.
Enemy: Shoot KOS w/war machines, characters evacuate target unit, target unit moves right up in KOS's face.
KOS: Charge target unit, it flees, you run through it, hit back of board (can't get off since not pursueing.)
Enemy: Shoot KOS w/war machines, kill

If you let this happen to you then you are in serious needs of learning the fundamentals of not only Warhammer but of the Slaanesh army.

The truth of the matter is under no circumstance should you put you self into a position where you will be shot up by anything. If you do than its your own mistake. Remember that when playing Slaanesh you have the ability to control the entire game and you need to use that ability to your advantage.

Furies and Fiends are the best answers to Warmachines and I would hope every Slaanesh list out there includes at least a single fiend and 2 units of Furies.

You are of course correct, being the Slaanesh Daemon player. With all of the WM I've been playing I hadn't checked all of the FAQ and you're 100% correct, I think your load out is probably the best you can take.

Well you were almost 100% correct. You keep forgetting that the -2 LD banner doesn't work on your actual opponent. In fact if you try to tell him that they can't kick you in the nuts without passing a LD test, then that just means they're probably going to kick you there twice.

is allure,siren,torment,soul the best setup or siren,allure,temptator? Do people get to use temptator much?

I don't think Temptator is worth the 50 points. and would rather have soul hunger than it any day of the week, Wile nice it does not make its points back like soul hunger does. If I were to take it I would do Siren Temptator and Sould Hunger.

another question... do stubborn enemies ignore the -X LD from masque or despair when they roll for panic in combat/from shooting?

Also, any tips against gunline or magic armies with the keeper and friends? I guess against magic i just siren song the L4's unit into keeper or if he decides to run then i just killed his magic phase.

Absolutely not, they only ignore modifiers for combat resolution.

Against Gun lines Sirens Standard and Furies are your best friends. Also you will need to use terrain to your advantage.

what is one type of army you see this tactic is worst against? VC? Dont VC have low LD by default so that is good for keeper in combat no? Still not sure how to deal with bloodknights with lord...maybe that is where temptator shines?

One of the big things that a lot of VC lack is magic Defense. The Keeper has one of the best spells to use against a vampire lord. That is the lvl 1 spell and believe me a stupid vampire lord at LD5-6 is not going to have a good magic phase. This is a tactic I highly recommend using against a VC player.

Also remember that the Generals LD is used After normal modifier but before combat modifiers. So this means if a unit is effected by the masque or the icon and the general is not then they can still use his leadership.

umm dont VC usually have an awesome magic phase? doesnt that translates into more DD than usual? Also, does the lord lose stupidity or masque modifiers if he leaves the unit? I am pretty sure if a character joins a unit he gets their LD abilities like immune to psych, frenzy.. but if he leaves he loses them right?

Also i think slicking shards will be the nastiest spell of the bunch - thats why i want to stack up on magic to bait out DS and DD.... with -2 to -5 to LD a unit out of range of lord would be decimated and need to roll 2-4s to survive...

VC bring an incredible magic phase, but their characters generally don't have room to buy scrolls, so they have dice but generally not any scrolls.

The thing you can do with Slaanesh is to force the dice out since your level 1's can spam out the Stupidity spell on his other units, which should soak up dice from him trying to stop it, and then you go for the bigger spells off the KoS.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:VC bring an incredible magic phase, but their characters generally don't have room to buy scrolls, so they have dice but generally not any scrolls.

The thing you can do with Slaanesh is to force the dice out since your level 1's can spam out the Stupidity spell on his other units, which should soak up dice from him trying to stop it, and then you go for the bigger spells off the KoS.

Right now in my 2k i have
KOS, Tzeentch herald powervortex,fly BSB(flying helps a lot..), Masque. Magic phase:10(+1 from horrors)/6.
I thought about putting in another herald tzeentch w/ power vortex for more spell power -> 13/7.
To get points for 2nd herald tzeentch i prob need to clear out 3 screamers and some horrors whatnot... In return i will have a more powerful and fruitful magic phase. which way is better?
And i dont have herald slaanesh because the daemonettes are too underwhelming... tried to use them and they failed plenty of times...

Slaanesh heralds need to be riding steeds and running with seekers (who preferably have the banner of no flee from me).

You could also have them run solo, which sort of works, it's just not as good as the flying herald.

The problem with Tz Heralds is that VC don't care about losses for the most part, they can just raise them back. They do sure as hell care about stupidity spells affecting units under an aura of -2LD and maybe more if you have the Masque.

right, but in a general tourny is it better with
KOS,masque, tzeentch
KOS,masque,tzeentch x2
KOS ,masque,tzeentch,slaanesh on steed?

If it is better for slaanesh on steed (i can see a reason to use her since i have the -2LD going on...) i will probably run her solo as i dont have much points to spare.... suggestions?

I have been running the third option with great success. I find that having the BSB on a flighty herald of Slaanesh helps out significantly when you need an extra +1 CR and some more attacks.

Is it fine to put like 1100 points in characters? The rest of my stuff is basically MSU,flamers and furies... not sure if that is good. I guess I will putting it all on LD tests... On the bright side i have a lot of mobile units...

Keeper L4 w/ siren,torment blade,allure
1 herald tzeentch w/fly,power vortex,bsb despair
masque
L1 herald on steed

12 flamers
10 horrors
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters
5 furies

11/7

@negativemoney
What is your 2k army look like with the setup?

how to attack a bret knight army with 3 X KOTR, 2 damsels, 1 unit grail, 3 pegasus, lord on hippo and some yewmen?

shaselai wrote:Is it fine to put like 1100 points in characters?

You'll get a lot of different answers on this, but I'm currently running 1325 points in characters in my 2250 army. Not going to get the world's best comp scores, but characters are just so dang cool. Particularly Daemon characters.

i have about 470 points... which setup is good?
2 x 3 screamers w/8 flamers
11 flamers 5 furies
3 screamers 5 furies 9 flamers
?