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He guy's,

I got myself the new 40k rules but I have a question regarding the saving rolls after beeing wounded.
Maybe it isnt really a question but more a "I'm I understanding this rule" post.....

I have a unit of 5 marines, 1 veteran sergeant, 1 missile launcher and 3 bolters.
After shooting I have 12 wounds, everybody gets 2 wounds and 2 marines with bolters get the other two wounds making 12 wounds.

Now here is the part I dont really understand, I roll both dices for armour saves for the Veteran he faills both, I remove the Veteran but what happens with the oder dice roll that I failed? Do I have to remove an other marine with it?
Or he succeeds with both as does the missile launcher marine and the normal marines (8 dice) faill als 8 dice, then I only have to remove the 3 marines?

Is this then the same as with Close Combat? 20 wounds, 10 marines including a Veteran with power fist. Everybody gets 2 wounds, the Vet succeeds with both dice and the marines fail with 12 dice, I still only have to remove the Marines?

Nothing happens.

The wound is discounted entirely.

The squad is not affected.

No one dies twice, etc.

You remove only models in save groups that fail the saves assigned to them.

Same as in CC, yes.

Yes, a model can only be killed by wounds that were assigned specifically to that model.

In your first example, just look at it as if the veteran got shot twice, one round blew out his chest completely, and then the other one took the top half of his head off. Either wound would have killed him. Does it matter which? Only if you are the chapter coroner. No other model could have been wounded by those shots, although they might well have gotten coated with the spatter.

Yes, a model can only be killed by wounds that were assigned specifically to that model.

Almost. Models that are the same, roll their saves as a group. So if those 3 tac marines fail 3 saves,they all die. It doesn't matter which wound was assigned to which marine.

Balzac wrote:Yes, a model can only be killed by wounds that were assigned specifically to that model.

Close, but not quite. Models can only be killed by wounds that were assigned specifically to the group of models with the same equipment and stats. So, in your example, you roll the dice for the sargent and 1 fail or 2 fails (or however many you end up failing) means that he dies, fail more than one and he still dies...with no further effects to the squad. If he pass all of them, then he's good. You then roll all the dice for the missile launcher guy in the same maner. However, the minor departure is when you get to the regular bolter guys. In this case, the dice for them are rolled as a pool. So if each of 3 bolter guys has been assigned 2 wounds each, then you roll a pile of 6 dice. For each failed armor save, you lose 1 marine up to a max of 3 (all the bolter marines). It is an important difference because rolling for the 3 marines all at once means you take less time rolling dice (1 batch of 6 is faster than 3 batches of 2) and it also means that you have a higher chance of having guys die.

Phoenix wrote:

Balzac wrote:Yes, a model can only be killed by wounds that were assigned specifically to that model.

Close, but not quite. Models can only be killed by wounds that were assigned specifically to the group of models with the same equipment and stats. <snip>

This is also consistent with the example on pg 25 on Allocating wounds on complex units. You allocate wounds, then roll all the dice in the same model type together.

Thx for reply's guys, its all clear now.

@Maxus, I read that example but I wasnt sure I really understand it.

Now I know why it is a good idea to give the guy with the Instant Death dice the extra wound dice.....

Balzac wrote:Yes, a model can only be killed by wounds that were assigned specifically to that model, or that were assigned specifically to a group of identical models of which the model is a member.

There, fixed.

I was thinking only of uniquely equipped models when I wrote the original response.

Method wrote:Thx for reply's guys, its all clear now.

@Maxus, I read that example but I wasnt sure I really understand it.

Now I know why it is a good idea to give the guy with the Instant Death dice the extra wound dice.....

No worries, i was just pointing out that Phoenix's example was consistent with the example in the rulebook.

There are some interesting times you can have when you throw in rending genestealers....

Maxus wrote:

Method wrote:Thx for reply's guys, its all clear now.

@Maxus, I read that example but I wasnt sure I really understand it.

Now I know why it is a good idea to give the guy with the Instant Death dice the extra wound dice.....

No worries, i was just pointing out that Phoenix's example was consistent with the example in the rulebook.

There are some interesting times you can have when you throw in rending genestealers....

Or multiple combats...

Or the most confusing allocation...

6 Marines suffer 12 bolter rounds and 1 Plasma wound. Was everyone else making this mistake initially?

Allocate two bolter rounds to each marine, 1 marine takes an additional plasma wound (for 3 total, 1 of which cannot be saved).
Initially, we were removing that marine...along with his two bolter wound dice and plasma dice.
Then we would roll the remaining 10 bolter saves on the last 5 marines.....

When you are supposed to;

Roll all the bolter saves (all 12) before removing the plasma wound marine.

6 identically armed marines suffering 12 bolter wounds and one plasma:

You roll 12 saves and remove one model for each failed save. Next you remove a model for the plasma hit since it cannot be saved.

Brian P wrote:6 identically armed marines suffering 12 bolter wounds and one plasma:

You roll 12 saves and remove one model for each failed save. Next you remove a model for the plasma hit since it cannot be saved.

Alternately, if you roll marine armor saves the way I do...just remove 6 marines.