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Consider this.

There are two units of orks, one behind the other. The catch is, the front one has a boy holding a bit of card saying "For da boyz!" that obscures the whole unit, while the one behind has the same thing, except it goes forward a bit before it covers both units.

1=first squad
*=boy holding banner of group one
@=boy holding banner of group two.
| and _ = banner

_____________________
_____________________|
*11111111111111111111|
22222222222222222222@

By RAW, neither squad can be seen, nor shot at. However both can also move freely.

I hope a meteor lands on your house and crushes you in your sleep.

I am going to mass produce movement trays that have said banners pre-installed. They will also be pre-painted and very cheap thanks to subsidies by old school World of Warcraft gold farmers.

But it works, right? And as far as 'ard boyz goes, isn't this type of cheese what people live for?

Die in a fire.

Consider this.

I reach across the table and snip that banner off your Orks with a pair of scissors. Then, by the rules, I can see your Orks and shoot them.

Doesn't the rulebook have a line about not being able to take your cover with you? I believe it was referring to decorated bases, but could it be generalized?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Image:wallrhino1

I'm sure people remember this abortion. If you tried either tactic, I'd simply never play you ever. If it was a tourney, I'd call the judge over not to make a ruling, but rather to have him laugh and point at you until you died of shame.

Valhallan42nd wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Image:wallrhino1

I'm sure people remember this abortion. If you tried either tactic, I'd simply never play you ever. If it was a tourney, I'd call the judge over not to make a ruling, but rather to have him laugh and point at you until you died of shame.

I wouldn't wait for him to die of the shame myself. After all, there's a time limit to the rounds.

Grignard:

Yes, p.21.: "Scenic rocks and other decorative elements that players might have placed on the base of their models are always ignored from the point of view of determining cover (you cannot take your cover with you!).

So not only is the proposal stupid, but it is also against the rules.

The quoted rule only covers stuff on the base though, not banners the guys are carrying. It's still stupid though.

The quoted rule covers all cover that a model might bring with it. See the parenthetical clause.

But it is a banner, and blocking LOS to the other squad, not itself. After all, the "You cannot take your cover with you" clause is not referring to banners, but to actual cover. Otherwise I can argue that you cannot move your squads, as they provide cover.

And the whole thing about that is irrelevant. After all, this is blocking LOS completely, not giving cover.

But can someone explain why my idea is so much more death-worthy than the intertwined squads?

Pika_power wrote:But it works, right? And as far as 'ard boyz goes, isn't this type of cheese what people live for?

No, even 'Ard Boyz players have standards.

Use a flamer...

Need LOS to shoot, so no flaming from the front.

The models can be as spread out as needed, because the LOS blocker can be as long as needed.

Why do these threads come up over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?


Yes, you can use modeling to your advantage. Yes, you can use modeling to your advantage. Yes, you can use modeling to your advantage.

So what? This is a game written in a way to allow players to bring converted models because converted models look cool.

You go and model giant banners to cover your units, so your friend goes and models barrels on his vehicles that extend 20". So you come back and convert a super-long vehicle that simply has to pivot in the first turn to reach across the table. So your friend starts bringing Epic Whirlwind models to hide behind walls.

What exactly is the point? What exactly have you accomplished?

You won a game of toy soldiers by abusing the openness of the rules?

Congrats!

And no, the 'ard boyz is not "all about this thing". Bringing the toughest army you can think of is different from using modeling in order to abuse the rules.


P.S. I'm not trying to come down hard on you in particular, its just that every few months you get someone posting a question like this acting as if they've discovered electricity because they've thought of yet another way to abuse the rules through modeling.

We all get it. You can abuse the rules through modeling. I've seen it so many times I've put it into my sig. There isn't any need to post yet another thread about it.

I see.

I completely understand what you are trying to tell me.

I need to start modeling a really really long trukk.

jk.

So I take it modeling abuse is looked down upon more than rules abuse.

Post removed.


Aduro, even as a joke that statement was too much --yakface

Pika_power wrote:So I take it modeling abuse is looked down upon more than rules abuse.

I'd rank them about the same, personally.

Barrage and template weapons.

I believe that it states in the rule book that war gear dose not count towards line of sight and so technically wouldn't you treat it as not being there at all?

A big flag isn't wargear.

The book doesn't specify that banners, wings and other bits of models don't grant cover, it only specifies that they don't count as targets. Only stuff like rocks modelled on the base is specified as not counting as cover.

As far as I can see, this is an entirely legal ploy, though definitely on the worst side of "rules lawyerly" and accomplishes exactly what Yakface says above.

My counter would be to thank the player for bunching up his units as a lovely target for flamers.

Pika_power wrote:But it works, right? And as far as 'ard boyz goes, isn't this type of cheese what people live for?

Nope, it doesn't work. But go ahead and try it, and then get laughed at.

As far as 'ardboyz goes, you've missed the point entirely. 'ardboyz is just a tournament without comp or painting, and large armies. It's not an invitation to see who's the biggest cheesemonger.

How about a winged hive tyrant who has 2 sets of wings wings 1 set completely surrounding his body (a la sleeping bat) and another set that's sail seized blocking 12" of the table.

What would happen if we came across this? We would grab it and break off the wings, then set it back down. Is it legal, yes, will anyone let it stand? No.

Wouldn't the banner simply be considered part of the model? thus you can see the whole squad because of the huge banner? Like it you put a squad flag on the backpack of a marine, it still counts for LOS, yes?

Smashotron wrote:Wouldn't the banner simply be considered part of the model? thus you can see the whole squad because of the huge banner? Like it you put a squad flag on the backpack of a marine, it still counts for LOS, yes?

Banners and other such paraphernalia are exempted from being targetted.

It isn't against the rules to break your opponents models?

Can you win by hammering nails through units bases so they can't take objectives? Is this legal by RAW?

Just hammer the models. It saves on nails.

If the banners blocked LOS to the models wouldn't it block LOS from the models as well?