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Telion + 9 snipers 1 HB w/ camo cloaks. Plant them in terrain on objective and dare someone to push off w/ their 3+ cover. Better if you fortify terrain with Lysander or MoTF.

The "Stelek" council
Inquisator w/ psychic hood + 2 Mystics in Land Raider Regular or Crusader. Deals with Demons and Drop pod armies

Covers many questions to start. 600 pts or so leaving 1250 to add what you want to deal with opponent.

Discuss

It has to be Telion + 8 snipers and 1 HB because Telion is just an upgrade for the Sergeant.

Smashotron wrote:It has to be Telion + 8 snipers and 1 HB because Telion is just an upgrade for the Sergeant.

Fair enough!

People are peeking, but not talking. Ok, I have the codex pre release. Many have not been able to dissect. :S

no

My first inclination is to skip the heavy bolter, but now that it has hellfire shells, maybe not.

I would definitely try and bolster the ruins they're in. 2+ cover is almost sure to make someone irritated enough to come calling. Where you can tell them you also clustermined the same piece of area terrain... eat 2D6 S4 mine hits.

I've been rolling over this sub-list in my head for a while:

10 sniper scouts, incl Telion, and Camo Cloaks. (If Telion dies, you lose stealth and/or people may read it differently than you do)
3 Scout bikes, Beacon, Cluster Mines
1 TF Cannon w/Techmarine
5 Servitors 2 Heavy Weapons... I think I picked a PC and a MM

That's about 555 points, 1 Troop, 1 Fast, 1 Heavy. And in addition to your 2+ Clustermined cover, you've got 5 servitors to stand in front of your TF cannon firing Airbursts (which ignore cover) vs horde, or Sub vs high AS Jump infantry, (Jet)bikes, Slow and Purposeful, or units already in difficult terrain. Make the bikes/vehicles/etc take dangerous terrain tests, remove a die from the slow and purposeful/etc. Any casualties are just gravy. If/when the TF cannon dies, step forward 2" and join the servitors to free up their mindblock, and repair vehicles.

Meanwhile your 3 man scout bike squad will set up 18 inches away, Scout move to within 12, first turn move to within 1 after calling down your pods, the unit in the pod can swiss cheese the unit, your scout bikes can swiss cheese the unit, then assault it with their T5 to put a close combat in front of your recently deepstruck unit to protect them for a turn until they can assault themselves.

Sounds fairly close to something I was thinking about, Telion at least. I might replace some of the sniper rifles with bolters though, maybe 1-2. Then again, aren't sniper rifles a free upgrade in the new 'dex? In which case it probably isn't worth changing.

It seems like the Stelek Council is pretty standard now, though maybe not worth putting in a LR. A Chimera or Rhino is much cheaper, and since you still have to shoot it out from under them with little chance of hurting them, pretty safe still. After all, Daemons & Drop Pods will be all on you in a bad way 1st turn, so you will still get to shoot when it counts, and if it is an army that has only a few DS units, having the rest of their army focus on killing a rhino in cover might be beneficial.

Telion and Company look like Whirlwind bait. The Inquisitor is a gimmick.

Nurglitch wrote:Telion and Company look like Whirlwind bait. The Inquisitor is a gimmick.

Whirlwind bait? 2 or 3+ cover > whirlwind

I like gimmicks. "Oh, you're drop podding in? Let me shoot you up." Demons, terminators, Orks stormboyz, drop guard, etc. this is all played. 50 pts in trickery sounds good to me. Hell you don't need LR. Play vindicator or 4 LC devastator.

Obviously you play something to protect scouts.

@Misgula.... Tight response and follow-up discussion, lol

Yeah, Whirlwind Bait.

Such as when Whirlwinds use Incendiary Castellan Missiles. Or any other unit that ignores both cover and Sv4+, say like anything with a Heavy Flamethrower or equivalent.

If you like gimmicks, by all means take the Inquisitor with Mystics, your opponents will thank you for it.

The Incendiary Missiles do indeed ignore cover but are ap 5, so you are only knocking the scouts to their usually armor save of 4+

I am no expert but it seems that many players who are better than me have used the Inquisitor and Mystics (in some incarnation) in tournament play to great success, so not sure its fair to say its a gimmick.

Its a gimmick, one that works, but a gimmick none the less.

Anything that is a "tack on" type unit and not a normal portion of the standard org chart for a particular army is a gimmick.

Fair enough!

I didn't write the rules, but I will use them.

My bad on cover ignoring whirlwind shots. I like whirlwinds, but you rarely see them.

One man's gimmick, etc, etc.

I'm not thinking big Scout squads are the answer. Yes, 3+ cover is great, as is the HB - but Telion? Really? For the amount you have to spend on him, what does he add to the unit? Not a lot.
2+ cover is better... but how many ruins are on the board?

Putting the Inquisitor/retinue in a land raider sounds silly to me. He does his damage in the enemy's move phase. If they want to shoot at him thereafter, just have him go to ground in some cover and rejoice at the wasted shots. The derogatory phrase "gimmick" is a bit of pointless non-think. Point expenditures that are only useful vs. some opponents have been around forever, they don't need a special word. Evaluate them on their merits and put them in if you think their worth it.

The scouts are pure tomfoolery. Instead of a tac squad in terrain on an objective you have a scout unit with a 50 points upgrade and a heavy bolter instead of 2 heavy weapons. If it's fortified terrain you get a 1 point better save. In return for this benefit you have b3 and half of the good weapons. Oh, and far less fighting ability if they assault your objective. Most ridiculous of all you've abandoned your ability to purchase one of the excellent transports for...infiltrate/scouts, on a unit that has no desire to ever leave your deployment zone.

Scouts are able to get a bolt pistol/ccw setup, and have the fist sarge, so they are better chargers than space marines, but in terms of shooting they are inferior.

Nothing spoils an Ork KFF like a whirlwind or three. As more orks crop up at the tourney level, I think you'll see more whirlwinds on the board.

One hellhound or incinerator takes a look at your standard, licks its lips, and OMGWTFBBQ.

well......

Telion and friends all have 36" range, not bad in todays up close and friendly environment. Snipers have rending, hellfire HB spits out a poison blast marker, and Telion has Hvy2 rending pinning bolter w/ 36" range.

Not saying end all and be all. Just a nice unit to control your objective in "capture and control" and good shooty unit.

I'd rather have a missile launcher with the scout snipers, that way Telion can use his BS on the Missile Launcher if you need to take a shot at a a Vechical.

The Inquisitor isn't that good, it can help but I don't see it being all THAT worth it.

Also, the scout squad isn't that good. Talos isn't all that good, though stealthed scout squads are pretty fun. I wouldn't say these are standard, either of them, to make a good army. They are a fun, cheap support+Hold objective unit, but they are not needed. BS3 Snipers+Hellfire HB's are not that awesome.

stjohn70 wrote: Telion? Really? For the amount you have to spend on him, what does he add to the unit? Not a lot.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:well......

Telion and friends all have 36" range, not bad in todays up close and friendly environment. Snipers have rending, hellfire HB spits out a poison blast marker, and Telion has Hvy2 rending pinning bolter w/ 36" range.

Don't forget Telion also has "Eye of vengance" i.e. you pick which models are removed by his shooting - taking down heavy weapons troopers or ICs in squads could really mess up your opponents plans and make him worth the points. I hope so anyway, that's my plan (but I haven't tried him out yet)

HotSoup wrote:The Inquisitor isn't that good, it can help but I don't see it being all THAT worth it.

Also, the scout squad isn't that good. Talos isn't all that good, though stealthed scout squads are pretty fun. I wouldn't say these are standard, either of them, to make a good army. They are a fun, cheap support+Hold objective unit, but they are not needed. BS3 Snipers+Hellfire HB's are not that awesome.

Well....... the Inquisitor has an "old school" psychic hood that covers the whole board. The mystics are 6 pts each. The unit may cost around 60-70 points. Add the dedicated Land Raider for 250.

Seems good to me. Opposing psychers, check. Opposing deepstrikers, check. Opposing demons, check

Check this..... It has to be an Inquisitor Lord to be any good. He has to be on table at beginning of game to get advantage vs. Demons

Correct me if I am wrong. but Telion can forego his shot to make all his scouts BS6

8 rending shots and either a HB that wounds on a 2+ or the ML, sounds pretty darn good. This is perfect light unit for targeting fexes and the like.

220 points for the squad...

Tacs squad... 175 with ML and flamer... alright 45 points more to plant this in cover and pick off
any value target. Plus the ability to target value foot targets with the sergeant. I think this is an excellent objective holder.

On it's own it is going to get a lot of attention but I think it is more secure on an objective than any other marine choice for objective holding that is a troop choice.

Agreed if you play the whirlwinds, you can blast this so the idea is to not let your opponent just sit back and focus on it.

Telion makes one scout shoot at his BS not the squad

I think that its a mistake to say that anything is/will be/ should be the standard for anything, as all units can become a staple for an army.

But I do like the scouts, and my only problem with the stelek council is that you don't have 10+ stormtroopers with specialist weapons running around and killing everything.

The flaw with arguing that "This unit is weak because if one of your opponents has this..." is that you can say that for ANY unit. If they are weak against more units than their strong against, then you can argue that. But ONE unit ? That's pretty good in my book

@DAAddict one scout uses Telion BS to fire weapon.
So he probably is always firing

Really, you can do two other things with the Stelek council to make it worth while.

Dirt cheap: elite Inq 20 pts, 2 mystics 12 pts. 32 points. Walk them behind your vindicator, or put them in a rhino bought for a tac/devastator squad for 35 points. Maybe your opponant doesn't have any DS units, but well nigh every army does now that all jump pack units DS. Tau, SM, CSM, Daemons, Drop IG, DH, WH, Orks, all those have deep strikers. Spikey and Smooth Eldar can both as well, though it isn't common.
If you want Psychic defense, you buy another mystic and get an Inq Lord and Hood, for 51 points extra.
You can also do a saltier squad, with Inq Lord with Hood and psycannon, Servitors with 3 HB or 2 HB and 1 PC, 2 Sages, 2 Mystics. More expensive, but it makes a nice shooting base as well as psychic and deep striker defense.

So it is really worth thinking about putting an Inquisitor of one sort or another into almost any Imperial army. They used to just be cheap fire bases, but now with nearly every army having solid deep striking choices, it can really be a strong unit to hang out with your pie plate throwing units.

Edit: Also, Telion has the sharp advantage of choosing who gets popped with his two shots. He has two chances to rend, and even failing that instant kill, he can force a save on Sgts, heavy and special weapons, attached characters, etc. The Vindicare can also do that, but costs over a hundred points. I really think old Telion hanging out with some snipers and a heavy bolter shooting blast templates is pretty nice.

The Inquisitor and his council is fine. I think Telion and the scout squad is a waste of time.

stjohn70 wrote:I'm not thinking big Scout squads are the answer. Yes, 3+ cover is great, as is the HB - but Telion? Really? For the amount you have to spend on him, what does he add to the unit? Not a lot.
2+ cover is better... but how many ruins are on the board?

Telion doesn't add alot? sometimes sure, but there are times I think he would be stunning, particularly against orks, I can't wait to pick the powerklaws out of boyz mobs before charging them with a dread. In a world where powerful ICs are being attached to squads for protection instead of hanging around alone near them I think directing his wounds will be great.

Admittedly he's expensive too, at I suppose 23 + 50 (73) points total including the sergeant he is replacing. But then I think he can live up to that cost personally. My biggest issue is that you put him in a small squad and it puts him at risk but you put him in a big squad and you are probably putting more firepower into the target than necessary.

Lets be honest a cover save is good but in assualt scouts are bad, and will die very fast,i have no problems there.