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So I just bought the new Land Raider Redeemer. Two words. FRIGGIN AWESOME. Being that I'm a Salamanders player the new flamestorm cannons work quite nicely, seeing as I have a neurotic desire to use template weapons (more hits I say!!! More Hits!!!!), flamers in particular (Cover save? I think not!!)

Now as to why I post this in the tactics forum. The flamestorm cannons have S6 and AP3. Coupled with the land raider's 14 armor all round and its ability to fire an extra weapon at any speed, do you think this new LR variant will be too powerful? All I have to do in a game is drive my LR in between two of my friend's units (SM) and then let loose with the cannons, and...Presto!! Deep-fried space marine. Seriously, the S6 means I wound a T4 marine on 2+ and the AP3 robs them of their precious armor save. Being that this is a template weapon and I can shoot twice at Combat Speed, 2 of my opponents units go down in a flash. Take out the Devastators and you're pretty much home free.

Do you think it's overpowered, or just another useful weapon to be used against hordes of 'nids and immortal 'crons? Other opinions/thoughts/comments?

Me boyz betta loot dis right quick!

First GW put out an Ork codex with 15 point Devastators (Lootas). Then they changed the vehicle damage table so that Orks cannot kill Landraiders (yes, I'm using a bit of hyperbole). Grey Knights, Daemon Hunters, Black Templars-anyone who can field 2 , or more, Landraiders has some sort of decent decent army build now.

And that is why you will start to see army designs built to take out Landraiders, starting with 24 combit-melta Sternguard, the 5 Ironclad Dreadnaughts, to the traditional Eldar Fire Warriors.

I do cringe nowadays to put any troop units out on the board at all, between the long ranged Lootas, the occassional shrouded Psycannon, the Thunderfire artillery and the LR Crusaders. Don't expect too many players to leave units of marines within your threat range.

I agree that it is a bargain compared to the regular Crusader.

Any smart player would just avoid the templates.

Smashotron wrote:Any smart player would just avoid the templates.

and how would they do that?

It is disgusting. I am pumped to play against one. Any more than that in a single game...that's a different story.

A Redeemer with Assault Terminators w/ Stormshields and Thunderhammers inside.

Tanks? Thunderhammers away! with a Multi-melta blast
Horde of light infantry? Crispy goodness with the Flame Cannons
Monstrous Creatures? Stormshields and Thunderhammers

Nothing this combo can't handle.

Smashotron wrote:Any smart player would just avoid the templates.

But how can you avoid the templates when the LR can still shoot after cruising speed? (maybe if you're playing on a big table; I play on small ones usually) Plus, the templates ignore cover saves.

yutang wrote:A Redeemer with Assault Terminators w/ Stormshields and Thunderhammers inside.

Tanks? Thunderhammers away! with a Multi-melta blast
Horde of light infantry? Crispy goodness with the Flame Cannons
Monstrous Creatures? Stormshields and Thunderhammers

Nothing this combo can't handle.

Plus the storm shield invulnerable save has been bumped up to 3+. Pretty sexy stuff.

I just love how my play style naturally falls into place with Vulkan He'stan's bonuses.

It sure makes the most of its Machine Spirit.

mikeguth wrote:First GW put out an Ork codex with 15 point Devastators (Lootas). Then they changed the vehicle damage table so that Orks cannot kill Landraiders (yes, I'm using a bit of hyperbole). Grey Knights, Daemon Hunters, Black Templars-anyone who can field 2 , or more, Landraiders has some sort of decent decent army build now.

And that is why you will start to see army designs built to take out Landraiders, starting with 24 combit-melta Sternguard, the 5 Ironclad Dreadnaughts, to the traditional Eldar Fire Warriors.

I do cringe nowadays to put any troop units out on the board at all, between the long ranged Lootas, the occassional shrouded Psycannon, the Thunderfire artillery and the LR Crusaders. Don't expect too many players to leave units of marines within your threat range.

I agree that it is a bargain compared to the regular Crusader.

Every infantry unit will have to start taking dedicated transports now just to make it through the first round (as if they don't already). But rhinos are practically made of match sticks and tissue paper anyway, so that plan goes out the window.

Increased transport capacity aside, the crusader LR seemed kinda lame to me. Your signature weapons are 6 twin-linked bolters? I'm paying in excess of 250 pts for BOLTERS??? The redeemer can deal out so much more damage and is also 10 pts cheaper.

I agree with PestilenceBlossom that Hurricane Bolters are lame, but the Crusader does get to carry extra goons.

the trouble is that redeemers are short range only, and thats a dangerous place to be in 5th. if you come too close you'll get meltad to death before you can use those nice cannon. landraider spam has always been an effective build, even more so now in 5th, but spending too many points on big vehicles may leave you with a lack of scoring units, and a smart player will take advantage of that.

Going 12 and still firing your flamer pretty much makes sure you will get to fire it before beeing "melted" to death. Jumping out and assulting from the assultramp with your TH assult terminators only boosts your possibilites here.

Move your 12" and tank shock thru one half of a unit, bunching them together on one side of your tank. Then use the Machine Spirit to fire the flamer into them.

Regwon wrote:the trouble is that redeemers are short range only, and thats a dangerous place to be in 5th. if you come too close you'll get meltad to death before you can use those nice cannon. landraider spam has always been an effective build, even more so now in 5th, but spending too many points on big vehicles may leave you with a lack of scoring units, and a smart player will take advantage of that.

That's why it's important to run over the heavy weapons units with the LR first. But I understand where you're coming from. A lot of the time heavy wepons units are hunkered in a high cover spot or the heavy weapons might be coming from another LR! In 5th, it's very important who goes first, because you can typically wipe out half the enemy's force in the first round if you do it right (I'm looking at YOU thunderfire cannon! And YOU railgun!).

But in terms of too many points, the LR has pretty much replaced the predator IMO. You only need about 3 LRs, since 750 pts for vehicles in a 1500+ army won't really have that detrimental of an effect.

Aduro wrote:Move your 12" and tank shock thru one half of a unit, bunching them together on one side of your tank. Then use the Machine Spirit to fire the flamer into them.

And if you do it right, you might be able to move from the tank shock into a ram. That way you bunch up the units for the flamers and take out, or at least hinder, a vehicle. Moving at 12" with 14 front armor and being a tank means the LR will deliver an S9 hit on a vehicle. BA-BOOM!

The redeemer is amazing+Jesus+taco sauce.

In other words it's Jesacauce.

It's harder to use, because of its shorter range. But it is really good.

When you use it most effectively though, it will not make up its points. The redeemer is the ultimate line breaker, but when you use it, it will be most effective by forcing your opponent to move. Whether they move to attack it, or flee its flamers of kill all death. The Redeemer forces your opponent to move away from where he would like to go. Giving you the upper hand.

Sure you can use the redeemer as a hammer, smashing apart your enemies lines. But that is not the most effective way to use it.

Shrike78 wrote:The redeemer is amazing+Jesus+taco sauce.

In other words it's Jesacauce.

It's harder to use, because of its shorter range. But it is really good.

When you use it most effectively though, it will not make up its points. The redeemer is the ultimate line breaker, but when you use it, it will be most effective by forcing your opponent to move. Whether they move to attack it, or flee its flamers of kill all death. The Redeemer forces your opponent to move away from where he would like to go. Giving you the upper hand.

Sure you can use the redeemer as a hammer, smashing apart your enemies lines. But that is not the most effective way to use it.

Well I usually play annihilation, so my strategies involve a lot of hammering.

PestilenceBlossom wrote:

Well I usually play annihilation, so my strategies involve a lot of hammering.

Well then, do what works

what's funny about it is that since it is a template setting out a assault squad term squad of 8 guys on the side will pretty much auto hit the models because of base size. Dont believe me? Take 8 terms and put them with in 2 inches of the side of the landraider then deploy the terms now try and place the template at a squad within 6 inches of terms which they are trying to assault.


If they deply from the front and the term squad is in front of the tank its even more difficult.

At least its not ap2 ,but it still will hit them and force a save. Just kind of funny , god help whatever is not in term armour though.

Just kind of interesting. Its not impossible to place and still hit but its pretty damn easy to catch your own guys

If it hits them, you can't fire it, as you're not allowed to place a template where it hits your own guys.

Drop pod assault may make you cry as the meltagun armed troops pop out and blast you from half range.

Good idea to deep strike Obliterators, and did we mention Fire Warriors.

My opinion? Orks are the top codex in the game right now, 30 strength 7 hits per turn for 625 points says so. The ONLY weakness in their whole bleeping Codex is a relative inability to kill armor 14 vehicles. 'You're our only hope Obei Wan Kanobe'. Maybe Redeemer swarm (with Meltaguns to deal with Ork Killer Kanz) will be an answer.

But, if you're within 12 inches of the enemy hoping to tank shock him into a pocket, his meltaguns are within 12 inches of you, which gives move and half range.

That, and the Covnersion Beamer could make you cry....

Kharn, where are yooooouuu?!?!

sorry, so what does redeemer spam do to mech armies? Especially of the eldar variety?

I hope you arn't going to take 3 of them....

edit: lol I love it how an ork player states that his army is the best in the game,

apart from against av 14 vehicles

which this thread is about.

Ya know, you can mount the LR sponsons in the front positions, giving you quite the nice field of fire while avoiding problems with hitting your own guys.

Just a heads up guys. The machine spirit allows you to fire one more weapon than normal. Which means you can either fire two weapons when moving up to 6 inches, or 1 weapon when moving 6 inches and stunned or all like normal when you don't move. You can't move 12" and fire any weapons since your not allowed to fire when moving that fast so how can you get the extra shot. They changed it this edition with the wording.

But i love the redeemer and it fits my style of play if i'm going to field a LR. I'm more of a biker/in your face kind of marine player and love templates so i'm sure i'll be fielding this variant more than the other two. Though it's doubtful my tourney lists will have one.

Isn't 0+1=1?

I realize in the examples they give in the SM codex, being able to fire at cruising speed is not mentioned. It is stated however, that you get to shoot 'one more than would normally be permitted.'

Simply because the core rules say you are not allowed to fire at cruising speed does not mean PotMS cannot modify those rules. The short paragraph giving examples is not necessarily explicit and defining all the cases of firing (in my opinion.) It makes just as much sense to me that since crew stunned says "the vehicle may not shoot" and PoTMS allows it to shoot... the case of cruising speed should follow suit.

Spif is right. The old machine spirit said you got to fire one weapon in addition to other weapons firing in that turn - aka you had to fire to get the extra shot. The new one is worded differently, so you can move 12" and fire one weapon still.

Is anyone going to regularly put a multimelta on their Redeemer? I'm thinking against it, because I'm going to want to move 6" and use both Flamestorm cannons as much as possible. However, I'm not so foolish as to think that I'll always be able to do so, and it could be handy to have the option of torching a squad and firing the multimelta at another nearby target. Plus once the Weapon Destroyed results start rolling in it will be nice to have the extra big gun.

I've almost changed my own mind! Maybe I will go with a multimelta...