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Depends on the rest of your list. It is a pretty cheap upgrade though.

N1NJ4 wrote:Is anyone going to regularly put a multimelta on their Redeemer? I'm thinking against it, because I'm going to want to move 6" and use both Flamestorm cannons as much as possible. However, I'm not so foolish as to think that I'll always be able to do so, and it could be handy to have the option of torching a squad and firing the multimelta at another nearby target. Plus once the Weapon Destroyed results start rolling in it will be nice to have the extra big gun.

I've almost changed my own mind! Maybe I will go with a multimelta...

I think at 10 points it is a great buy if for no other reason it now makes your Reedemer a legitimate threat to tanks. Even if you don't fire the weapon your opponent will have to take it in to consideration.

As a guard and Nid player, the Land raider redeemer isn't quite as frightening as the crusader. as lame as the hurricane bolters are, they can do alot of damage to 5 or 6+ troops. The ap3 of the redeemer is best used vs. Necrons, or other power armourd foes. Just my opinion.

I probably will. It is 10 pts and there will be a lot of situations where I can't get a good shot with both flamers

lol no replies on how to deal with mech.

Well I suppose the melta discussion is rather relevant but doesn't directly address the issue. If you have these two flame cannons and a multi-melta you do have considerable versatility, but if you are playing all mech you are simply paying 250+ pts for an av 14 multi-melta.

Land raider spam is awesome, I think.

Redeemer spam is not.

I think combinations of normal land raiders and redeemers is rather awesome though.

Any definitive answer on whether PoTMS allows you to fire one weapon after moving 12"

Can someone quote the exact phrase from the codex?

For those of you wondering about PotMS, here's the rule verbatin from the shiny new codex:

"...a Land Raider that has moved at combat speed can fire two weapons, and a Land Raider that has either moved at cruising speed, or has suffered a 'Crew Stunned' or 'Crew Shaken' result can fire a single weapon."

Regards to mech:
It has a multimelta, but I assume if you are taking a redeemer you have anti tank more heavily elsewhere, like an anhillator, or missile launches in your tac squads, or land speeders with multi meltas.

Even against mech lists, the redeemer is very important in all missions bar anhiliation, and in anhil, its a bit less useful, but is still a powerful platform for delivering your terminators.

In a objective based mission....gl holding onto that objective with a redeemer loaded with 5 thunder hammer terms + HQ.

*crunch*

I wouldnt field more than one redeemer in an army, tho. If I fielded two or more, I'd use redeemer/normal variant, likely.

And yes, taking a MM seems like a decent thing to do, i mean, all it does is bump the land raider redeemer back up to the cost of a regular/crusader anyway! And its very nice to have that versitility when you need it.

Ive just started playing salamanders (interesting to paint )
and i may have to grab a redeemer or 2

ninja, you will want that multimelta on it big time.
against mobile armies you will need to pop trasports before you can start to fry troops.

I think the redeemer is pretty balanced because while it can obliterate event the biggest mob of Orks but it has even a shorter strike range than the monolith, so its still pretty vulnerable to long range weapons

Assuming you have an assault unit inside it (assault termies, fo the Mahussive win) it has a 'reach' of 12"+2"+6". That means it can extend out & engage things from afar - So against mech, it should usually be able to 'reach' out & whamhammer some form of nasty tank into oblivion.

The other good thing about this combo, once thier deployed, the assault termies work fine independantly of the Redeemer, as does the Redeemer works fine on its ownsome. It splits is scaryness into basically double the scaryness.

Second, Thunderhammers actually do the killing of -anything- tough very well. Monoliths (just), big scary MC's, 2+ savers, etc etc. The redeemer takes on the role of killing everything else, infantry based. Whilst a squad of pathfinders could stand up to the other two LR varients (bar any flamer upgrades) & would essentailly require a termie charge or some extened shooting.. the redeemer can point & obliterate with contempuous ease.

Also, having an anti-cover save weapon on an AV14/14/14 platform should be scary. There are armies that have cores based entirely around getting nasty cover saves. Having to deal with whirlwinds is doable. Redeer with PotMS.. = sadface.

The combo, does indeed, kill everything.

I've been playing with Redeemers for awhile now, and I'm not too happy with the loss of range over a standard Land Raider. Yes, the Flamestorm Cannons are friggin awesome, but only if you can actually get them into play. If not, then you've just wasted 240pts on a bunker/crater.

SJ

Doesn't He'stan make meltas TL too? So sticking a multi-melta on there is a very reasonable choice.

This may be a stupid question, but does the Redeemer benefit from He'stan's special rule?

barlio wrote:This may be a stupid question, but does the Redeemer benefit from He'stan's special rule?

&

Canonness Rory wrote:Doesn't He'stan make meltas TL too? So sticking a multi-melta on there is a very reasonable choice.

Counter-intuatively, but clearly worded, a Flamestorm cannon does not fall under the catorgories listed in Vulkans rulings.

Ok thanks for the help.

Generalizing the Multi-Melta as an upgrade to all Land Raiders is one of the things that have re-established the Land Raider as living up to its hype. Combined with the Power of the Machine Spirit rules (fire one weapon at Cruising Speed), and you have a unit that's great for delivering the pain. Plus the Forgeworld Razorback Multi-Melta looks great on the Land Raider chassis.

What LR is better? Redeemer or Crusader. For close support. Like the posts above.
I use SoB Immulators. Templates are very NICE. But aginst hord armies (redeemer ) could let too many P fist, alive. Having lots of spare models in the back to suck up wounds it is hard to kill the front ranks.

I have 4 land raiders, one normal, one crusader, and 2 magnetized redeemer/crusaders.

I have fielded many different combinations of LRs and i can tell you this, the most important aspect is NOT what is attached to the sides, its whats hiding out inside that counts.

If you are running termies, you will want the extra space of the crusader, no if ands or buts. If you are fielding assault squads, HQ squads, ect, you can (and depending on your opponent) should use the redeemer. If you are filling it with a tact squad to score, the normal land raider is the way to go, you can reach out and touch the opponent with lascannony goodness while they ignore you for being out of melta range. Guarenteed objective


My favorite combination for nilla marines is one of each, termies in the crusader, assault squad and HQ in the redeemer, and tact squad in the normal raider.

My favorite combo for Space Wolves is 2 crusaders and 1 regular radier, the crusaders filled with 11-15 man blood claws with HQ+goodies, and the stock land raider with a full squad of grey hunters.
If i swap one of the saders for a redeemer then i lose out on manpower for the assault, if i swap the stock raider for a redeemer then he sits around doing nothing on an objective that the enemy can ignore.

A red shirt told me you can fire one weapon at 12". was one of his major selling points :-P

PestilenceBlossom wrote:Increased transport capacity aside, the crusader LR seemed kinda lame to me. Your signature weapons are 6 twin-linked bolters? I'm paying in excess of 250 pts for BOLTERS??? The redeemer can deal out so much more damage and is also 10 pts cheaper.

You are paying for the Transport Capacity not the Bolters. Guess they had to throw out the batteries for the lascannon to fit those extra two Terminators inside.

The Cruasder is first a Tranport, and a gun platform second. It is still not bad against hordes just really weak against MEQ. The bolters do count as defensive weaons so you can fire them all on the move.

Lyracian wrote:
The Cruasder is first a Tranport, and a gun platform second. It is still not bad against hordes just really weak against MEQ. The bolters do count as defensive weaons so you can fire them all on the move.

Being able to fire all of your weapons while moving 6" is nice....

one normal weapon for moving 6, assault cannon
one normal weapon for POTMS, Multimelta
defensive weapons 12 twin linked bolter shots and possibly a stormbolter

awesomemuch? yes please.

garinator wrote:lol no replies on how to deal with mech.

Well I suppose the melta discussion is rather relevant but doesn't directly address the issue. If you have these two flame cannons and a multi-melta you do have considerable versatility, but if you are playing all mech you are simply paying 250+ pts for an av 14 multi-melta.

Land raider spam is awesome, I think.

I agree. Land Raiders should always have Meltas. Think in these terms; It is an AV14 Speeder with MM (Minus the jump terrain bit). It can move 12" and still fire its MM...which gives it a 2d6 range of 24" or 1d6 range of 36". Tasty.

Here is where the LRR fails in my opinion (compared to others). It has to get very close to shoot. No biggy if you are carrying Thunder Terms (and you should be)....however this means you don't need to focus on infantry if you get that close as they will be handling that job. So..you'll just fire the damn MM anyways. Given that, I would rather have a Crusader or possibly even a vanilla Raider. The Crusader at least gives me more options for a fire base and the vanilla more options for AT. The LRR however, has to get close (yet again) to be effective and therefore is one dimensional (and more vulnerable to enemy melta).

Cheers.

Redeemers are great and you are out of your mind if you think you can just avoid flamer templates, but people do misunderstand hurricane bolters too. They are defensive weapons, that thing can move 12" and shoot off 6 TL bolters and a PotMS Assault Cannon or Autocannon. Bolters aren't that bad! I'm taking 2 LRC in my deathwing! Granted I would like to have taken 1 LRR 1 LRC because I think the redeemer is scary, but the LRC is great too! 12 TL Bolter shots 4 TL Assc. shots and a MM will hurt! Then assault it with termies and you see why! The LRC also doesn't have to wade into battle to be effective, it's good at 24"! 12" it can pump out serious firepower!

Also remember, For a redeemer to use it's flamer templates on a squad, he will be VERY close! So he will be in 6" melta range EASILY! This just means you can't be stupid about what you flamestorm.

EzeKK wrote:Redeemers are great and you are out of your mind if you think you can just avoid flamer templates, but people do misunderstand hurricane bolters too. They are defensive weapons, that thing can move 12" and shoot off 6 TL bolters and a PotMS Assault Cannon or Autocannon. Bolters aren't that bad! I'm taking 2 LRC in my deathwing! Granted I would like to have taken 1 LRR 1 LRC because I think the redeemer is scary, but the LRC is great too! 12 TL Bolter shots 4 TL Assc. shots and a MM will hurt! Then assault it with termies and you see why! The LRC also doesn't have to wade into battle to be effective, it's good at 24"! 12" it can pump out serious firepower!

Defensive weapons can only be fired if you moved 6" or less, at cruising speed you only get 1 shot from POTMS.
so at 6" you can fire everything with a crusader, or 2 guns with a redeemer

Its all about what is inside, the crusader give you that extra space for more terminators. If going with just 6 or 5 with a character attached then the redeemer is a fine choice as well. Additionally if its a power armored squad then this (for vanilla marines) is much less a pivotal factor. As the payload is usually an assault oriented squad its going to be getting close to the enemy and most likely moving 12 inches to try to get there.
The Crusader is going to perform well against light to medium armor but the AP 3 flame templates eat power armor even when its in cover.
The Godhammer pattern seems an enigma, its an assault boat that has weaponry designed for hanging back and shooting. The plus is that it can go 6 inches and still toss out 2 twin-linked las cannon shots.

I think it's time everyone stopped looking at "Which one is best overall". Overall doesn't matter. War is rarely about fighting the fight you plan on, but winning the fights you get into with what you have.

In other words, I agree with every poster who has pointed out that the disposition of heavy weaponry on a Land Raider is always secondary, and should be complimentary to it's payload of infantry.

Personally, I like to kick it hammer-style with this little gem.

Land Raider Redeemer - Multi-Melta, Extra Armor - 265
Chaplain - Terminator Armor + Storm Bolter, Digital Weapons, Melta Bombs - 145
Assault Terminators x 5 - TH/SS - 200

~700 points

This admittedly massive investment is the cruel rocks against which I smash my opponents with the waves of supporting units. Never make the mistake of thinking that any one package, including this one, is impervious to harm or able to operate unsupported, because nothing is, but worked into a list that supports this idea with long range suppression fire, and the ability to engage light armor from afar, this battlegroup is able to deal with anything it can get close to, from infantry hordes to Nob Bikers. Armor fears TH and MM, infantry fears FSC and TH and the Chaplain.

Used correctly, with the large Raider as cover, these guys seem to form a nasty bola-like effect on the table, whipping around each other for protection and momentum as they tear through the targets. Then, they stow away for high-speed travel. This negates the lack of mobility in Terminators, and gives you the ability to tie up units, ram enemy armor, and generally threaten everything within 12".

Roast and Boast to follow.