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Here's an idea for a simple but effective house rule ....... no magic, no magic items (yes that includes rune items)

This doesn't work with certain armies (eg. tomb kings or vampire counts), but it works for every other army. You could probably argue that dwarves might have a slender advantage from no magic phase, but they also lose their upgrades from their runes. What it will do is speed up your game of WH. Also you'll find that big blocks of infantry are suddendly some of the best troops on the board, because they're not being hacked to pieces by a hero with a magic sword or blasted by magic.

I've tried this with my Orc army against Dwarfs (4,500 pnts) We managed to finish after 4 hours, normally takes most of they day.

Isn't that a game called Warhammer Ancients?

Not quite, there's still dragons and flame cannons and giants

ive played this way and its refreshing... also gets rid of uber character builds and focuses a bit more on troops.

We used to do this occasionally back in 4th/5th ed., back in the days of Herohammer. It really encouraged play with a lot more units and models. Lots of fun!

I see what you mean, make it a game of tactics etc. Makes sense from time to time. It's your game, dude.

You could keep magic and tone down heroes and monsters. Say the only heroes/ Lords you could take are 0-2 hero level Wizards, or one for every 750 points or something like that. Or you could simply limit it to one hero in every 750 and lose Lords entirely.

Yeah both good ideas Tacobake. I'm not suggesting this as a permanent rule, it just makes a change. Like the guys above you said, it can be lots of fun.

You wont see me comming to your local club then, I'm waay too attached to my skink priests (and thats hardly cheese).

Just my two toof

In all honesty if you want to play this way pick up a copy of Warhammer Ancients (as mentioned earlier) and try to recreate Historical Battles. The rules for Ancients work very well and result in some wonderful games.

I've used no magic before, but never no Magic Items.

Have to say, it does appeal to me somewhat. Certainly, if nothing else it is an interesting tactical exercise, because as the OP pointed out, you come to depend on your troops a lot more, thus you educate yourself to their strengths.

Even the most grizzled, wizened, grey, hoary old Vet (Osbad basically) will benefit from a little reminding now and again.

One nice alternative that tones down magic item powers and spell casters but still works for all armies to play 1,999 point games instead of 2000 (or 2,999 instead of 3,000, whatever)

This knocks down the number of special, rare and character choices you have in an army thats basically the same size. Core units take up the extra points and games are shifted to core units being your mainstays.

Works well.

Sounds...Very boring!

I played in a gmae lik ethat back in about 1999, My 25,000 points of Brets (Allowed grail virtue for any champ/character), vs 25,000 O&G (allowed black orc to lead each unit), his army included a flank with 100 squig hoppers.

8 players, 24x4 foot of table and about 7 hours later we had it all done.

Also did a smaller game with my lizzies vs a friends chaos warriors. Made a SMP overpriced.

i have played this way before, my poor orcs got beat to death by the Empire.
But it makes a very fun game as you have more points for troops.

Thats generally how me and my friends play; we have a disdain for magic. Its fun and leaves out some of the hassle you have to take in the magic phase. Generally my group doesn't play with Wizards above level 2.

I find that magic adds a bit extra fun to the game, also not having magic items can really effect a game. For me without magic it does become more tactical, but at the expense of extra fun.

never mind

One thing I would say, is that if you are leaving out Magic and Magic Items, give serious consideration to similarly neglecting the more powerful monsters.....

Yes you would need to.

Without items you have litle chance of dealing with Mr Thirster.

Also you would have to quantify what happens about virtues, spites, powers, and marks and other upgrades. It will be difficult to draw the line.


there is a different way.

In each game youm must provide a paper vlist of every item, mark or upgrade that is unique. This particular list is then strictly excluded on the next game.
The definition of unique is something specific for your list you can only take one of and is not a standard upgrade.

So a Sword of Might is permitted, even though you can only have one because it is a common item and is not unique.
A Mark of chaos is permitted because it is a regular add on taken by several times.
Bret virtues are notr unique either because you can take multiples, however most magic items.

So if you take Siriennes Locket, Black Amulet, Van Horstmanns Speculum or whatever in one battle then your army cannot include those items in the next battle with the same army (with or without next opponent).

Items become much more fair if there is a cooldown for the must-take combos.
Got the Invulnerable Dreadlord, or Nike Saurus, fine, next battle you have to take something else. Don't leave home without Banner of Sorcery, next battle you must do.

Items are needed and are fair, but peoploe tend to take the same stuff all the time, unless they have a suprise ploy.

I agree that it stops the tried and tested // min/maxed combos being used. I would also reccomend it for beginners. Just ban magic unless, as you say they REALLY REALLY need it or the newbie is highly interested in it.

In 5th ed when magic was an expansion non magic games were interesting alright!

Aren't certain armies designed to have magic and powerful items as their strengths? Perhaps you could follow up the no magic with a 'no cavalry' series of games, not sure the Bret players would be best pleased though? Or no ranged weapons... not saying it's a bad idea, just think it would handicap some armies far more than others.

I haven't played warhammer since just after the undead army was split down the middle, I do know the undead armies of those editions would have been dead in the water without magic and items. I suspect warmachine and strong troop armies like Empire and Dwarves would probably flourish.

Mean Green has a point. Certain armies not only fail without the aid of magic, but some actually REQUIRE its use (VC/TK). Playing games designed to take out whole aspects of the game causes some serious imbalance issues, and it's not something I would reccommend.

I reckon you should always have magic unless you're skaven. my 1000 vamps have 3 vamps and a gak lot of power dice. armies don't work without magic.

As a 40k player trying to get into fantasy, magic is one of the most appealing parts of the game. Makes it seem different and very interesting. But I can see how if you've played it to death that you might want to try it sans-magic for a chance

As most of my armies generally contain wizards only for dispell scrolls, or in the case of my skaven for extra shooting in the magic phase (warlock engineers arent wizards, they are one rat walking mini guns) then this would work well for me. 2 things though, with no magic items high elves now become even harder, (always strike first, give every charachter a 2 handed weapon, now you out class pretty much every other equivalent charachter) and demon armies, they would basicly be Khorne, khorne, and a bit more khorne. But I might give it a go, just loving the thought of all those extra points I can throw at my Skaven or Empire gun line.

Me and a buddy played a game like this. No magic weapons, no magic, but still lotsa dragons (err, spiders the size of ponies) and cool stuff. It was kinda fun, but I never leave home without my shamans otherwise (orc n goblin miscasts are too perfectly timed to not warrant taking them)

seems like a good idea, although I probably would suffer without my druchii magic....

Wouldn't it make ethereal things slightly more powerful as well ?

However I think its a good idea for speedy games.

I've played with no spells but no items leaves you with just stat lines and seems very boring.