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How many people hate being cheated by dishonorable player?

I might come off as a bad loser, but I have a bone to pick with this guy, so I know no other way to deal with my fustration but to speak my mind and allow some others to weigh in with their comments. Never mind me, because I am just venting, but feel free to get a load off yourself.


I played a guy named unknown for my second game. I thought he looked like a pretty decent, honest, and honorable guy who would give me, who is still a three year novice a good game and probable beating. He looked about thirty two years old and veteran player by the company and conversation he kept.

Doing the game, things progressed as a usual game should. Then all of a sudden I charged his emperor's champion accompanying a five man squad of terminators with furious charge with a two autarchs with laser lances escorted by three guardian jetbikes. The twin autarchs had already wipe out an entire squad of black templar troops in my previous turn. His emperor's champion and terminators had wiped an entire two squads of fire dragons, he even claimed that his emperor's champion had the furious charge compabiltity when later I found out that this power cannot be translated from the terminators to any other independent character joining them.

I remind you that I charged into close combat with his unit. I declared that one artuarch would be assaulting his emperor's champion. He asked me what my initiative was and I said I6. He said that they would be going at the same time because the emperor's champion was also a I6 character. I got a gut feeling that that was not true so I said are your sure. He replied yes, he was like better than any other independent character that had 2+ armor save because of artificer armor and Weapon skill six. I said, okay I will take your word for it. He said he was being factual and we continued with the assualt.

The one autarch and emperor champion end up killing one another. The other autarch killed off four of the terminators with one standing left. I lost two jet bike guys and we tied for close combat.

The guy end up winning the game because of this game breaking lie he blantantly told. Moreover, he won first place at the tournament to advance to the final's round of Ard Boyz. I know he knew his army along with their stat lines. He took advantage of my gentleman's approach to the game and me treating him like an adult. I usually go to the book to reference rules when I play teenagers because they are known to cheat and imaginate rules. I took his word for it as a possible honorable adult and veteran 40K gamer. I asked him was sure he that he was not making a mistake and he responded yes with an explanation to rationalize his lie.

Well, it is water under the bridge now. I will never play this guy again, because I know he will cheat at all costs.

I know it comes down to he say versus he say; but between us, we really know that he lied and cheated, hence advancing to the final round of Ard Boyz by cheating and lieing and as a dishonorable player. I tell all future opponents, be on the look out and challenge this guy on his army list stats, because he will cheat, because he is not an honest and honorable player.

Maybe I am naive to think that a veteran player would be so blantantly dishonest and dishonorable. I expected this sort of conduct from juvenile gamers. I expected mature grown men to be honorable, honest, and in want of a true game that was hard fought either won or lost.


How do you feel about being cheated by a gamer who is impersonating an honorable player?

I think I speak for everyone when I say, "What the hell kind of question is that?"

What happened to you really sucks. Surely there was some organizer you could have told, or perhaps you could even go to GW (ard boyz is GW sponsored, right?) That guy should have been DQed for sure.

Sadly this is what happens. Take the time to look up rules. Taking opponent's word for it when you question facts is just asking to get jerked.

I, oh so closely lost my first game in 'Ard boyz first round to a rules lawyering, non-WISIWYG, sketchy Daemon player. Today he called me out today to game @ 2000 pts. Friends revenge was mine. He supposed undefeated Daemon was undefeated no more. Deathwing ftw

This guy could have easily been mistaken. I'm sure you'd love to log onto dakka someday to find someone calling you a dishonest dishonorable cheater by your full name, local area, and gaming club for something you didn't even know was wrong. They have books full of stats for this stuff, if you felt like it was wrong, and it was obviously this important to you, this was the place to consult.

Protip: Honest, honorable people - give others the benefit of the doubt before going off the handle and trying to drag them down.

I used to have that same problem. The way you solve it is to have all the codexes so you can look it up yourself. It might earn you a sour look, but he'll know not to try it again.

He must have been just mistaken. (I hope)

I agree that it sucks that this happened to you but why would you call him out on 4+ forums by name? What is your purpose with this? Are you simply just trying to get petty revenge?

Moz wrote:This guy could have easily been mistaken. I'm sure you'd love to log onto dakka someday to find someone calling you a dishonest dishonorable cheater by your full name, local area, and gaming club for something you didn't even know was wrong. They have books full of stats for this stuff, if you felt like it was wrong, and it was obviously this important to you, this was the place to consult.

Protip: Honest, honorable people - give others the benefit of the doubt before going off the handle and trying to drag them down.

I agree to a point. But I disagree considering that you would have had to be their to experience the total incident. Things that I cannot convey online like body language, speech pattern, facial features, over heard side conversation. When I said I had a gut feeling and I was at fault for not investigating my own feelings.

I would be less than genuine to talk down anyone else's experiences without actually being there to read and assess the any part of the event. Things that catch our attention later usually speak volumes in hindsight and meditation.

I cannot give a guy that played as well as he did, and told me that he has been playing since second edition the benefit of the doubt after he looked into my eyes and without hestitation say that he was sure that his emperor champion attacked at initiative six.

I do not mind dragging this guy down, because he will never admit to the truth..........

You know RCm.

People do make mistakes. You had my army list right in front of you and yes I was sure. You play for a long time with different armies and you will get mixed up.

I never used Furious charge on you at int 6 I attacked everyone with your fire dragons. killed them off and then you came into me with your Aturachs and slayed everyone but one Terminator.

I am sorry you feel cheated but to go around like you are doing only pulls yourself down.

PLus if you really think that this one mistake was the pivotal point that you would have had won the game I really don't know what to say.

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

People make mistakes in both army lists and in game. I have personally done so as well.
I know Nick Rose is an good player and his Gladiator 2008 results show it. He is not the kind of person to cheat.

Darkwynn wrote:You know RCm.

People do make mistakes. You had my army list right in front of you and yes I was sure. You play for a long time with different armies and you will get mixed up.

I never used Furious charge on you at int 6 I attacked everyone with your fire dragons. killed them off and then you came into me with your Aturachs and slayed everyone but one Terminator.

I am sorry you feel cheated but to go around like you are doing only pulls yourself down.

PLus if you really think that this one mistake was the pivotal point that you would have had won the game I really don't know what to say.

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

/getspopcorn
/takesseat

thehod wrote:People make mistakes in both army lists and in game. I have personally done so as well.
I know Nick Rose is an good player and his Gladiator 2008 results show it. He is not the kind of person to cheat.

Thank you Hod,

But in the mean time RCM has posted similar threads on four other forums.

You don't say a lot about yourself when doing some thing like that. Let alone trying to clarify what happens or it been a misunderstanding.

Darkwynn wrote:You know RCm.

People do make mistakes. You had my army list right in front of you and yes I was sure. You play for a long time with different armies and you will get mixed up.

I never used Furious charge on you at int 6 I attacked everyone with your fire dragons. killed them off and then you came into me with your Aturachs and slayed everyone but one Terminator.

I am sorry you feel cheated but to go around like you are doing only pulls yourself down.

PLus if you really think that this one mistake was the pivotal point that you would have had won the game I really don't know what to say.

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

So do you admit that you told me that he goes at initiative six, at the same time as the Autarchs, during that close combat in which they killed each other because they actually attacked at the same time.

I do not know if that one combat could won me the game. I said that is was a game breaker as in (if I can elaborate) it could have turned the game either way.

I had a good feeling about you at first and trusted you since I heard good things about the gaming in Austin and at the Dragon Lair. I challenged you on a few things as well as you did the same towards me and we continued to play. However, I do not believe that you made a simply mistake concerning the Emperor's Champion stat line since he is a mandatory HQ.

To correct you on a matter; your Emperor Champion did attack at the same time as the fire dragon Exarch at I6.

How can I bring myself down unless you believe that good is bad and bad is now good............

If you made an honest mistake, then so be it, I cannot prove anything different, it is he say versus he say as I said before. Only your conscience knows the truth and that will never be known.

My opinion will not change concerning the matter because the hold experience. Things like eyes, body language, and expressions say a whole lot more than words, and I as a former intelligence agent and current law enforcement officer should know better. It was my fault to be so naive concerning you.............


I am not personally mad at you as far as wanting to fight, guit the game, never play in a tourney again, or cry like a little baby. It is over and there is nothing that can be done now. I just learned a lesson that I can expect anything and trust my gut, and for sure not to trust anyone despite impressions.

My wife told me that in a competition there will be people who will win at all cost even if they cheat. I do not share this same attitude. Sure I want to win, but not if I have to cheat my opponent (my conscience cannot lie even when my mouth does).

I just hate that I travelled so far to be blantantly wrong in my opinion. There is nothing else really left to be said regarding us. I just wanted know what others thought and share their experiences if they wish.

Fine RCm and I am sure others can assure you like hod has done about me.

On the fire dragons I said no everyone attacked at Int 5 not int 6. I also said the Emp champion never got the Furious charge benefit he can't have it only the Marshall could.

Ryan to be honest you spoke so softly it was had to keep up on what you were doing. I had to ask you multiple times what you were doing or shooting because I couldn't hear you.

You had my army list right on the table in front of you and we exchanged them and I also had the codex out on the right side of the table clearly there if you wanted to look it up.

Like I said Sorry you feel like that and I my come off assertive but its my part of my job and I do it day in and day out.


Also I don't play at Dragons lair I play a Battleforge so there are a lot of things in correct in your post.




Ps Thanks for calling me 32 ..... I am only 25... I guess Goatboay was right :(

Why in the hell didn't one of you take the three seconds to double check?

Seriously, you're playing in a game store surrounded by the books, other players with books and you have the army lists right there with you! Whose fault is this again? This was absolutely preventable by either one of you! You are not going to lose a game because you took less than one minute to look up something you aren't sure about! In regular tournaments it's common place for players to double check a rule if someone is not sure, especially to make sure their opponent is cool with it, and thus we avoid drama like this! That's called sportsmanship.. oh wait, there is no enforced sportsmanship in the 'Ard Boyz tournament rules...

To everyone else reading this, learn this lesson: Look up the rules! It doesn't take as long as you think it does, it settles all questions, and you get on with the game with no hard feelings of being cheated. Best of all you now know the rule now and don't have to guess the next time it comes up!

Darkwynn wrote:Fine RCm and I am sure others can assure you like hod has done about me.

On the fire dragons I said no everyone attacked at Int 5 not int 6. I also said the Emp champion never got the Furious charge benefit he can't have it only the Marshall could.

Ryan to be honest you spoke so softly it was had to keep up on what you were doing. I had to ask you multiple times what you were doing or shooting because I couldn't hear you.

You had my army list right on the table in front of you and we exchanged them and I also had the codex out on the right side of the table clearly there if you wanted to look it up.

Like I said Sorry you feel like that and I my come off assertive but its my part of my job and I do it day in and day out.


Also I don't play at Dragons lair I play a Battleforge so there are a lot of things in correct in your post.




Ps Thanks for calling me 32 ..... I am only 25... I guess Goatboay was right :(

Editted post, made correction, post is just about the issue of cheating per the many suggestions. Its over, the game cannot be replayed and the results should not be changed. Have fun and do well in the next round. I simply lack gaming experience which is inclusive of the potential mannerisms and volition of every player. I cannot be assumptive concerning others motives, competitive spirit, and determination. It still was a fun game that taught me somethings but I also still feel cheated but it is over. Enough said.

rcm2216 wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:Fine RCm and I am sure others can assure you like hod has done about me.

On the fire dragons I said no everyone attacked at Int 5 not int 6. I also said the Emp champion never got the Furious charge benefit he can't have it only the Marshall could.

Ryan to be honest you spoke so softly it was had to keep up on what you were doing. I had to ask you multiple times what you were doing or shooting because I couldn't hear you.

You had my army list right on the table in front of you and we exchanged them and I also had the codex out on the right side of the table clearly there if you wanted to look it up.

Like I said Sorry you feel like that and I my come off assertive but its my part of my job and I do it day in and day out.


Also I don't play at Dragons lair I play a Battleforge so there are a lot of things in correct in your post.




Ps Thanks for calling me 32 ..... I am only 25... I guess Goatboay was right :(

Editted post, made correction, post is just about the issue of cheating per the many suggestions. Its over, the game cannot be replayed and the results should not be changed. Have fun and do well in the next round. I simply lack gaming experience which is inclusive of the potential mannerisms and volition of every player. I cannot be assumptive concerning others motives, competitive spirit, and determination. It still was a fun game that taught me somethings but I also still feel cheated but it is over. Enough said.

then why in the hell are you bitching on dakka about it?

There was a fellow on here a while ago that played an IG army where his opponent said "IG have different extra armour that lets them ignore Imobolized results" thats cheating.

If your not certain make damn sure that you take care of it then. It's like if you got hit by someone in a car and didn't say anything about your broken leg.

Being cheated sucks, but when you have every codex memorized then you can complain.

wash-away wrote:

rcm2216 wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:Fine RCm and I am sure others can assure you like hod has done about me.

On the fire dragons I said no everyone attacked at Int 5 not int 6. I also said the Emp champion never got the Furious charge benefit he can't have it only the Marshall could.

Ryan to be honest you spoke so softly it was had to keep up on what you were doing. I had to ask you multiple times what you were doing or shooting because I couldn't hear you.

You had my army list right on the table in front of you and we exchanged them and I also had the codex out on the right side of the table clearly there if you wanted to look it up.

Like I said Sorry you feel like that and I my come off assertive but its my part of my job and I do it day in and day out.


Also I don't play at Dragons lair I play a Battleforge so there are a lot of things in correct in your post.




Ps Thanks for calling me 32 ..... I am only 25... I guess Goatboay was right :(

Editted post, made correction, post is just about the issue of cheating per the many suggestions. Its over, the game cannot be replayed and the results should not be changed. Have fun and do well in the next round. I simply lack gaming experience which is inclusive of the potential mannerisms and volition of every player. I cannot be assumptive concerning others motives, competitive spirit, and determination. It still was a fun game that taught me somethings but I also still feel cheated but it is over. Enough said.

then why in the hell are you bitching on dakka about it?

There was a fellow on here a while ago that played an IG army where his opponent said "IG have different extra armour that lets them ignore Imobolized results" thats cheating.

If your not certain make damn sure that you take care of it then. It's like if you got hit by someone in a car and didn't say anything about your broken leg.

Being cheated sucks, but when you have every codex memorized then you can complain.

You can bet your bottom dollar. I even know the vows they can take now. I plan on buying the deamon codex ASAP.............

Rcm try last year when someone plays you with 500 more points then you of big bugs...

That wasn't fun at all :(

rcm2216 wrote:

wash-away wrote:

rcm2216 wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:Fine RCm and I am sure others can assure you like hod has done about me.

On the fire dragons I said no everyone attacked at Int 5 not int 6. I also said the Emp champion never got the Furious charge benefit he can't have it only the Marshall could.

Ryan to be honest you spoke so softly it was had to keep up on what you were doing. I had to ask you multiple times what you were doing or shooting because I couldn't hear you.

You had my army list right on the table in front of you and we exchanged them and I also had the codex out on the right side of the table clearly there if you wanted to look it up.

Like I said Sorry you feel like that and I my come off assertive but its my part of my job and I do it day in and day out.


Also I don't play at Dragons lair I play a Battleforge so there are a lot of things in correct in your post.




Ps Thanks for calling me 32 ..... I am only 25... I guess Goatboay was right :(

Editted post, made correction, post is just about the issue of cheating per the many suggestions. Its over, the game cannot be replayed and the results should not be changed. Have fun and do well in the next round. I simply lack gaming experience which is inclusive of the potential mannerisms and volition of every player. I cannot be assumptive concerning others motives, competitive spirit, and determination. It still was a fun game that taught me somethings but I also still feel cheated but it is over. Enough said.

then why in the hell are you bitching on dakka about it?

There was a fellow on here a while ago that played an IG army where his opponent said "IG have different extra armour that lets them ignore Imobolized results" thats cheating.

If your not certain make damn sure that you take care of it then. It's like if you got hit by someone in a car and didn't say anything about your broken leg.

Being cheated sucks, but when you have every codex memorized then you can complain.

You can bet your bottom dollar. I even know the vows they can take now. I plan on buying the deamon codex ASAP.............

i'm with you there, I plan on having a stack of codex's in my bathroom.

Darkwynn wrote:

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

When he said he played a Black Templar player in Austin, I was wondering if it was you.


Edit For Clarity:

The games I played against Darkwynn were perfectly fine. He was a good player, and we had no problems what so ever. I was gladly play him again.

What I tried to say was that in my last ‘Ard Boyz game last week in Phoenix I had a lot of problems as well, and even though my opponent had some shady play, ultimately I was the one to blame for my loss.

Blackmoor wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

When he said he played a Black Templar player in Austin, I was wondering if it was you.



Listen, all kinds of things will happen in a Tournament. This is what happened to me:

Well, I played at the ‘Ard Boyz yesterday at Gamers inn. I ended up on table #1 against (McKrakken?) and his Dark Eldar on the third round and in a position to win it all.

We went 7 turns and I had a shot at winning on the last turn. I needed to take his 2 objectives, and I needed my SoB to roll well for difficult terrain, and I did not roll high enough, and I charged a 3 man DE warrior unit with a 3 man Storm Trooper unit and they got beat down.

I learned some important lessons though. When your opponent keeps track of kill points, do not take his word that you are losing 18 to 13. I am glad I re-counted at the end of the game and I was winning 18 kill points to 17 kill points.

When your opponent says that Wytches get 2 base attacks each, and +1 for 2 CCW and so 4 on the charge, don’t take his word for it, and see that they only get 1 base attack (I do not know how that is going to happen though, because you opponent should know his army well enough to know what the correct amount of attacks are, and you can’t second guess him for every unit).

Do not let you opponent quick roll you. Have him roll out in the open so that you can see all of the hits and misses, and then have him take away all of the rolls that fail to hit, and wound so you can see all of the dice rolls. That way when he rolls quickly, and picks up the rolls to wound before you can see any of them, when your opponent says that he did 5 wounds from a unit that has 8 shots (at the most assuming every model was in range) that needs 3+ to hit (5.3 should hit) and 5+ to wound (should go 1.7 wounds) you are more likely to believe him.

Oh well, you learn something every day and next time I will know better.

Now these are the things that I am sure he did. I think he added one extra attack per model on his warriors when they were charged by the storm troopers, and some other things but I am not 100% sure.

S, am I mad at my opponent for having a bad memory, and shady play? Not really. It was my fault I lost. I had 2 units on the far side of the table that could have helped me allot, and my miss placing them cost me the game. You live and you learn. I am more angry at myself then my opponent for my bad play.

To his credit he did re-roll some dice I did not see him roll and he accepted the results. I should have followed my gut feeling on this one however...........

rcm2216 wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

When he said he played a Black Templar player in Austin, I was wondering if it was you.



Listen, all kinds of things will happen in a Tournament. This is what happened to me:

Well, I played at the ‘Ard Boyz yesterday at Gamers inn. I ended up on table #1 against (McKrakken?) and his Dark Eldar on the third round and in a position to win it all.

We went 7 turns and I had a shot at winning on the last turn. I needed to take his 2 objectives, and I needed my SoB to roll well for difficult terrain, and I did not roll high enough, and I charged a 3 man DE warrior unit with a 3 man Storm Trooper unit and they got beat down.

I learned some important lessons though. When your opponent keeps track of kill points, do not take his word that you are losing 18 to 13. I am glad I re-counted at the end of the game and I was winning 18 kill points to 17 kill points.

When your opponent says that Wytches get 2 base attacks each, and +1 for 2 CCW and so 4 on the charge, don’t take his word for it, and see that they only get 1 base attack (I do not know how that is going to happen though, because you opponent should know his army well enough to know what the correct amount of attacks are, and you can’t second guess him for every unit).

Do not let you opponent quick roll you. Have him roll out in the open so that you can see all of the hits and misses, and then have him take away all of the rolls that fail to hit, and wound so you can see all of the dice rolls. That way when he rolls quickly, and picks up the rolls to wound before you can see any of them, when your opponent says that he did 5 wounds from a unit that has 8 shots (at the most assuming every model was in range) that needs 3+ to hit (5.3 should hit) and 5+ to wound (should go 1.7 wounds) you are more likely to believe him.

Oh well, you learn something every day and next time I will know better.

Now these are the things that I am sure he did. I think he added one extra attack per model on his warriors when they were charged by the storm troopers, and some other things but I am not 100% sure.

S, am I mad at my opponent for having a bad memory, and shady play? Not really. It was my fault I lost. I had 2 units on the far side of the table that could have helped me allot, and my miss placing them cost me the game. You live and you learn. I am more angry at myself then my opponent for my bad play.

To his credit he did re-roll some dice I did not see him roll and he accepted the results. I should have followed my gut feeling on this one however...........

you might just want to let this die, before you make a bigger ass out of yourself.

I'm not gonna say much, because there isn't much to say.

All of you stop trying to make yourself innocent. It IS both of you faults because you didn't double check.

Almost as if everyone forgets the Most Important Rule these days...

wash-away wrote:

rcm2216 wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

When he said he played a Black Templar player in Austin, I was wondering if it was you.



Listen, all kinds of things will happen in a Tournament. This is what happened to me:

Well, I played at the ‘Ard Boyz yesterday at Gamers inn. I ended up on table #1 against (McKrakken?) and his Dark Eldar on the third round and in a position to win it all.

We went 7 turns and I had a shot at winning on the last turn. I needed to take his 2 objectives, and I needed my SoB to roll well for difficult terrain, and I did not roll high enough, and I charged a 3 man DE warrior unit with a 3 man Storm Trooper unit and they got beat down.

I learned some important lessons though. When your opponent keeps track of kill points, do not take his word that you are losing 18 to 13. I am glad I re-counted at the end of the game and I was winning 18 kill points to 17 kill points.

When your opponent says that Wytches get 2 base attacks each, and +1 for 2 CCW and so 4 on the charge, don’t take his word for it, and see that they only get 1 base attack (I do not know how that is going to happen though, because you opponent should know his army well enough to know what the correct amount of attacks are, and you can’t second guess him for every unit).

Do not let you opponent quick roll you. Have him roll out in the open so that you can see all of the hits and misses, and then have him take away all of the rolls that fail to hit, and wound so you can see all of the dice rolls. That way when he rolls quickly, and picks up the rolls to wound before you can see any of them, when your opponent says that he did 5 wounds from a unit that has 8 shots (at the most assuming every model was in range) that needs 3+ to hit (5.3 should hit) and 5+ to wound (should go 1.7 wounds) you are more likely to believe him.

Oh well, you learn something every day and next time I will know better.

Now these are the things that I am sure he did. I think he added one extra attack per model on his warriors when they were charged by the storm troopers, and some other things but I am not 100% sure.

S, am I mad at my opponent for having a bad memory, and shady play? Not really. It was my fault I lost. I had 2 units on the far side of the table that could have helped me allot, and my miss placing them cost me the game. You live and you learn. I am more angry at myself then my opponent for my bad play.

To his credit he did re-roll some dice I did not see him roll and he accepted the results. I should have followed my gut feeling on this one however...........

you might just want to let this die, before you make a bigger ass out of yourself.

thanks but no thanks....... why did that need to be said unless you are protecting your boy, no problem........ respect that......... I have nothing to hide. I will lay out the bad and good. No one is all bad or all good. I was simply being honest in response to your comments.....I just speak on what I see...... We all have flaws. I guest one of yours is expressing derogatories towards others.

rcm2216 wrote:

wash-away wrote:

rcm2216 wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

I am sure Hod and some of the other wrecking crew guys I know and blackmoor can speak up for me..

When he said he played a Black Templar player in Austin, I was wondering if it was you.



Listen, all kinds of things will happen in a Tournament. This is what happened to me:

Well, I played at the ‘Ard Boyz yesterday at Gamers inn. I ended up on table #1 against (McKrakken?) and his Dark Eldar on the third round and in a position to win it all.

We went 7 turns and I had a shot at winning on the last turn. I needed to take his 2 objectives, and I needed my SoB to roll well for difficult terrain, and I did not roll high enough, and I charged a 3 man DE warrior unit with a 3 man Storm Trooper unit and they got beat down.

I learned some important lessons though. When your opponent keeps track of kill points, do not take his word that you are losing 18 to 13. I am glad I re-counted at the end of the game and I was winning 18 kill points to 17 kill points.

When your opponent says that Wytches get 2 base attacks each, and +1 for 2 CCW and so 4 on the charge, don’t take his word for it, and see that they only get 1 base attack (I do not know how that is going to happen though, because you opponent should know his army well enough to know what the correct amount of attacks are, and you can’t second guess him for every unit).

Do not let you opponent quick roll you. Have him roll out in the open so that you can see all of the hits and misses, and then have him take away all of the rolls that fail to hit, and wound so you can see all of the dice rolls. That way when he rolls quickly, and picks up the rolls to wound before you can see any of them, when your opponent says that he did 5 wounds from a unit that has 8 shots (at the most assuming every model was in range) that needs 3+ to hit (5.3 should hit) and 5+ to wound (should go 1.7 wounds) you are more likely to believe him.

Oh well, you learn something every day and next time I will know better.

Now these are the things that I am sure he did. I think he added one extra attack per model on his warriors when they were charged by the storm troopers, and some other things but I am not 100% sure.

S, am I mad at my opponent for having a bad memory, and shady play? Not really. It was my fault I lost. I had 2 units on the far side of the table that could have helped me allot, and my miss placing them cost me the game. You live and you learn. I am more angry at myself then my opponent for my bad play.

To his credit he did re-roll some dice I did not see him roll and he accepted the results. I should have followed my gut feeling on this one however...........

you might just want to let this die, before you make a bigger ass out of yourself.

thanks but no thanks....... why did that need to be said unless you are protecting your boy, no problem........ respect that......... I have nothing to hide. I will lay out the bad and good. No one is all bad or all good. I was simply being honest in response to your comments.....I just speak on what I see...... We all have flaws. I guest one of yours is expressing derogatories towards others.

you seam to be doing a fine enough job without my example, simply put, ragging on someone because you made a mistake is well, i think the filter makes it donkey caving yourself. personally I don't know him nor do I live in texas because I enjoy rain, but an escape from mormon wimzy land would be rather nice.

the internet is not a vacumn and while your post doe's not stand alone it's not entirely your fault. after reading thread after thread of rules that are just trying to be broken (combat squads and drop pods was one) I can come off rather upset.

here's an example I have to relate to what happened to you.

I was playing at the local FLGS during ard boys, 2 years ago I think, before apocolypse I know, and I was getting my arse handed to me like the newb I was however there was a guy a few tables back that made himself known by the "what the f**k!" we all heard. this person was fighting for placement, 1-3, and his opponent called him out on moving his guys to far after he moved a squad. He threw a fit and left yelling out of the store, not bothering to pick up his mini's, but we where all kind of shocked after that and the mood turned from stress to just gaming. however that gamer has reminded me of what a narsasitic prick some people can be. While you are not even close sufice it to say I don't have much patience for this sort of thing.

but hell I can't really win my games, and I validate my value as a human being on how well I can paint mini's and is excepted as a gamer because of said mini's so go figure.

NoobLord wrote:

Almost as if everyone forgets the Most Important Rule these days...

D6
1,2,3 You're wrong.
4,5,6 I'm right.

@rcm2216, You had a copy of his army list? Did it have the statline of the units on it? You had a "gut feeling" that the Emps Champ had an I:5 and took your opponents word for it being I:6 without YOU double checking the list in your possession? That is YOUR mistake.

Live and learn.

Darrian13 wrote:@rcm2216, You had a copy of his army list? Did it have the statline of the units on it? You had a "gut feeling" that the Emps Champ had an I:5 and took your opponents word for it being I:6 without YOU double checking the list in your possession? That is YOUR mistake.

Live and learn.

Sounds like he doesn't have a problem coming online and slagging someone off for being a 'cheat' but doesn't have the guts to question the person to their face over what could be an honest mistake.

Based on the facts I've seen, it seems very unclear if this was a mistake or a fraud. Now, I've been around the block and I've seen lots of experienced tournament players make mistakes like this, but I've also sometimes had the nagging feeling that it was feigned a bit.

On one hand, the EC is WS6, so it's at least possible that he would also be I6. On the other, that would mean swinging before SM ICs on a regular basis, which is something you'd notice and get used to. In addition, why wouldn't he simply point to his army list as proof?

What happened here probably wasn't cheating. We'll never know, of course, because the only way to know for certain is to read his mind. I'm guessing he thought that maybe the Champ was I6, and he'd roll with it, figuring you'd ask to see the rule and it would be resolved. You didn't, he acted more certain than he could possibly have been (after all, either you're experienced with your list and then wrong, or new to the list and thus can't possibly be that certain). It was essentially a bluff, and you bought it.

This sort of behavior probably shouldn't be encouraged, but it's so easy to head off that it's hard to get that upset about: either one of you could have resolved the issue in a moment. It's a tough beat for both of you, because one player lost a combat (and possibly a battle) that he should have one, while the other now gets the Scarlet A that (that he may or may not deserve).

Edit: As for looking bad, RCM2216, I think what people mean is that the reason your so livid is at least partially because you screwed up! You should never have trusted what he said (particularly if you though he had been cheating earlier), and now you're mad, not only at him, but at yourself. It's clear you're trying to make yourself feel better by vilifying your opponent, but without more compelling evidence, we can't jump at the guy. The best thing to do is to learn a lesson and move on.

I voted "Drop it and move on".

Tournament 40k, especially at 2500 points, moves very fast. There are a lot of opportunities for mistakes. Some of them matter, some don't. I've made some with my army, and missed others made by my opponents. But at the end of the day, both you and your opponent agreed to play a certain way, in this case with the Emperor's Chump at I6, and that is really the end of it.

There are reasons to get angry with your opponent like slow-playing, showing up late, rolling dice out of sight, but most of them have nothing to do with the rules that can be looked up quickly by both players.

There are reasons to get angry with yourself like "I shouldn't have deployed that unit over there", "I should have included more anti-armor units", and "I shouldn't have taken my opponent's word for it".

Off-topic: We'll have to schedule a rubber match sometime.