How Do Your Feel About Being Cheated

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**GoatboyBBMA**

I know the player at hand and I am positive it was just a mistake. We all make them. That is why you always check with the book. I don't know how many times I have had to assert myself and look it up. It doesn't make you an ass, you just want to verify the rules no matter what. That is also why I always bring extra army lists for people to look at. That way they can see everything I am throwing at them. And if an opponent wants to look something up, I saw go for it. I might be thinking of it wrong and it will help me in the later rounds or other games in the future.

But to clarify, it was most likely a mistake, and in reality he wanted you to kill that entire squad so he can shoot it down with something else. That is a common tactic in 5th edition, baiting squads out to shoot the hell out of them after you "massacre" this important unit.

I wish you the best of luck in future games and I hope this doesn't turn you away from getting games in the Austin area. As a BFG player, I hope you come by and we can throw down and have a fun game.

**groz**

Never mind

**rcm2216**

I believe fun is first whether I win or lose. I play through questionable things alot just to avoid haggling, because it take the fun out of the game for me. Just like it is good to be married until all of the fussing starts. I know better next time not to be so green and friendly in my appraoch. Well it is over and next your is coming..........

**two_heads_talking**

malfred wrote:
NoobLord wrote:

Almost as if everyone forgets the Most Important Rule these days...

D6
1,2,3 You're wrong.
4,5,6 I'm right.

I C wut you did thar.. cheater...

**whitedragon**

rcm2216 wrote:
I believe fun is first whether I win or lose. I play through questionable things alot just to avoid haggling, because it take the fun out of the game for me.

Why are you still whining that you were cheated then?

**Solorg**

Nobody likes being cheated. Even the good-humoured players who sort of drop it and move on won't really forget. The thing with cheating is that it means breaking the rules intentionally. It is a blatant attempt to put one over on someone. People who cheat often end up with no friends. And even that nice guy that doesn't seem to mind will move on to other gaming groups as soon as he has a chance.

Why play against a cheater?

Also that 1, 2, 3 --- 4, 5, 6 rule is abusebait if I ever saw it. All a cheater has to do is argue any way he wants and even if he wants something that ISN'T in the rules, he just went from having a 0% chance of getting it to a 50% chance, The hardcore cheater would try for this all the time and get away with it half the time. And that's just when you force him to roll. Other times, you would probably just give it to him, so his chance of successfully cheating is more than 50% right there.

Kiss your fair and balanced game goodbye!

**Tri**

the only advice i can give you is "If in doubt, Check the rules, check the codex" note i take a crib sheet with me with for each race so i can quickly see what i'm up against

**rcm2216**

whitedragon wrote:
rcm2216 wrote:
I believe fun is first whether I win or lose. I play through questionable things alot just to avoid haggling, because it take the fun out of the game for me.

Why are you still whining that you were cheated then?

Because it makes me feel better............ LOL. It clears my tear ducts..........

**Sazzlefrats**

This is how cheating works... its your duty to make sure that you aren't being cheated. Your opponent might be blatantly lieing, might not understand or have misread his codex... if you don't know him then you can't make the assumption that he's an expert. By you being the expect you keep the game honest. Therefore its your duty, if you fail in this.. you have to accept what happens...

**rcm2216**

Sazzlefrats wrote:This is how cheating works... its your duty to make sure that you aren't being cheated. Your opponent might be blatantly lieing, might not understand or have misread his codex... if you don't know him then you can't make the assumption that he's an expert. By you being the expect you keep the game honest. Therefore its your duty, if you fail in this.. you have to accept what happens...

This has become my gaming gospel, indeed sir..........

**JohnHwangDD**

First off, don't you guys print out your lists with statlines?!?

Secondly, doesn't it take all of 3 seconds to check?!?

Thirdly, there are a *lot* of cheaters who don't get caught because the seem to be smooth and friendly guys.

Now I wasn't there, so I can't say one way or the other.

But if a mistake was made with respect to stats, then the owner of the models has the responsibility of knowing his list. The opponent should never be penalized for your error. That's wrong.

@rcm:
You screwed up by trusting the opponent. Don't trust fast-rolling that isn't witnessed and confirmed. And check the stats when HtH starts. It really doesn't take that long to verify things.

@Darkwynn:
If the opponent asks for clarification, you answered without checking, and you were wrong, then you should simply forfeit the game. Simple as that. If you were a real gentleman, you'd do that.

**Kilkrazy**

Solorg wrote:Nobody likes being cheated. Even the good-humoured players who sort of drop it and move on won't really forget. The thing with cheating is that it means breaking the rules intentionally. It is a blatant attempt to put one over on someone. People who cheat often end up with no friends. And even that nice guy that doesn't seem to mind will move on to other gaming groups as soon as he has a chance.

Why play against a cheater?

Also that 1, 2, 3 --- 4, 5, 6 rule is abusebait if I ever saw it. All a cheater has to do is argue any way he wants and even if he wants something that ISN'T in the rules, he just went from having a 0% chance of getting it to a 50% chance, The hardcore cheater would try for this all the time and get away with it half the time. And that's just when you force him to roll. Other times, you would probably just give it to him, so his chance of successfully cheating is more than 50% right there.

Kiss your fair and balanced game goodbye!

Who would play twice against such a toerag?

A player who kept up with that trick would quickly run out of opponents.

**SonsOfLoki**

this is what happened to me

25 year old 40k vet: "oh yes i do, the ap has to be above to not let me have my 3+"

me looking this up in my rulebook once i got home: "

**mattyboy22**

As others have stated, it's really that simple to just say "Do you mind if I check?" It doesn't make you an a-hole, and if your opponent is wrong then he's wrong. There are a few things that I ALWAYS go over with my opponent before I start to play:

1. What terrain counts as.
2. If there is a question, we look it up no matter how sure either of us are.
3. Measure twice, move once while keeping the tape in place, and once you move there's no going back so be sure you know where you want to go...
4. When you roll, you pick up failures and leave the successes for inspection.
5. If the die isn't lying perfectly flat it's re-rolled.
6. If it falls out of your hand, you pick it up and re-roll it. (I've seen too many people drop a die and leave it if it succeeds, but then later pick one up when it fails)

All this makes the game SO much smoother and enjoyable.

**wash-away**

mattyboy22 wrote:As others have stated, it's really that simple to just say "Do you mind if I check?" It doesn't make you an a-hole, and if your opponent is wrong then he's wrong. There are a few things that I ALWAYS go over with my opponent before I start to play:

to clarify I said he's an ass becuase he posted it on dakka after the game was resolved.

I doubt you'd have even bothered with it if you'd placed instead of him.

**mattyboy22**

wash-away wrote:
mattyboy22 wrote:As others have stated, it's really that simple to just say "Do you mind if I check?" It doesn't make you an a-hole, and if your opponent is wrong then he's wrong. There are a few things that I ALWAYS go over with my opponent before I start to play:

to clarify I said he's an ass becuase he posted it on dakka after the game was resolved.

I doubt you'd have even bothered with it if you'd placed instead of him.

I wasn't speaking directly to you or your comment, I was saying that in general wanting to check on something for clarification doesn't make you a jerk and I actually don't mind when someone wants to look something up.

I don't even get the second part of your post, I wouldn't have bothered with what?

**dancingcricket**

rcm2216 wrote:
I know he knew his army along with their stat lines. He took advantage of my gentleman's approach to the game and me treating him like an adult. I usually go to the book to reference rules when I play teenagers because they are known to cheat and imaginate rules. I took his word for it as a possible honorable adult and veteran 40K gamer. I asked him was sure he that he was not making a mistake and he responded yes with an explanation to rationalize his lie.

Well, it is water under the bridge now. I will never play this guy again, because I know he will cheat at all costs.

I know it comes down to he say versus he say; but between us, we really know that he lied and cheated, hence advancing to the final round of Ard Boyz by cheating and lieing and as a dishonorable player. I tell all future opponents, be on the look out and challenge this guy on his army list stats, because he will cheat, because he is not an honest and honorable player.

Maybe I am naive to think that a veteran player would be so blantantly dishonest and dishonorable. I expected this sort of conduct from juvenile gamers. I expected mature grown men to be honorable, honest, and in want of a true game that was hard fought either won or lost.

How do you feel about being cheated by a gamer who is impersonating an honorable player?

First, it's apparently not water under the bridge to you, as you brought it here.

Second, we don't really know he lied or cheated, we only have your word for it.

Third, considering your blatant prejudice against younger people, (which alas I haven't qualified as in quite some time), I'm rather disinclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, as you are so obviously unwilling to give it to others who don't meet your preconceived notions of who is honest. I've met lots of younger people who are more honest and forthright than several of the older gamers I've faced.

I'm sorry you felt you were being cheated, but if you were it's your own fault. You can always ask to see someone else's codex, or ask a judge for a second opinion, if you feel that something is wrong. There are even ways to do so that aren't coming straight out and blatantly telling your opponent that he's lying.

**JokerGod**

Get over it, next time question and don't come here to cry.

**wash-away**

mattyboy22 wrote:
wash-away wrote:
mattyboy22 wrote:As others have stated, it's really that simple to just say "Do you mind if I check?" It doesn't make you an a-hole, and if your opponent is wrong then he's wrong. There are a few things that I ALWAYS go over with my opponent before I start to play:

to clarify I said he's an ass becuase he posted it on dakka after the game was resolved.

I doubt you'd have even bothered with it if you'd placed instead of him.

I wasn't speaking directly to you or your comment, I was saying that in general wanting to check on something for clarification doesn't make you a jerk and I actually don't mind when someone wants to look something up.

I don't even get the second part of your post, I wouldn't have bothered with what?

I was refering to rcm. nevermind that.

**DAaddict**

Over the years as I am sure many can say, I have mis-played a rule... mis-remembered (Thanks Roger Clemens) rules as I was positive and correct just quoting the previous codex. Honest honorable people make mistakes.

My best "cheater" moment was a patrol tournament... 600 points per side. I was playing a new player who apparently didn't understand math. Played the game, beat him and then totaled his points out for him... something over 800 points of his. As it was his first tournament and first time, I sat down with him and helped him build a 600 point force for the following rounds.

My advice is to give a person the benefit of the doubt but verify after the game if nothing else and point out the mistakes/oversights to your opponent.

I have also dealt with 9"/6" movement masters. People rolling weird colored speckled dice that you can only read if you are standing right over them. 4-sided dice rolling. (Dead rolling dice) Dice droppers. Angle changers. I usually let one of those slide and then nicely point it out that perhaps he moved that a bit far or I am questioning how his eldar guardians seem to hit more than my marines. Usually if you call people on it in a nice way they realize it is at least important to you and they will oblige.

**Nofasse 'Eadhunta**

I play against cheaters all the time, and you can only say that he's a cheater if you know him well enough. I play against a chump who cheats most if not all the time and even his best friend (who also plays 40k) has said this and to be on the look-out.

I've played against him multiple times and found quite a few cheats he has committed, like that time we played a 500-point game and he had 800 points of Eldar fielded. If that wasn't funny enough, I still won. With Orks.

**Frazzled**

Time for the Modquisition to put this thread out of its misery. So much blood!