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Tell me how horrible this army is....

Bloodthirster with Unholy Might & Blessing
Bloodthirster with Unholy Might & Blessing

(8)BloodCrushers

(5)Bloodletters w/Icon
(5)Bloodletters
(5)Bloodletters

Daemonprince of Khorne w/Flight, Iron hide, unholy might
Daemonprince of Khorne w/Flight, Iron hide, unholy might
Daemonprince of Khorne w/Flight, Iron hide, unholy might

=1750

I think this is about as nasty as straight Khorne can get, maybe instead go all bloodcrushers but then the Landraiders can run you easy. Maybe if I go daemons I'll HAVE to diversify into other factions.

Oh, my Khorne, I feel terrible. I don't have anything better to say than it looks good and fluffy! I'm not contributing anything to the post, I know, but I can not find any wise comment to do

Well, I´ll try.

There is a lack of long ranged antitank, but that´s one of the main weakness of Chaos Daemons. Anyways, with 5 flying MC, you have a really solid answer to that problem.

I agree with you, if you are going Pure Khorne, something like this would the right way to go.

The only thing I don't see really clear is the troop choices... What about bigger units? Yeah, I suppose they are just for holding objectives, but you should need more small units (that costing more KPs), or bigger ones (to be more durable). 5+ (or cover) is not really that good for 15 R4 minis.

Don't know, I think the theme is right, 5 Khorne MC, and minimun troops (Chaos Nidzillas, lol). But I feel I´m missing more troops... What about forgetting about the bloodcrushers? They are cool (and fluffy), but one unit wont save the day.

In the other hand, the other obvious way to go fluffy Khorne, should be 6 units of 20 Bloodletters and whatever you find points for. This seem like the Chaos poor version of Ork hordes. Really good in CC, but really slow too. I really like your idea of maximizing flying

I think you'd need to mix in some other non-khorne units to make daemons most effective in tourney play. However the all khorne route is fun.

Why don't you change the 3 daemon princes for 3 Soul Grinders with tongue. It will give you some badly needed anti-tank ranged firepower and also give you something to try and tank down a Monolith with. The points you save can go into the troops catagory. Bloodletters are great taking down meq's just like the princes would be. Two units of 4 bloodcrushers might be better. I know KP missions and all, but it just might be better.

The 2 Bloodthirsters are powerful. I like 40kenthusist's 4 khorne heralds on chariots. I think they are one of the best buys in the game. For 85pts you have a 4 wound, 3+/5+, str + toughness 5 power weapon freak. Four of them are 340pts and saves you 210pts from the HQ section.

Consider this at 1740pts for all Khorne:

Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot

El - 4 Bloodcrushers
El - 3 Bloodcrushers

Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters

Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue
Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue
Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue

Sorry, I don't know the Chaos Codex, but how can you have 4 HQ choices?

In the daemon codex, heralds are like 1/2th an hq choice. Up to 2 of them count as 1 hq choice.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Consider this at 1740pts for all Khorne:

Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot

El - 4 Bloodcrushers
El - 3 Bloodcrushers

Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters

Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue
Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue
Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue

I like the idea of 4 Heralds on Chariot, but I have doubts with Soulgrinders. They are only three vehicles, and that is always a Weakness. Yeah, they provide anti-tank, but Winged princes can do a good antintanking role too.

In this list would discard the bloodcrushers and I´ll give more bodies to that 4 troops units. That means 2 less KP, and more durability for the Blood letters. I would even think on taking 3 bigger units instead of the 4 you propose.

HQ:

Bloodthirster - unholy might - 265
skulltaker - chariot - 160
herald of khorne - death strike, unholy might, chariot - 115

Elite:

5 bloodcrushers - 200

Troop:

11 blodletters - 176
11 blodletters - 176
11 blodletters - 176

Heavy:

soulgrinder - tongue 160
soulgrinder - phlegm 160
soulgrinder - phlegm 160

1,748 points

nice ammount of ranged attacks, troops, nice hitting power.
just a suggestion though.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Why don't you change the 3 daemon princes for 3 Soul Grinders with tongue. It will give you some badly needed anti-tank ranged firepower and also give you something to try and tank down a Monolith with. The points you save can go into the troops catagory. Bloodletters are great taking down meq's just like the princes would be. Two units of 4 bloodcrushers might be better. I know KP missions and all, but it just might be better.

The 2 Bloodthirsters are powerful. I like 40kenthusist's 4 khorne heralds on chariots. I think they are one of the best buys in the game. For 85pts you have a 4 wound, 3+/5+, str + toughness 5 power weapon freak. Four of them are 340pts and saves you 210pts from the HQ section.

Consider this at 1740pts for all Khorne:

Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot
Hq - Herald on chariot

El - 4 Bloodcrushers
El - 3 Bloodcrushers

Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters
Tr - 10 Bloodletters

Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue
Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue
Hv - Soul Grinder w/ tongue

Funny thing here is, the list posted actually has LESS anti-tank than the MC list. Dont forget, the Bloodthirsters posted are STR 9 on the charge thanx to furious charge. They should easily be able to make short work of any Monoliths.

Not sure if giving one of the Bloodthirsters up is a good Idea for two heralds. Thats a lot of str 9 MC attacks on the charge to give up, but it's definatly something to consider.

I'm sort of surprised that noone came out and simply said my list totally sucked. (no thats not an invite! )

I do like the idea of the list above, but it seems that against any sort of armour its REALLY sorely lacking.

the thing is that it will be very hard to kill 5 MC's in the turn they drop, and every MC will kill everything they come across in CC.

The MC's will hopefully be able to hold out until the Bloodcrushers and bloodletters start dropping in and take objectives.

this is a good Chaos list, and actually much better (I think) than the standard tzeench lest that is floating around nowadays.

My only concern with this list is that the bloodcrushers are a little redundant in this army. The 5MC's can really take down just about anything in CC and live though the initial drop to get into CC. there is no need for a non-scoring elite unit crushing unit, as the MC's will crush anything you need them to crush.

So I would take out the blood crushers in favor of adding a 9 man unit of bloodletters and beefing up the other three units to units of 8 for more scoring units.

I think that would do better in a tounament setting.

but the list is a good one.

I would hate to get a 275pt Bloodthirster rapid fired by a unit of Sternguard and forced to make 11 3+ saves. Yikes!! Better to make that an 85pt herald which has 3 other friends who can jump on the sternguard.

Str 9 Bloodthirsters are are hitting Monoliths on 4's and rolling only 1 die for armor penetration right? That makes it difficult for them to bring the big pyramid down. Versus armor that's not Land raider or Monoliths, the entire Khorne army strikes the rear armor in HtH. That means Bloodcrushers and heralds are hitting Leman Russ's with a str 6 on their armor 10 rear. More than enough power to tank armor down. The Bloodletters are hittng rear armor with a str of 5. If it's skimmers moving fast you are worried about, then Soul Grinders can shoot them.

About the only thing the non-MC Daemon list can't handle well are dreadnoughts. A few rending models spread around would help, but MC daemons are still superior against the dreadnoughts.

But hey, give the list a try. I'd be interested in hearing how it does. I've read 40kenthuesist have success with the heralds and soul grinders so I know it works. Maybe the khorne MC list could work to.

DarthDiggler wrote:I would hate to get a 275pt Bloodthirster rapid fired by a unit of Sternguard and forced to make 11 3+ saves. Yikes!! Better to make that an 85pt herald which has 3 other friends who can jump on the sternguard.

that's just one unit out of just a few that have a chance at taking out a bloodthirster in one round. and if the bloodthirster survives, that 275 point sternguard unit is dead dead dead.

Str 9 Bloodthirsters are are hitting Monoliths on 4's and rolling only 1 die for armor penetration right? That makes it difficult for them to bring the big pyramid down. Versus armor that's not Land raider or Monoliths, the entire Khorne army strikes the rear armor in HtH. That means Bloodcrushers and heralds are hitting Leman Russ's with a str 6 on their armor 10 rear. More than enough power to tank armor down. The Bloodletters are hittng rear armor with a str of 5. If it's skimmers moving fast you are worried about, then Soul Grinders can shoot them.

Monoliths are difficult for anything to take down, and honestly if you are charging the monolith and not the necrons, you are fighting a loosing game. kill the necrons, not the monolith. However a Bloothirster has like, 5 attacks, which mean around 3 will hit, and three dice is a pretty goo chance for a pen, which is much better than most anything else to kill a monolith.

But again, kill the necrons in CC, not the monolith.

About the only thing the non-MC Daemon list can't handle well are dreadnoughts. A few rending models spread around would help, but MC daemons are still superior against the dreadnoughts.

But hey, give the list a try. I'd be interested in hearing how it does. I've read 40kenthuesist have success with the heralds and soul grinders so I know it works. Maybe the khorne MC list could work to.

what the MC demon list does well is surviving the first round of shooting.

a large horde of daemons with the points from the 5 MCs will also survive the initial DS, it's more the AT abilities of the MCs I see the difference in, BLs are super killy and so are BCs

DarthDiggler wrote:I would hate to get a 275pt Bloodthirster rapid fired by a unit of Sternguard and forced to make 11 3+ saves. Yikes!! Better to make that an 85pt herald which has 3 other friends who can jump on the sternguard.

You can't live in fear of a single unit in the game. Whatever the sternguard manage to take out, I'm sure this list would have 3 MC's left to go demolish....

Str 9 Bloodthirsters are are hitting Monoliths on 4's and rolling only 1 die for armor penetration right? That makes it difficult for them to bring the big pyramid down. Versus armor that's not Land raider or Monoliths, the entire Khorne army strikes the rear armor in HtH. That means Bloodcrushers and heralds are hitting Leman Russ's with a str 6 on their armor 10 rear. More than enough power to tank armor down. The Bloodletters are hittng rear armor with a str of 5. If it's skimmers moving fast you are worried about, then Soul Grinders can shoot them.

Arent we demanding? Looking for better than multiple str9 hits to down the monolith?

Improvement?

Thirster with Blessing/Might
Thirster with Blessing/Might

10 Bloodletters 1w/Fury
8 Bloodletters 1w/Fury
8 Bloodletters 1w/Fury
8 Bloodletters 1w/Fury

Prince w/Flight, Hide, Might
Prince w/Flight, Hide, Might
Prince w/Flight, Hide, Might

Fury for those times that you might go for the Hail Mary on a LR type vehicle or dread.

The more I look at this list, the more wonderfully simplistic it seems.

go test it out, if those BLs get across the board they are sure to kill something. Watch out for anything which negates the power weapons of them though.

and now you have 4 scoring units and bigger so they are more likely to survive, I likes. I dunno about that hail mary option, can always play it and see.

3 Soul Grinders run together real well, i always had 1 running round on the field at the end of the game normally (in 1750 PT games) normally having the other 2 immobilized

Test it out. The Daemon Prince has the same base line stats as the Herald on Chariot. Both are toughness 5 with a 3+/5+. Both are str 6 on the charge with no saves. The Herald has more attacks and only costs less than half of the DP (200pts-85pts), but Dreads eat the Heralds in combat. Try it out. I have yet to hear of any success with Daemon Princes in a daemon army, I would like to see it work.

Keep in mind, the Soulgrinders are actually better anti-tank than the Princes or Thirsters against Monoliths! S10, yes please. They also add nice shooting the army that it currently lacks. I'm pretty sure they're not MCs too, but I can't remember.

DPs = MCs and they own, especially if given BoC, and who cares about liths...phase out the rest of the army.

I think your first list was better to be honest. Yes it was low on troops, but 8 bloodcrushers will not die. Also, I know you want a khorne theme, but Mark of Nurgle on those DPs will make this list WAY stronger. Anyway, other than that, I am building toward a similar list, it looks strong.

yeah, seriously, who cares about killing monoliths?

it's a losing strategy.

tzeentchling wrote:Keep in mind, the Soulgrinders are actually better anti-tank than the Princes or Thirsters against Monoliths! S10, yes please. They also add nice shooting the army that it currently lacks. I'm pretty sure they're not MCs too, but I can't remember.

Not that monoliths really matter...

Soulgrinder- range 24" 1xstr10 ap1 shot hitting on 4+

Bloodthirster-range 18" (flight) 6x str 9 hitting on 4+ or maybe auto-hit

I dont see Soulgrinders as being better at downing monoliths. I also dont really see their shooting as being THAT scary, not at BS 3. This list will do way more damage in HtH than SG's do by shooting.

In your first list, find a way to turn the 15 bloodletters into 2x 8 bloodletters and you'll be more fluffy.

Unfortunately, all anyone has to do is kill your 'letters and then you can only win by tabling them in objective games. It's risky to run that few troops. Maybe also try 2x 4 Bloodcrushers, or even 1x 4, and use the rest of the points to beef up the letter squads and add icons.

Oh, and if you can find a way, instrument of chaos on your BT's and DP's is just gravy.

I think the low BS on SG is to make using phlegm not too OP and hit all the time, they want it to scatter some.

Deadshane, I was referring to close combat! Against monoliths, Grinders still have S10, which is better than any of your MCs can do, even Thirsters. Give the Grinders phlegm and if needed charge the large tanks.

Ahh, I thought you were talking about shooting.

Still WS 3 in CC against other stuff though and no wings....

I think the bloodthirsters cover any tasks that a SG is needed for.

Still, they ARE cheaper than the DP's....

Deadshane1 wrote:Improvement?

Thirster with Blessing/Might
Thirster with Blessing/Might

10 Bloodletters 1w/Fury
8 Bloodletters 1w/Fury
8 Bloodletters 1w/Fury
8 Bloodletters 1w/Fury

Prince w/Flight, Hide, Might
Prince w/Flight, Hide, Might
Prince w/Flight, Hide, Might

Yeah, this look better!
What about 6 minimum units of bloodletters? It should be not really hard to hide them with the MCs... Just an idea, maybe a bad one

The problem with MC is they are devastating against Heavy Armour Vehicles in CC ONLY when they haven't move at maximum speed. Hitting 1 of 6 attacks, would be bad, and LR now can move 12 and keep firing... Actually monolith IS easier to take down in CC than firing at him (being immune to a lot of stuff, and moving only 6), but with LR this is completely the opposite.

I'm going to stick my 02 cents in here to argue against the MC's. The thirsters and flying Princes are paying a lot of points for mobility in a list that deep strikes.

I think you'd be better off with going Bloodthirsters & Soul Grinders. The flying princes are really too expensive for what they can accomplish, and having the pie plates (S10 BS3 doesn't really inspire confidence) really forces your opponent to spread out, which is what you need with your HTH troops. The bloodthirsters, with their T6, wings, and 3+/4+ are pretty much worth the points they cost, especially since they're WS10 (and thus hit by WS4 on a 5+), but the princes are only 3+/5+, T5, and only WS7.

Soul Grinders can be one-shot killed...but at the same time, 66% of glancing hits and 33% of penetrating hits do NOTHING to them. 13/13/11 armor makes them very tough in HTH as well, and the fact they have fleet gives them surprising speed.

I'll also echo the Bloodcrusher recs. Bloodcrushers do amazing things, survive ridiculous amounts of firepower, and kill almost anything they touch in HTH. 4 Bloodcrushers /w Fury are 170 points, and will defeat nearly anything in HTH. I5 S6 power weapons on the charge.