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Please note pg 13 of the Necron Codex under Phase Out. If after making all We'll Be Back rolls a Necron army is reduced to 25% or less of its Original number of models(in other words 75% of its models rounding fractions up are destroyed) it will dissapear in an eerie fashion, leaving behind nothing of its presence. This gives an AUTOMATIC VICTORY TO THE ENEMY REGARDLESS OF THE VICTORY CONDITIONS OF THE SCENARIO BEING PLAYED. * it goes on to give an example*

you folks must pardon my association with the following wording from the main rulebook

Page 90: Wipeout!
REGARDLESS OF VICTORY CONDITIONS, If at the end of any STANDARD mission your enemy has no units left on the table, you win the game.

caps are mine to stress my interpretation.

so how many points if these are achieved?

20 points possible per game?

As always, it depends on the tournament, so check with the tournament organizer.


Most tournaments I've been to offer maximum points if you achieve a wipeout or phase-out.

I agree with checking with the TO.

But I don't agree on necessarily getting full points. The points are used to determine rankings for overall victory, and if you didn't claim an objective, I don't see how it can be said that you earned it, while someone on another table did take the objective while wiping out his opponent.

The rule you mentioned does say you get an automatic victory, it doesn't say you get full points, or that you're given credit for objectives you didn't achieve.

However, there are no enemy units there to stop you from acheiving your objectives. It's just pointless to continue the game so you can move your troops to take those objectives.

Games over, you didn't achieve them. There are no more turns.

Otherwise, by your argument, you're encouraging people to be as completely abusive as possible, show up and completely wipe out their opponent without paying any attention whatsoever to the mission scenario and victory conditions, because they'll just be given those automatically. As opposed to the guy on the next table who did get the objectives, while tabling his/her opponent.

I'd say it gives "major victory" points, unless you were currently satisfying the conditions of a Massacre. Whichever was higher.

dancingcricket wrote:Games over, you didn't achieve them. There are no more turns.

Otherwise, by your argument, you're encouraging people to be as completely abusive as possible, show up and completely wipe out their opponent without paying any attention whatsoever to the mission scenario and victory conditions, because they'll just be given those automatically. As opposed to the guy on the next table who did get the objectives, while tabling his/her opponent.

Well, 'Wipeout!' doesn't occur until the end of the game, so a player would have the maximum amount of time to capture any objectives.

Phase-out can occur early in a game and it kind of sucks if you phase-out your opponent and the game ends before you can capture the remaining objectives, which is why most T.O.s award full points in this case.

A player shouldn't be penalized because he was too effective in destroying the enemy.

If the tournament rules give you full VPs or whatever for tabling your opponent then why should phasing them out be any different? You are infact, tabling them. Because an army has a special rule like the Necron's Phases Out doesn't mean they should get some sort of special immunity to this.

If your whole enemy is gone, then the combatant who remains captures the field and can go claim objectives after the battle at their leisure. So, giving a player who tables their opponent full VPs is pretty reasonable. Completely annihilating your enemy has always been a valid tactic, it's usually easier to go "claim objectives" than smash your forces together looking for a total victory in the turn and time limit of a tournament.

The short answer: If you don't like how the Necron's Phase Out rule effects you in tournaments, don't play your Necrons in tournaments.

Please note pg 13 of the Necron Codex under Phase Out. If after making all We'll Be Back rolls a Necron army is reduced to 25% or less of its Original number of models(in other words 75% of its models rounding fractions up are destroyed) it will dissapear in an eerie fashion, leaving behind nothing of its presence. This gives an AUTOMATIC VICTORY TO THE ENEMY REGARDLESS OF THE VICTORY CONDITIONS OF THE SCENARIO BEING PLAYED. * it goes on to give an example*

Page 90: Wipeout!
REGARDLESS OF VICTORY CONDITIONS, If at the end of any STANDARD mission your enemy has no units left on the table, you win the game.


for those with difficulties.
Victory conditions = those things in the scenario that generate points thus giving you victory.

pardon my repetitive statements but i tend to just stick with rules when there is an attempt to go to free roaming radical ideas.

odinsspear45 wrote:...pardon my repetitive statements but i tend to just stick with rules when there is an attempt to go to free roaming radical ideas.

you're a republican aren't you?

in all cases its up to the tournament organiser. ive been to tounament where they have given them maximum points for the round, tounaments where they have given them something less and tounament where they have said they should play out the rest of the turn to see if they can capture any further objectives (completely pointless in my view).

Technically, you could achieve a "Wipeout" prior to the last turn as well. A bit harder playing against Non-Necron armies, but still possible.



Clay

Definetely check with the TO before you begin the game. Can't stress that enough. I've been burned before.

yakface wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:Games over, you didn't achieve them. There are no more turns.

Otherwise, by your argument, you're encouraging people to be as completely abusive as possible, show up and completely wipe out their opponent without paying any attention whatsoever to the mission scenario and victory conditions, because they'll just be given those automatically. As opposed to the guy on the next table who did get the objectives, while tabling his/her opponent.

Well, 'Wipeout!' doesn't occur until the end of the game, so a player would have the maximum amount of time to capture any objectives.

Phase-out can occur early in a game and it kind of sucks if you phase-out your opponent and the game ends before you can capture the remaining objectives, which is why most T.O.s award full points in this case.

A player shouldn't be penalized because he was too effective in destroying the enemy.

Could it be the case however that you are actually not penalizing the more effective player? If Player A is Necrons and Player B is Marines and lets say the game proceeds along in a rather bloody fashion with all the but one of Player B's marines getting dropped and 74% of the Player A's Necrons dropping. At that point the Player A appears to clearly be winning and perhaps holds several objectives while the Player B holds none. Then on the Player B's last turn, regardless of the turn number, he manages to drop one more Necron, hitting the magic 75% mark, and then unluckily for Player A he phases out. Which Player is truely getting penalized in this case if maximum/minimum points are awarded?

If I phase Necrons on turn 1, I should get maximum points for doing so, regardless of whether I've left my DZ or even have all of my models on the board.

If you don't like that, don't play Necrons.

In all the Tournaments I have run since the Necron Codex release, if you make them Phase out, you get full points for the game.

In all the Tournaments I have run since the Necron Codex release, if you make them Phase out, you get full points for the game.

same here.
out of 4 wins against them ive phased them out 3 times, 4th would have, but got caught up in revenge against nightbringer :K (not a good idea)

I would think in VP or KP missions, you would receive the difference between your kills (the whole Necron army) and your losses (what it took to kill the Necrons). On objective missions, you would receive objectives equal to the number of objectives your remaining troops could take. So if the Necron player saw he was going to phase out and killed all your troops, you couldn't capture the objectives either.

Homer

I think this is easy to figure out for KP missions, since the bonus points are usually awarded for wiping out specific areas of the FOC.

in objective missions I'd say you score a massacre (you can take the rest unchallenged) but bonus points would have to be specific.

however, I would ask the tournament organizer to look at the situation first. just to make sure the necron player didn't deliberately put himself into a position to phase out, in order to stop you from gaining bonus points.

e.x. you are going 2nd during the game. in the 4th turn, you push him right to the edge of phase out. during his 5th turn, he realizes that you cannot claim the bonus point for having both HQ within 6" of an objective at the end of the game, unless you have another turn to move. so he charges his units into close combat with things that will kill them, in order to force a phaseout on his turn, thus denying you the ability to move again and get the bonus point.

in that kind of situation, I think the winning player SHOULD get the bonus point. but if it was impossible to do within that single turn, then I would say no they don't get the point

NaZ

dancingcricket wrote:Games over, you didn't achieve them. There are no more turns.

Otherwise, by your argument, you're encouraging people to be as completely abusive as possible, show up and completely wipe out their opponent without paying any attention whatsoever to the mission scenario and victory conditions, because they'll just be given those automatically. As opposed to the guy on the next table who did get the objectives, while tabling his/her opponent.

So? Your also encouraging people to be as abusive as possible. Claiming that if you kill the last obstacle to claiming all of your objectives means that you can't claim them because the game ends is abusive in the extreme.

NaZ wrote:in that kind of situation, I think the winning player SHOULD get the bonus point.

but if it was impossible to do within that single turn, then I would say no they don't get the point

No, if you force phaseout, you get maximum points, end of discussion. That's the whole point of phaseout.

Necrons have a big advantage in numbers and survivability, deliberately undercosted for their toughness. Phaseout balances for that.

Just because you force phase out doesn't mean you should get all the bonus points. Massacre points yes, but sometimes the bonus points are things like "+1 point if all of YOUR HQ survived the battle."

You can acheive wipe-out and still not get max points.

I would agree there.. its really scenario specific. like holding all 5 objectives or something. if you only have 3 surviving troops choices on the board at the time of phase out, how would it even be possible to gain that bonus point?

or like budro said. +1 if all your HQ survive. well if 1 of them died you shouldn't get that point.

I think the organizers hould award them IF they were possible (depends on situation)
and not award them if impossible (depends on situation)

with the caveat that if the necron player did something to deliberately screw his opponent out of those bonus points because he was going to phase out, then the necron player would be penalized and the opponent would automatically get max bonus points.

NaZ

Primarch wrote:Technically, you could achieve a "Wipeout" prior to the last turn as well. A bit harder playing against Non-Necron armies, but still possible.

No it's actually not possible. Check out the rules for 'wipeout':

Page 90: Wipeout!
REGARDLESS OF VICTORY CONDITIONS, If at the end of any STANDARD mission your enemy has no units left on the table, you win the game.

Even if you kill every opposing model, you still play to the end of the game. If the opponent has no enemy units at the end of the game THEN (and only then) is it a 'wipeout'.

the way i have played it in a tournament is that if you phase them out say by turn 4 - 5 you score maximum points as you can spend the remaining few turns moving into position to grab said objectives, however say if you wipe them out by turn 7 and only have 1 objective for example you only score for the objectives you actually hold as the game ends there without you being able to move onto the objectives "within the battles time limit", in some games where i have wiped opponents out i purposely don't take too many objectives so i dont shoot so far up the tables and play the people with the really really hard army lists giving me a better chance at qualification if i spend my entire tournament in around the table 20's for example, however i think the way we play it seems the most fairest in the tournament scenario at least