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Watching two friends play yesterday and a question came up.

Three Meganobz combi-skorch a unit of Black Templars with Initiates (3+ save) and Neophytes (4+ save).

13 wounds are rolled against the unit and the BT player allocates them on the unit. He puts the first 3 on the 3 neophytes, who don't get a save against the AP 4 skorcha wound. He puts 7 on the Initiates, who do get a save against it. Then he wraps around again and allocates more AP 4 wounds on the Neophytes.

We looked in the rulebook and it seems as if this is how you do it. But then I thought, "So, the three wounds count for nothing?!"

If the Neophytes would die from one AP 4 wound, how the heck can you put additional ones on them and not have the Initiates take those saves?!



- Blackbone

Blackbone wrote:Watching two friends play yesterday and a question came up.

Three Meganobz combi-skorch a unit of Black Templars with Initiates (3+ save) and Neophytes (4+ save).

13 wounds are rolled against the unit and the BT player allocates them on the unit. He puts the first 3 on the 3 neophytes, who don't get a save against the AP 4 skorcha wound. He puts 7 on the Initiates, who do get a save against it. Then he wraps around again and allocates more AP 4 wounds on the Neophytes.

We looked in the rulebook and it seems as if this is how you do it. But then I thought, "So, the three wounds count for nothing?!"

If the Neophytes would die from one AP 4 wound, how the heck can you put additional ones on them and not have the Initiates take those saves?!



- Blackbone

Because the wounds happen all at the same time and before saves happen. He can allocate them to the Neophytes again because they haven't died to AP4 wounds yet. So three wounds seem to "count for nothing", but only because it's 6 AP4 wounds on 3 models with 4+ Armour.

Yeah, what he said.

Me no likey that rule. Thanks for the clarification, though.

- Blackbone

It works both ways, really. On one hand, sometimes you'll have 'wasted' wounds. On the other hand, sometimes your opponent will lose their powerfist and their lascannon and their bolters will live. It's just a different way of doing it.

Well, in the diagram on pg 25 of the BRB, a melta wound is allocated to a SM first and later two bolter wounds are added to the model. As the melta kills the SM instantly, the bolter shots are likewise wasted. Sometimes wounds will be wasted due to wound consolidation, that is just how the system works. As Redbeard pointed out though, you do have the chance of killing hidden special weapons now which is nice.

I'll point out that this makes perfect sense realistically. Its just overkill is all.

It is at least as realistic as assuming each and every deadly wound will hit a different model....

its far worse when someone is smart about it

like when I take my manz, 3 with skorcha 3 without. you do 6 wounds. I split it into 2 groups of 3.. failing 2 (one on each) I don't lose any models because they have different wargear and have to be tracked seperately

NaZ

Redbeard wrote:It works both ways, really. On one hand, sometimes you'll have 'wasted' wounds. On the other hand, sometimes your opponent will lose their powerfist and their lascannon and their bolters will live. It's just a different way of doing it.

I don't get what you mean here RB, how can your opponent lose their better weapons while leaving the bolters on the table? Surely because the unit's owner gets to choose where the wounds go, he would allocate all of the most damaging (no armour save etc) wounds on the models with weaker weapons?

Because if that dual lightning claw assault sergeant rolls a 1, he dies regardless of what did the wound.

Darn it! If Abadabadoo can take horus' lightningclaw when he died, why can't my aspiring Private Bob take one from a dead sgt.? If it's good enough for the forces of evil, it's good enough for me!

Well Abaddon happened to have a couple of millenia to practice with it.

Kaej wrote:

Redbeard wrote:It works both ways, really. On one hand, sometimes you'll have 'wasted' wounds. On the other hand, sometimes your opponent will lose their powerfist and their lascannon and their bolters will live. It's just a different way of doing it.

I don't get what you mean here RB, how can your opponent lose their better weapons while leaving the bolters on the table? Surely because the unit's owner gets to choose where the wounds go, he would allocate all of the most damaging (no armour save etc) wounds on the models with weaker weapons?

If you have enough wounds to 'wrap around' sure, you can pile all the nastiest shots on the models you mind losing the least, but that also means every other model in the unit is rolling saves, and if your upgrades or special weapons blow their save, you lose them.

I personally love the wound wrap. I killed 2 power fists and 2 melta guns in a game this last weekend thanks to a lot of wounds from stealth suit shooting.

Can some things get wasted? Yes, does this allow you get to a wound on the Lascannon in a 5-man Marine squad and have a 1/3 chance at killing it early? Yes.

All about balance and I'll take it.

NaZ wrote:its far worse when someone is smart about it

like when I take my manz, 3 with skorcha 3 without. you do 6 wounds. I split it into 2 groups of 3.. failing 2 (one on each) I don't lose any models because they have different wargear and have to be tracked seperately

NaZ

Not quite as bad as someone I played with an ork biker squad where every last member had different wargear. So each one got assigned seperately, at one point I had a single wound on 7 different ones. Man that was annoying.

it has its ups and downs, but nothing is more amusing than shooting a marine tac squad and killing thier heavy and special weapons and possibly thier Sgt

on the flip side, nothing is more annoying than causing 15 wounds on a Dev squad and only killing a guy with a bolter -_-

It's kind of like the neophyte dying 4 times before he hits the ground, cut up into little pieces.