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So, i may soon be coming into possession of a metric ton of eldar models... That being the case I have been browsing the dex. How do you think the following list would do? Is it the cheddar or is it fake velveeta?

This should be about 1750

HQ
Eldrad... of course
Autarch, bike, lance, reaper launcher

ELITE
10 X banshees, exarch, big speary thing, serpent with scatter lasers

TROOPS
10 x dire avengers, exarch, 2xshuriken catapults, blade storm, serpent with scater lasers
10 x dire avengers, exarch, 2xshuriken catapults, blade storm, serpent with scater lasers
10 x dire avengers, exarch, 2xshuriken catapults, blade storm, serpent with scater lasers

HEAVY
Fire Prism
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

The plan is to shoot stuff real good with the prisms at range (think table edge). The avengers sit in their serpents and shoot at 36" and try to stay away from anything overly nasty. The avengers jump out an shoot stuff at the end. The banshees assault things/contest objectives. The autarch ruuns around pelting people with the reaper launcher until the end and then assaults...His big taget will be long ranged weapons squads like devs.and perhaps vehicles.

Basically, it's an army of "oh, please stay away from us!"

ender502

i would consider holofields for you prisms, even two as you will want one prism to stay out of thier LOS but have LOS to one of your prisms for extra str + AP on your prism shots other than that it looks good, i might consider dropping the banshees for something else prehaps a squad of shining spears to run with your autarch and a unit of guardian jetbikes with a warlock/destructor and a shuriken cannon to make an effective shooting unit at stuff in cover plus a late game objective grabber

99MDeery wrote:i would consider holofields for you prisms, even two as you will want one prism to stay out of thier LOS but have LOS to one of your prisms for extra str + AP on your prism shots other than that it looks good, i might consider dropping the banshees for something else prehaps a squad of shining spears to run with your autarch and a unit of guardian jetbikes with a warlock/destructor and a shuriken cannon to make an effective shooting unit at stuff in cover plus a late game objective grabber

Any points I need would most certainly come from dropping the banshees in favor of other stuff. Right now I am prettyy much maxed on points but... Point taken on the holofields... i'll try to find som epoints for them.

Your suggestions are good ones but don't fit in so well with "stay away from me!"... The spears are great but need to be close to work.

I can see the potential for a bunch of jet bikes units replacing one of my units. But which one? I'd hate to lose all CC potential from the list by dropping the banshees...but i'd also hate to lose the delicious 18" bladestorm.... decisions...decisions...

ender502

A lonely Autarch on a jetbike asks for getting annihilated at first sight. Let him join the Banshee squad. The rest looks good. Holofields are not a must have in this list.

Replace Banshees with harlequins.

Don't worry, alot of players are running banshees as 'counts as' Harlequins.

Nerfbat + moneybat swings both ways.

This list faces major challenges, in the words of the OP, it is crap. Heres why:

(1)Fireprisms (and generally all Eldar tanks) are JUNK:

ACCURACY: Fire prisms have gone from the MOST accurate Eldar tank to the least accurate, an Eldar player can not count on their firepower anymore, one will need all 3 to get even one accurate hit on average, not worth 360+ points.

CC VULNERABILITY: Edging with Fireprisms is no longer a decent tactic because of outflank, outflanking units can easily kill these tanks if they are within 12 inches of a board edge, making their operation theatre very narrow.

MOBILITY ISSUES: Eldar tanks with low armor 12 are very vulnerable to everything as if they move fast enough to get a decent save, they dont shoot, effectively they stun themselves these days. If they slow down to fire they get penetrated with no save, if they skirt the board edges and corners of the board to avoid range they are vulnerable to assaulters outflanking...

LOW ARMOR: AV12, is a sucker for even autocannon fire, Eldar tanks are easy to drop, especially without holofields, Lascannon on a 3+....

WAVESERPENTS: Most of things that apply to the Fireprism apply to the waveserpent as well, easy to kill, cant move and use its own firepower, to expensive, 100+ point transports? For what? Moving Avengers...?

(2) Dire Avengers are Junk

Dire Avengers are only bad at 2 things, Shooting and close combat, esentially they are uped guardians (who arent even worth painting) with a weapon that forces them to get into a range where their softness in CC is a major risk, Yes, some shock value may be had from the bladestorm mega shot but ods are the transports will be down before that can be capitalized on much or you will be versus an opponent who can weather it. Avengers in CC are embarassed by just about everything. Furthermore they have ZERO antitank Capacity, no grenades, no S4, and NO AT or high AP weapons of anykind, Their bladestorm power looks good on paper but it actually just costs them half of their firepower in the turn where they reload and don't shoot. Maybe if they are lucky they can kill someone important with wound allocation, but maybe not, its a 300+ points unit for about 12 wounding AP5 hits once...

(3) Banshees are junk

Banshees are T3 4 saves, they are just waiting for a blast of just about anything to kill them, rhino based bolter units, or drop pods with a heavy flamer or razorbacks, or sisters, or any sort of artillery kill them on 2 or 3s to wound, without the veil the harlequins get, and in the advent of true LOS, these troops just never make it anywhere to take advantage of their CC abilities because they are to weak.

(4) Autarch is,....

An autarch looks good on Paper too with a Launcher and a Lance, but he is a complete wimp in CC after the first round as he does not hit and run, after the benefit of the lance is gone he is just a S3 model with no skills. I built 2 of these and in my experience they are really disapointing. In 5th if they stand back and fire with the reaper they become easy KP and the jetbike they have is then essentially wasted because they can't move, reaper is heavy!

Some overall thoughts:

This army is woefully underpowered against high AV and High AP, it has almost no antitank capacity. Relying on tanks with arrow dice to hit for AT work is a recipe for disaster, no grenades no meltaguns, no S4 assault troops it's in trouble.

This army has almost no assault capability, this will make it a real challenge to take objectives.

This army is very mobile, probably the one shining point in the army is that the list will move pretty fast, helping to mitigate the lack of assault units for objective taking, probably a wash in those games.

This army is 12 KP, about average, probably has a fighting chance in KP games, vs opponents with no armor.


The army relies on ELdar tank Spam, a Tactic that has been made obsolete by the skimmer rules for no glancing all the time and 6s to hit in CC being removed. It just doesnt work anymore.

This army lacks a place for Eldrad to hide, what squad will he go with? The banshees crossing the board alone? Hide by himself somewhere? Could be difficult.

A rhino based (or drop pod) imperial army will embarass this list consistently. A godzilla nid list will give this army no end of headaches, basically any competative build will destroy this list.

"Basically, it's an army of "oh, please stay away from us!"

OK Do you think 3 Prism cannons a reaper launcher and 3 Multilasers can outshoot.... anyone?

This list is very pretty and well themed for the Eldar, I bet it would look fantastic.

I suggest if you haven't bought this yet, don't, or at least be sure you get a really good deal.

wuestenfux wrote:A lonely Autarch on a jetbike asks for getting annihilated at first sight. Let him join the Banshee squad. The rest looks good. Holofields are not a must have in this list.

I can see that. I am minda mixed on it though.. I am falling into the trap mauleed mentioned all thos eyears ago... mistaking a model I like for a model that is effective on the field.

Stelek wrote:Replace Banshees with harlequins.

Don't worry, alot of players are running banshees as 'counts as' Harlequins.

Nerfbat + moneybat swings both ways.

And I thought you "iggy'ed" me! The harlies are way better than the banshees... but without transport I wonder. I have no falcons so.... Also, reducing the total 3 of vehicles dramatically reduces the redundancy that is one of the core strengths of a mechdar list.

So, serious question... what's better, banshees in a serpent (more armor is good) or harlies on foot (the superior HTH unit and veil)?

ender502

So, serious question... what's better, banshees in a serpent (more armor is good) or harlies on foot (the superior HTH unit and veil)?

Harlies on foot are vulnerable to deep striking, teleporting, or drop podding units. They need to be shielded effectively.
I'd stay with the Banshees adding an Autarch with power weapon for extra punch.

I did. So when you're being a human being, you get talked to. When you aren't, you don't.

It's a beautiful thing.

The Harlies can run on foot behind the tanks as they advance.

It's not like anyone is really going to want to get near 3x DA units, even with stuff that can kill your harlequins...because that's not a good trade most of the time.

Also, if you want that reaper autarch, you need a safe place to put him. In with the Harlies is safe. Personally I'd drop all his kit out since it's unlikely he'll be doing anything useful even with a reaper launcher. For the points, you don't really get a whole lot other than +1 to reserve rolls.

Oh and not having bright lances on your serpents is bad. There's nothing wrong with Fire Prisms. Just don't fire them at enemy tanks unless you are twin-linking them to the S10 shot. Then they are just fine.

Turn a unit of dire avengers and serpent into a unit of bikes 6-9 big with as many shuricannons as possible and a warlock with conceal, destructor, or embolden.

And make the Banshees + serpent a unit of harlies with a shadow seer and kisses, troupe leader should have a power weapon.

Harlies foot slogging might not ft the list but they can't really ever been seen till they can assault you, and they're very fast.

Edit: you might want to look at 6 firedragons w/tank hunter and crackshot w/dragon's breath flamer in a falcon. They can be very effective.






ALSO. Ignore EVERYTHING Augustus had to say basically. He's a moron!

wuestenfux wrote:

So, serious question... what's better, banshees in a serpent (more armor is good) or harlies on foot (the superior HTH unit and veil)?

Harlies on foot are vulnerable to deep striking, teleporting, or drop podding units. They need to be shielded effectively.
I'd stay with the Banshees adding an Autarch with power weapon for extra punch.

Okay, another vote for 86'ing the bike. I can get behind that.

Stelek wrote:I did. So when you're being a human being, you get talked to. When you aren't, you don't.

It's a beautiful thing.

The Harlies can run on foot behind the tanks as they advance.

It's not like anyone is really going to want to get near 3x DA units, even with stuff that can kill your harlequins...because that's not a good trade most of the time.

Also, if you want that reaper autarch, you need a safe place to put him. In with the Harlies is safe. Personally I'd drop all his kit out since it's unlikely he'll be doing anything useful even with a reaper launcher. For the points, you don't really get a whole lot other than +1 to reserve rolls.

Oh and not having bright lances on your serpents is bad. There's nothing wrong with Fire Prisms. Just don't fire them at enemy tanks unless you are twin-linking them to the S10 shot. Then they are just fine.

I have the models so I will try the harllies as well as the banshees. I am terrified of sternguard pods rapid firing the heck out of them. Those guys are dropping outta the sky lately! Yes, it was a VERY bad pun.Taking a barely dressed autarch might add enough points for at least some lances. Armor does worry me with this list. The prisms aren't enough to deal with another mech list.

ender502

ALSO. Ignore EVERYTHING Augustus had to say basically. He's a moron!

There is some truth that lies in Augustus' words.

The Harlies can run on foot behind the tanks as they advance.

It's not like anyone is really going to want to get near 3x DA units, even with stuff that can kill your harlequins...because that's not a good trade most of the time.

Here I'm thinking about an army with 6 drop podded Dreads, with three of them dropped in the back field and three (with heavy flamers ) dropped in-between the Eldar phalanx.

Fortunes Harlies get hurt, but not destroyed, by drop pod dreads.

Besides, you keep everything off and let half the drop pods come in on turn 1 then move on away from them.

Harlies get 2 fusion guns and lots of rending attacks, they can surely do damage to a dread sitting in your deployment zone, yes?

Augustus wrote:This list faces major challenges, in the words of the OP, it is crap. Heres why:

(1)Fireprisms (and generally all Eldar tanks) are JUNK:

ACCURACY: Fire prisms have gone from the MOST accurate Eldar tank to the least accurate, an Eldar player can not count on their firepower anymore, one will need all 3 to get even one accurate hit on average, not worth 360+ points.

Augustus wrote:This list faces major challenges, in the words of the OP, it is crap. Heres why:

(1)Fireprisms (and generally all Eldar tanks) are JUNK:

ACCURACY: Fire prisms have gone from the MOST accurate Eldar tank to the least accurate, an Eldar player can not count on their firepower anymore, one will need all 3 to get even one accurate hit on average, not worth 360+ points.

CC VULNERABILITY: Edging with Fireprisms is no longer a decent tactic because of outflank, outflanking units can easily kill these tanks if they are within 12 inches of a board edge, making their operation theatre very narrow.

MOBILITY ISSUES: Eldar tanks with low armor 12 are very vulnerable to everything as if they move fast enough to get a decent save, they dont shoot, effectively they stun themselves these days. If they slow down to fire they get penetrated with no save, if they skirt the board edges and corners of the board to avoid range they are vulnerable to assaulters outflanking...

LOW ARMOR: AV12, is a sucker for even autocannon fire, Eldar tanks are easy to drop, especially without holofields, Lascannon on a 3+....

WAVESERPENTS: Most of things that apply to the Fireprism apply to the waveserpent as well, easy to kill, cant move and use its own firepower, to expensive, 100+ point transports? For what? Moving Avengers...?

(2) Dire Avengers are Junk

Dire Avengers are only bad at 2 things, Shooting and close combat, esentially they are uped guardians (who arent even worth painting) with a weapon that forces them to get into a range where their softness in CC is a major risk, Yes, some shock value may be had from the bladestorm mega shot but ods are the transports will be down before that can be capitalized on much or you will be versus an opponent who can weather it. Avengers in CC are embarassed by just about everything. Furthermore they have ZERO antitank Capacity, no grenades, no S4, and NO AT or high AP weapons of anykind, Their bladestorm power looks good on paper but it actually just costs them half of their firepower in the turn where they reload and don't shoot. Maybe if they are lucky they can kill someone important with wound allocation, but maybe not, its a 300+ points unit for about 12 wounding AP5 hits once...

(3) Banshees are junk

Banshees are T3 4 saves, they are just waiting for a blast of just about anything to kill them, rhino based bolter units, or drop pods with a heavy flamer or razorbacks, or sisters, or any sort of artillery kill them on 2 or 3s to wound, without the veil the harlequins get, and in the advent of true LOS, these troops just never make it anywhere to take advantage of their CC abilities because they are to weak.

(4) Autarch is,....

An autarch looks good on Paper too with a Launcher and a Lance, but he is a complete wimp in CC after the first round as he does not hit and run, after the benefit of the lance is gone he is just a S3 model with no skills. I built 2 of these and in my experience they are really disapointing. In 5th if they stand back and fire with the reaper they become easy KP and the jetbike they have is then essentially wasted because they can't move, reaper is heavy!

Some overall thoughts:

This army is woefully underpowered against high AV and High AP, it has almost no antitank capacity. Relying on tanks with arrow dice to hit for AT work is a recipe for disaster, no grenades no meltaguns, no S4 assault troops it's in trouble.

This army has almost no assault capability, this will make it a real challenge to take objectives.

This army is very mobile, probably the one shining point in the army is that the list will move pretty fast, helping to mitigate the lack of assault units for objective taking, probably a wash in those games.

This army is 12 KP, about average, probably has a fighting chance in KP games, vs opponents with no armor.


The army relies on ELdar tank Spam, a Tactic that has been made obsolete by the skimmer rules for no glancing all the time and 6s to hit in CC being removed. It just doesnt work anymore.

This army lacks a place for Eldrad to hide, what squad will he go with? The banshees crossing the board alone? Hide by himself somewhere? Could be difficult.

A rhino based (or drop pod) imperial army will embarass this list consistently. A godzilla nid list will give this army no end of headaches, basically any competative build will destroy this list.

"Basically, it's an army of "oh, please stay away from us!"

OK Do you think 3 Prism cannons a reaper launcher and 3 Multilasers can outshoot.... anyone?

This list is very pretty and well themed for the Eldar, I bet it would look fantastic.

I suggest if you haven't bought this yet, don't, or at least be sure you get a really good deal.

Don't worry..it's a ridiculously good deal....

As to your points...Harlies are about as vulnerable to someo fthe sam eunits that banshees are...drop pod heavy flamers and rhino bolte rtroops. If either are engaging the hypothetical eldar unit they are probably close enough so the veil won't help. And vs AP5 the banshees 4+ is almost as good as a fortuned 5+. Of course AP4 ruins the banshee"s day.

With the derth of pods now-a-days I am skeptical the harlies will make it across the board in any condition to engage an enemy unit.

Avengers will get hurt if you let them. They aren't great troops but in a serpent they at least aren't the pod bait rangers are. Sternguard own rangers and sternguard are all over the place now.

I would have sworn bikers are all relentless now? There is odd cross dex/edition stuff that goes on but I thought you could still fire the reaper and move?

Not being able to deal with armor is a big issue with this list. But how much armor will I really be facing? Would you suggest a dragons in a serpent? Or perhaps a haywire armed unit?

ender502

I'm no veteran mech Eldar player, but if you want anti-tank you either spam lances or Fire Dragons, and expensive as lances are, there's little substitute in an Eldar mech force. You don't rely on Fire Prisms for anti-tank; they're there when you've exhausted your other options, or when Blessed Hull LRs bone you. Naked prisms have held up pretty well for me, because the opponent has tended to concentrate more on the serpents.

Compared to the assault units available to other races (re: ORKS), our assault units don't hold up too well in the points efficiency department. There's a lot more flexibility in flying around shooting-oriented units to isolate and focus fire enemy units.

Since you are playing with special characters already I would dump the bike autarach for Yriel. Then dump the Howling Banshees for 8-10 Warlocks to go with Eldrad and Yriel in the Wave serpent with shuriken cannon. Get rid of dire avenger exarchs and bladestorm to make more points for Warlocks. This Eldrad + Yriel + 8-10 Warlocks squad will make an uber assault squad that can soak up alot of fire power and kill both infantry and tanks.

Get brightlances on the dire avenger wave serpents if you can afford it for more anti tank.

I was testing a similar army to this with Jetbike Warlocks and Farseer on Jetbike instead of Eldrad, Yriel and Warlocks on foot and it was pretty decent.

Might as well paint a bulls-eye on a lone bike riding autarch, because that is what your opponent is going to see. If you really want him to be useful, drop the lance, and attach him to a pair of EML-equipped vypers. They can shield him and add more shots at the same prodigious range he is firing at. Also, you are right, bikes are relentless. However, for those points, you can swap him for another vyper altogether unless you are using him to get your forces in from reserve.

I would also drop the prisms. You reallly only need 2 for that charged shot, unless you are using all 3 on a dispersed (template) shot. They still get crunched by deepstrike/outflank.
Also swap a squad of avengers and their serpent for as many jetbikes as will fill the points with maxed shuri-cannons and a warlock with either conceal or embolden. Then you have a semi-tough, fast moving, scoring unit, where the closer you get, the more shots you pump out.
As is, the Autarch is helpless and mismatched for this army, and Lame-drad is more than you need. Swap them for 2 guide/doom seers attached to separate avenger squads.
Doing that should get you enough points good scorpion squad.

I am thinking something like this:

Farseer, stones, doom, guide X2 (1 with each DA squad)

x10 Dire Avengers , exarch, 2 cats, bladestorm (serpent, stones, EML's) x2

x12 jetbikes, 4 shuri-cannons, warlock, embolden

x10 banshees, exarch, mirrorswords, acrobatic (serpent. stones, EML's) x2

Comes in at 1792

Tanks....
Use the missles with krak only for tankbusting and softening up the opponent on your (and his/her) approach.
Avengers...
30 re-roll everything shots will even make marines twitch......once.
Bladestorm is only scary if you are guided and they are doomed. If you are giving up next rounds shooting, make sure you do not have to shoot next turn. Either kill what you are shooting at or assault right after.
Banshees...
They will kill what you sent them to kill. You just have to get them there. Do not move them away from some DA's support though. Eating a proper bladestorm and then being charged by the ladies will most units


The key to a ""stay away from me army" is to make it a very BAD idea for your opponent to close with you, not just an issue of catching up.

List desperately needs antitank. You need bright lances and/or fire dragons.

Not sure if you NEED Eldrad.

Having an Autarch run alone with a jetbike is silly.

I'm not sure if Augustus has ever played an Eldar list.

DeathGryffin wrote:

The key to a ""stay away from me army" is to make it a very BAD idea for your opponent to close with you, not just an issue of catching up.

I would agree.. you have to be nasty up close or fast enough to stay away... that being said. In your list armies hAve no need to come close. With only 4 EML's what's to worry about? That fire power can be equaled by fewer points of marine devs with missile launchers.

The list I posted is sore need of AT... But I don't think you rlist actually answers that. I am kinda wondering about a tooled up exarch to be put in a serpent with fire dragons. Perhaps even Yriel. They would have HTH heft while also giving some much needed AT.

Once I find the basic structure I like I will tailor the autarch and farseer to go with them. A generic farseer would save me some points as would a non-bike autach. though again...I really like the idea of the bike-tarch.

ender502

When you are going mech eldar you really need quantity over quality. It costs you 32 points to upgrade your dire avengers with an exarch. Leave the squad naked and use those points to put Bright Lances or ML and Shuriken Cannons. I like the ml and shuriken cannon for its utility, its really depends on if you are facing alot of 13+ armour. If you play a lot of this then Bright Lances. If its light armour, then ML and Shuriken Cannon's.

Also, the banshees dont need to be max size. There is nothing 10 banshees can do that 8 can't do just as well.

Again drop the Autarch and pick up another farseer for the points.

Another option would be to drop the banshees for a min squad of fire dragons in a serpent. Coming in at 190 points with Spirit stones they are cheap, and if you give the exarch a flamer and crack shot, they can fill alot of rolls. Stick Yriel with them and maybe buff up there numbers, and they are a do all unit.

Your core is very good. 3 Dire in serpents with 3 fire prisms and eldrad is very very good. Just add in some counter assault units to your flavor and your done. I do the list something like this:

210 Eldrad
190 5 Fire Dragons Serpent w/ TL Shuriken, SS
200 8 Harlequins Kisses Shadow Leader
255 10 Dire Avengers Serpent w/ BL
255 10 Dire Avengers Serpent w/ BL
297 10 Dire Avenger Ex PW+SS Defend Serpent w/ BL
(Eldrad rides with these guys, they are your anvil)
345 3 Fire Prisms


Comes in 2 points over. Drop a Dire avenger and add SS to one Serpent and your done. You could also Make Eldrad a Doom Fortune Farseer and use those points to turn the Harlequins into 10 Banshees in a Serpent. That would be 5 Serpents and 3 Prisms. Not shabby in anyone's book, especially at 1750.

Stelek wrote:Fortunes Harlies get hurt, but not destroyed, by drop pod dreads.

Besides, you keep everything off and let half the drop pods come in on turn 1 then move on away from them.

Harlies get 2 fusion guns and lots of rending attacks, they can surely do damage to a dread sitting in your deployment zone, yes?

That's true. But the opponent eventually decides to bring first his Dreads for long range fire support placing them in his zone, while the Dreads with flamers eventually show up at round 2+.

Your core is very good. 3 Dire in serpents with 3 fire prisms and eldrad is very very good. Just add in some counter assault units to your flavor and your done. I do the list something like this:

210 Eldrad
190 5 Fire Dragons Serpent w/ TL Shuriken, SS
200 8 Harlequins Kisses Shadow Leader
255 10 Dire Avengers Serpent w/ BL
255 10 Dire Avengers Serpent w/ BL
297 10 Dire Avenger Ex PW+SS Defend Serpent w/ BL
(Eldrad rides with these guys, they are your anvil)
345 3 Fire Prisms


Comes in 2 points over. Drop a Dire avenger and add SS to one Serpent and your done. You could also Make Eldrad a Doom Fortune Farseer and use those points to turn the Harlequins into 10 Banshees in a Serpent. That would be 5 Serpents and 3 Prisms. Not shabby in anyone's book, especially at 1750.

This list looks quite good. Not sure if the upgraded DA squad is a real anvil. But Eldrad needs to stay somewhere and he needs to stay safe.

Okay... more is better. So here are 2 more variants. Both downgrade to a normal seer and foot autarch but one ha sbanshees and the other harlies. They both have some dragons (who the autarch rides with) and the second adds BL to the serpents.

List #1 banshees, 5 serpents and EML

seer, stones, doom, guide 120
autarch, power weapon, fusion gun 90

8 x banshhes, ex, executioner 270
serpent, eml
6 x fd 216
serpent, eml

10 x da, ex, bladestorm 267
serpent, eml
10 x da, ex, bladestorm 267
serpent, eml
10 x da, ex, bladestorm 267
serpent, eml

3 x prisms 345

1842

List #2 harlies, 4 serpents and BL

seer, stones, doom, guide 120
autarch, power weapon, fusion gun 90

10 x harlies, leader, seer, 5 x kiss 250
5 x fd 215
serpent, BL

10 x da, 255
serpent, BL
10 x da, ex, bladestorm 282
serpent, BL
10 x da, ex, bladestorm 282
serpent, BL

3 x prisms 345

1839

Yes, I know that no one seems to like blade storm. I get that. yes, I will have to get my ass handed to me a few times before I drop it. Which of the above lists look better?

ender502

Well, now you have 1850 pt lists.

There are no safe places for the Autarch and the Farseer. Fire Dragons are one-hit wonders, they disembark, shoot, and die from the return fire.

Both lists are almost equally good. Harlies charging a doomed enemy units are better in cc than Banshees, while Banshees fit better into the mech theme.

I would agree.. you have to be nasty up close or fast enough to stay away... that being said. In your list armies hAve no need to come close. With only 4 EML's what's to worry about? That fire power can be equaled by fewer points of marine devs with missile launchers.

You make some valid points, but I would reverse that:
First, be fast enough to stay away and then be nasty close in.
Even though we eldar are fast and usually outrange the enemy (except those tau spankers), one has to understand that speed is an alternative to firepower only in the short-term. To win. you eventually have to put-up or shut-up. Also, If you leave your serpent in a position to be fired on by some devs, you deserve what you get, especially if you are using a mobile mech list.

IMO, EML's are a better and more versitle option than brightlances.
15 points cheaper, an extra 6" range, 2 shots instead of one (rember you are at BS3), re-rollable scatter (being TL), and you do not have to re-do your list to work agains hords, just use plasma instead. Yes, Krak is slightly weaker than a lance, but you should be blasting the rear and side armour anyway.

I also love the bike-tarch, but he needs support. Pair him with some kind of bike unit, or tell your oponent "Here is a KP."
This is true for all eldar. They are very good at what they do, but should leave everything else to someone else.
By the time you come up with a good "do-all" eldar unit they will be very expensive and such an obvious threat that they will face all of your enemy's firepower.
I know if I see a unit with 2 IC's, I will not tolerate it's survival, giving it full volleys from rangers, reapers, wraithguard and hawks, before my uber CC unit crashes into them.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, now you have 1850 pt lists.

Actually, not too hard to knock it back down. I don't know where I got that from.

wuestenfux wrote: There are no safe places for the Autarch and the Farseer. Fire Dragons are one-hit wonders, they disembark, shoot, and die from the return fire.

What would you suggest as alternative AT? I could do 3 vypers with EML for cheaper? Or perhaps 2 minned squads of spearlocks on bikes? The spearlock is a bit more pricey but has the added advantage of being a unit that can take an objective. The vypers are fragile but have that lovely range and hoard killing advantage.

wuestenfux wrote: Both lists are almost equally good. Harlies charging a doomed enemy units are better in cc than Banshees, while Banshees fit better into the mech theme.

My only reservation about harlies are the high # of pods and the weakening of rending. I like their cheaper cost and the models. They are also a great target. Players get very nervous when they see harlies.

wuestenfux wrote:A lonely Autarch on a jetbike asks for getting annihilated at first sight. Let him join the Banshee squad. The rest looks good. Holofields are not a must have in this list.

ya, scatter laser(or other STR 6 weapon) +one failed save = pile of autarch dust and 140 or so points gone. This has made me sigh way to many times when i run an autarch on a bike.

GeneralX wrote:ALSO. Ignore EVERYTHING Augustus had to say basically. He's a moron!

I'm glad you at least wrote some counter point after posting this obvious flame. I think I will just assume it was written in a moment of heated passion for the Eldar army (which was also close to my heart once) and let it drop.

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:I'm not sure if Augustus has ever played an Eldar list.

Really? You could ask.

I painted every unit in the Eldar codex in the 4th ed rules. My gaming group contained 3 Major Eldar players including me and I have lost count of how many games I played in 4th. I did 2 jetbike seer councils, the foot seer council, 3 Prisms, 3 Falcons, the jetbike based mech army, the all foot army, the farseer, avatar fearless fortress, and a lot of variants. I took Eldar to the 2008 Adepticon Team Tourney. The opinions here are based on that experience as well as in 5th after several games of various combinations of Eldar including playing against them at the Las Vegas GT.

What have you played?

I actually had, and played as and against, every unit proposed in the OP posted list.

For the casual reader I will admit, some of the sharpness in my prior writing comes from having so much sorrow for an army I use to love having had its teeth pulled out completely in 5th ed. While earlier posts may seem flip, they were really honest attempts to warn someone considering this lackluster army.

Believe me I put it through the paces.

Augustus wrote:

For the casual reader I will admit, some of the sharpness in my prior writing comes from having so much sorrow for an army I use to love having had its teeth pulled out completely in 5th ed. While earlier posts may seem flip, they were really honest attempts to warn someone considering this lackluster army.

Just so you know I didn't take your comments harshly. I felt much the same way when 4th destroyed my space wolves.

Mechdar is not as poweful as it was... I usually don't play against a lot of optimized lists so I am cool with playing a less than stellar list. I want to make as much out of this sow's ear as possible. So help out as you can.

What do you think about a couple of spearlock bike squads to add AT power instead of the FD serpent?

ender502