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Recently played a game where a Necron unit took heavy shooting and had at least two guys die (eligible for WBB). They were not moved in their movement phase; however, prior to the movement phase both dead guys come back via WBB. Guys are put back on the board, first one 6" to the left from the last remaining guy (12" away from original position). Second guy is put back to the left of the first guy, now 24" from where it used to be. Same thing happens again, this time the guy left un-wounded was the second guy placed back. This continues and the unit slowly moves across the board. Is this legal for WBB? If not, is it just really bad abuse of the rules?

Units in question are destroyers.

When placing units that have come back from WBB, you must maintain unit coherency. If the unit is completely destroyed, than you cannot preform WBB. Unless their ia a tomb spyder with 12 inches. If there is a tomb spyder within 12 inches, they the resurrected Necrons are placed with a unit of the same type. So if there was a tomb spyder nearby. Then what you described is possible.

It's legal, but very cheesy. Necrons don't stand back up where they fell down, but with-in 2" of the nearest unit. You can knock down Necrons from the back of a unit and stand them back up in the front of the unit for example.

I like to think of it as them having been blown into tiny pieces the body is just a reminder that they are down. These pieces then come together where most of them landed.

On the rules though its nesasary as knocked down models are ignored for game puposes so they might not be able get back up due to a model being ontop of them. Most necrons players will be familiar with the 4th ed senario where a model moves ontop of a downed lord and the rules cease to cover what happens.

What he was doing was clearly illegal.

Even what he was trying to do, I think is not legal.

First, no matter what, the model must be placed in coherency, not 6" away.

Second, you need to look at the context of the rules. It says a 'dead' Necron is placed on its side. It then says that when it passes the WBB roll, it "stands back up". It does not say anything about being able to move anywhere. It only mentions standing back up.

Later, it mentions being placed in coherency. But watch the context, that is only mentioned after saying it works if within 6" of another model, even if the model is in a different unit.
Yes, if 5" away, it needs to be moved. But that is a special case. Claiming that all models can be moved around is a bit of a stretch. I can see where people get it from, but I think that is taking the rules out of context.

Nothing illegal about it Core. Immoral, maybe. Illegal, no. The ONLY qaulifier (after determining eligibility in the first place) about WHERE the model is placed is "in coherency". All that other drivel you just spouted is what you'd like the rules to say, when they don't. In order for the rules to play like you say it would be "Stands back up as close as possible to it's marker position while maintaing coherency with it's new unit."

I am confused as to what exactly happened.

If the downed units were within 6" of another unit of the same type than they get WBB.

But

When you stand them back up after a successful roll they must be in unit coherency. So 2" away from the Unit the models joined.

Seems pretty clear... are you saying that he was setting them 6 inches in front of the furthest forward model in the new unit?

And yet again, more reason WBB should be replaced by FNP!

Thr33ifbyair wrote:I am confused as to what exactly happened.

If the downed units were within 6" of another unit of the same type than they get WBB.

But

When you stand them back up after a successful roll they must be in unit coherency. So 2" away from the Unit the models joined.

Seems pretty clear... are you saying that he was setting them 6 inches in front of the furthest forward model in the new unit?

It was a unit of three destroyers. Three turns of them being shot at. Each turn only two suffered wounds, which knocked them down while being elgible for WBB. On the necron players turn they would stand up and be placed 6" away from the one of the other destroyers in the unit.

A quick ASCII picture;

- - - - - D D D

Unit takes two wounds, two destroyers eligible for WBB;

- - - - - D W W

Necron turns start, both rolls for WBB are successful;

- - - D D D - -

Necron player, then takes his regular move with the unit;

Unit takes two wounds, two destroyers eligible for WBB;

- - - D W W - -

Necron turns start, both rolls for WBB are successful;

D D D - - - - -

To me it seems like the Necron player was abusing his WBB rule to gain extra movement. In essence using the placement after successful WBB rolls to move single destroyers from the far right of the unit to the left of the unit. Then moving the entire unit on the table to the edge closest to the left of the unit.

what a nasty tactic ... legal ... but i've always played with people who just stand them up where they were (unless some one would be standing on them)

Here's my question: what actual impact does this have on the game, if any?

Destroyers can move 12, and have something like a 36 inch range. The only time this maneuver would be really useful is if he was trying to get them into the assault, which Destroyers are generally not very good at or would prefer to stay out of to capitalize on their shooting.

@ sourclams

you could also use it to flank and fallback ... or keep a unit thats falling back from getting to the table edge ... in CC you could use it to force the min number of attacks backs ...

Well, in terms of game impact, the necron player used the WBB "phase" to replace his destroyers in new positions, which effectively shifts the unit on the board a good bit of distance. They then can make their regular move and be able to shoot. However, if you measure from where the unit was and where it is now, the unit moved something like 18+ inches.

Nothing illegal about it Core. Immoral, maybe. Illegal, no

Sorry, you are wrong.
He placed them 6" away, so they were *not* in coherency, so it was *not* legal. Not only was it immoral, it was illegal.

All that other drivel you just spouted is what you'd like the rules to say, when they don't. In order for the rules to play like you say it would be "Stands back up as close as possible to it's marker position while maintaing coherency with it's new unit."

Lets see how my 'drivel' compares to the actual, y'know, rules.

The rules state:
any necrond 'killed' "remains on the tableto and is laid on its side"

Do the rules say anything about being allowed to move that model? no. It must be laid down in the same place it was standing.

The rules continue, to describe the basics of how WBB works:
"On a roll of a 4-6, the necron is repaired and stands back up..."
Again, do the rules say anything about being allowed to move that model? No.
So far in the rules, you can't move them when they 'die', you can't move them when they come back.


Now, the 4th paragraph does say:
"The repaired Necron will immediately be placed in coherency.."
But, it must be read in context. The end of the 3rd paragraph is discussing getting a WBB roll even if 6" away. Then the 4th paragraph discusses how it must be moved into coherency.
Context is important.

I admit that it is not an open/shut case; but when taking the context of the rules into account, it seems the allowance for placing into coherency only applies when it is out of coherency to begin with.

In addition, you are under an obligation to follow *all* of the rules.
The first rule says it must "stand up" with no allowances for movement.
The second rule says it must be placed in coherency.

The second rule does not provide an specific exception to the first rule.

Thank you, core.