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I've a questions about Marine bikes as troopers. I know you can could bike squads of 5 or more as troopers if you have the Captain on a bike or the special character Kosorro Khan (sp?).

You can also do combat squads for Bikes.

You can also have an attack bike in a squad.

So what would happen if you took a fully loaded squad (8 bikes and an attack bike), then split it into combat squads. Say one squad with the Khan and a PF Sgt for some CC abilities and then another "shooty" bit with 2 meltas and an attack bike with a Multi-Melta.

Would the combat squad count as troops as its only got 4 models?

Counsel please.

Russ

Yes, as you take the whole unit as troops, THEN combat squad it during deployment.

Hmm, the combat squad rule says that only 10 man squads can be combat squaded, but bike squads can only ever be eight guys and an attack bike (unless ICs can count for the combat squad). Doesn't that mean bikes cannot actually combat squad?

The rules for this situation are clearly spelled out in the codex. Yes, you can combat squad a unit of bikes. Before you do it though you need a full squad (8) plus an atack bike, for a total of 9 models. When you combat squad them, one squad will have 5 normal bikes, one will have three normal bikes and an attack bike.

If you want a fluff explanation, well an attack bike has two guys on it, so that would make a ten-man squad.

The presence, or lack there of, of independent characters has no effect on this situation.

exactly right.

technically, the IC attaches only during deployment, or when you declare intentions for reserve rules (like out of a drop pod)

so you'd have the 9 bike unit, and the character.

when you deploy them, you have the option of combat squadding them, then adding the character to either one

NaZ

I wish you could split nine wounds into three squads.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I wish you could split nine wounds into three squads.

G

A full bike squad has 10 wounds. 8 from the normal bikes and 2 from the attack bike.

Why are we assuming wounds have anything to do with whether or not a bike squad can split? Or whtether it is a troop choice? Where in the book does it mention wounds?

ender502

ender502 wrote:Why are we assuming wounds have anything to do with whether or not a bike squad can split? Or whtether it is a troop choice? Where in the book does it mention wounds?

ender502

nowhere, but it doesnt matter.

a full bike squad is made up of 10 men. 8 normal bikes and an attack bike. there is one man on each normal bike and two men on the attack bike. they are then broken down into 2 five man combat squads. which ever way you slice it there will always be 5 normal bikes in one and 4 bikes and an attack bikes in the other.

wounds also have no bearing on whether a unit is is scoring or not. EVER.

Regwon wrote:

ender502 wrote:Why are we assuming wounds have anything to do with whether or not a bike squad can split? Or whtether it is a troop choice? Where in the book does it mention wounds?

ender502

nowhere, but it doesnt matter.

Okay, as long as we all understand that this rules discussion has nothing to do with the rules. Wait...What?

Regwon wrote:
a full bike squad is made up of 10 men. 8 normal bikes and an attack bike. there is one man on each normal bike and two men on the attack bike. they are then broken down into 2 five man combat squads. which ever way you slice it there will always be 5 normal bikes in one and 4 bikes and an attack bikes in the other.

Actually, the marine dex seems to indicate that a "full" SM bike squad is made up of 8 men. So, if you're right an 8 man squad is NOT a full squad and NOT able to combat squad.

ender502

Ten men = 8 bikes + 2-man attack bike.

Bike Combat Squads = a 5-Bike Squad and a 3-Bike-plus-1-Attack-Bike Squad.

5 Marines in each squad.

- Marty Lund

Ok, the fact that an Attack Bike has 2 wounds/2 marines on it would mean absolutely nothing towards the rules for Combat Squads, except for the following:
In the Bike Squad entry on page 68 of the SM Codex, it specifically states that an attack bike counts as 2 models for the purposes of breaking the unit for Combat Squads.

As to the second question, yes split up squads still count as Troops. The wording on the SM Captain isn't about unit size (which would throw things into disarray) - but since it says that Bike Squads of 5 or more models may be taken as Troops (not counts as Troops). So the unit is Taken as Troops when purchased, not when deployed.
The neat thing about this army is that you can have 12 fast scoring units in objective games, but only 6 kp in Annihilation missions.

stjohn70 wrote:Ok, the fact that an Attack Bike has 2 wounds/2 marines on it would mean absolutely nothing towards the rules for Combat Squads, except for the following:
In the Bike Squad entry on page 68 of the SM Codex, it specifically states that an attack bike counts as 2 models for the purposes of breaking the unit for Combat Squads.

As to the second question, yes split up squads still count as Troops. The wording on the SM Captain isn't about unit size (which would throw things into disarray) - but since it says that Bike Squads of 5 or more models may be taken as Troops (not counts as Troops). So the unit is Taken as Troops when purchased, not when deployed.
The neat thing about this army is that you can have 12 fast scoring units in objective games, but only 6 kp in Annihilation missions.

St. john for the win!!! Bike are subject to combat squads. Combat squads need 10 models. A full size bike squad = 8 bikes and 1 attack bike that stands for 2 models.

ender502