Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Model is painted - just need to base it. What glue do you use to glue the sand / gravel to the base? I need to totally basecoat the sand once glued, (then highlight it).

I used PVA glue to glue the sand on one model, but when I went to basecoat it, a lot of sand came off when I painted it - making a total mess. Its like the glue isn't strong enough. Is PVA the right glue? Should I use superglue to glue the sand to the base?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Mez

I use elmers school glue

I use PVA mostly but don't bother painting the sand but I've just bought the new Vets and based them before painting so with any luck the spray paint will seal the sand so to speak, will let you know of the results!

Grand_Master_Wolf wrote:I use PVA mostly but don't bother painting the sand but I've just bought the new Vets and based them before painting so with any luck the spray paint will seal the sand so to speak, will let you know of the results!

Yeah, I usually base texture before primering which eliminates the problem. But I didn't do that on this army - the entire model is done, except for the base.... PVA glue not working so well for me.... Mez

I'll have a word round my local hobbyists then local store manager will definately know. Dude's like the fountain of all knowledge!

Mezmaron wrote:I used PVA glue to glue the sand on one model, but when I went to basecoat it, a lot of sand came off when I painted

There's a simple trick/solution here. 3 easy steps to basing:

1) Apply thinned down PVA (Elmer's) to the base
2) Apply basing material and let glue dry completely
3) Once dry, apply another coat of watered down PVA (Elmer's) glue. Thoroughly cover your basing material with this coat and let dry.

This is how I base all my models. It creates a solid base that will withstand many years of normal playing. I base my minis in a 'Cityfight' scheme, so I use a couple grades of woodland Scenics Talus and random debris pieces. This glue method keeps the basing material rock hard and durable as hell. It's as if I used superglue to base it. In the rare event that the base chips, it always comes off as a solid section of the base which allows me to just glue the piece back in place.



Ghidorah

One very important suggestion is to find a basing material that looks like what you're wanting as scenery for the base itself. Painting over the flock tends to look...not too great.
More power to you if you can use mixtures of varying weights of flock to get a bit cooler look.

But yes, thinned down Elmer's glue works fantastic. There's also a woodland scenics glue that works fairly well if you're working on tables or the non-slotted bases, with your models set on pins to be attached later.

Ghidorah wrote:

Mezmaron wrote:I used PVA glue to glue the sand on one model, but when I went to basecoat it, a lot of sand came off when I painted

There's a simple trick/solution here. 3 easy steps to basing:

1) Apply thinned down PVA (Elmer's) to the base
2) Apply basing material and let glue dry completely
3) Once dry, apply another coat of watered down PVA (Elmer's) glue. Thoroughly cover your basing material with this coat and let dry.

This is how I base all my models. It creates a solid base that will withstand many years of normal playing. I base my minis in a 'Cityfight' scheme, so I use a couple grades of woodland Scenics Talus and random debris pieces. This glue method keeps the basing material rock hard and durable as hell. It's as if I used superglue to base it. In the rare event that the base chips, it always comes off as a solid section of the base which allows me to just glue the piece back in place.

Ghidorah

Thanks! How do you apply the glue in #3 above? Brush? Toothpick? Other method?

For the first application, I thin down the paint to (about) the consistency of milk and apply it with a large-ish brush. Not like GW Tank Brish large, but a decent-sized drybrush. I'm sorry, but I am at work now and don't rememebr the brush size # that I use.

When I apply the second covering of glue, I thin it to the consistency of skim milk and apply it liberally. Same brush.


Ghidorah

I do what Ghidorah does
straight pva glue (elmers) on top of the base
i use a mix of woodlands scenic fine, medium and course ballast mixed with some sprue bits and random "debris" i come across (city fight bases)
dump some of my mix on top of the base with glue
i normaly do that twice to get a good ruble pile
pin and Super glue model on top
mix a 2:1 water to pva glue ratio...soak the base and let it dry
holds like a gem
use a crap brush though

hope that helps

after gluing on my sand, I:
- wait for it to dry (ditto for all subsequent steps, don't rush this)
- brush off all the loose sand, using a small housepaint brush
- paint the sand with either varnish or a suitable neutral colour - the varnish/paint bottle will unavoidably get some sand in it, so use a specially marked bottle (I use any old lumpy paints/varnishes I'd otherwise throw out)
- if necessary, carefully brush highlight colours over the painted sand, and/or apply washes

I use kitty litter instead of sand, the really cheap stuff made from clay that comes in a mix of different shapes and sizes. I use school glue and put it on before I undercoat the model, so that it has an extra layer helping it stay on. I seek through for some larger pieces to put on the warboss's base, along with some leftover skulls and it looks great with little effort.

sounds like your glue maybe old or your sand may be too fine. Sounds as if your sand is not breaking the surface of the glue and just sitting on it. Thinnning the glue as others have said should fix this issue. Also consider buy new fresher glue.

I have had great luck lately using elmers woodglue. I find it MUCH strnger than PVA and it drys alot faster. I sand flock my bases as I build the model then primer the whole thing and paint the sand /add grass etc, so the possible yellow look to the wood glue is of no conciquence, you may consider that if doing it after like you said.

I've been using Vallejo Coarse Pumice on my bases recently. I apply it before I do any painting though, as the consistency isn't always easy to manage. This way, if it gets on the model I can scrape it off easily enough. Once dry, it looks similar to the basing method already described and is as hard as a rock! I'm experimenting now with applying "soft" flock while it's still wet, and so far I'm happy with it.

add a tiny bit of washing-up liquid to the watered down pva for the 2nd coat to aid flow.

the dish soap brakes the tention of the water so it will flow in to all the nooks and crannies of the sand. with grass use sealer or hair spray after glue dries

I have found the same problems with PVA/Elmer's glue on my bases. It dries just fine, and then perhaps a month later the entire layer starts to just peel off the base.

I now get around this by using Zap-a-gap as a foundation. Put a little on the base, spread it around with a toothpick, and then dip the base in the sand, swish it around, pull it out, tap it some to get the loose sand off, and you're done. After its all dry, I then use my normal base-painting technique, starting with a slightly thinned-down black.

To date I havent had sand come off, even with semi-regular use and a few years later.

Be careful when spreading around the zap-a-gap, though... if you get any on the miniature, the sand will be a pain in the butt to remove.

I use slightly watered down Elmer's glue so that it brushes on a little more easily then dip into the sand (use playground sand), which I let dry overnight. To "paint" the sand, I use a thick wash of Liquitex Raw Umber. I practically flood wash it, which makes it very fast. I also mix a little bit of PVA glue into the wash, which helps seal loose pieces of sand.

I glue the model to the base, then I glue ( with PVA glue ) the sand to the base. then i undercoat the whole model and only after that i paint the model and the base.