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Big Mek
Kustom Force Field

Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun

20 x Shoota Boyz
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota’s

20 x Shoota Boyz
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota’s

20 x Shoota Boyz
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota’s

15 x Kommando’s
Burna’s x 2
Snikrot

12 x Loota’s

12 x Loota’s

15 x Storm Boyz
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole

15 x Storm Boyz
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole

Points 1850 (I think, no codex with me at the moment)

I’ve played two games so far in 5th Edition after not having played since the beginning of 3rd Edition. I played a 750 point and a 1250 point game, both times against a Tyranid player. I won both with an army constructed around 2 units of Shoota boyz and 2 units of Loota boyz.

My observations are that Loota’s are dead killy and that 20 strong mobs of Shoota boyz with Power Klaw Nobs can tie up and take out everything from Gaunts to Hive Tyrants.

Basically the above list is somewhat of an all comers force. Obviously it is foot slogging horde army but with two units of Stormboyz, Snikrot’s Kommando’s and a Warphead they have the potential to move relatively quickly if needs be.

I’d like to be relatively competitive in a tournament situation (i.e. tactically flexible and effective) but not completely boring (i.e. fun, hence the random nature of the SAG and the Warphead). I’ve got roughly 225 points to spend to makeup the list to 2000 points. I was leaning towards Deffkopta’s with twin-linked Rokkit Launcha’s for sheer speed and tank busting.

If people would like to make suggestions to composition and/or suggest changes/additions that would be greatly appreciated as I’ve only played 2 games of 5th Edition and haven’t played any games before that since circa 2000!

Uh, remove one of your three HQ choices?

uhm... drop the storm boyz. more lootas.

you also can't have 3 HQ units.

you can put nobs on bikes, or nobs in a trukk and be much more effective. i run a mob of 9 nobz and a painboy, all with power klaws and cybork bodies. toss my warboss in there... that's a lot of pain. 4+ save 5+ inv, 4+ feel no pain. that's tough as nails... run them in a trukky only to get them up the board fast, after that who cares if they blow it up... s3 hits on t5 means 5+ you get a wound? at worst, and in my experience, you take a single wound on a nob. then again... my dice like my orks, and i roll certainly above average with them... maybe it's me...

kommandos, i haven't played with them... i figure if i am running up 90-120 orks... i'll contest a few objectives anyway, and won't need them.

phiasco wrote:uhm... drop the storm boyz. more lootas.

you also can't have 3 HQ units.

you can put nobs on bikes, or nobs in a trukk and be much more effective. i run a mob of 9 nobz and a painboy, all with power klaws and cybork bodies. toss my warboss in there... that's a lot of pain. 4+ save 5+ inv, 4+ feel no pain. that's tough as nails... run them in a trukky only to get them up the board fast, after that who cares if they blow it up... s3 hits on t5 means 5+ you get a wound? at worst, and in my experience, you take a single wound on a nob. then again... my dice like my orks, and i roll certainly above average with them... maybe it's me...

kommandos, i haven't played with them... i figure if i am running up 90-120 orks... i'll contest a few objectives anyway, and won't need them.

I’ll nerf the third HQ choice.

Why would I drop the Storm Boyz in favor of more Loota’s? I already have two squads of 12 Loota’s. Anything more would just be unwieldy and difficult to keep in adequate cover.

I appreciate the input, but a Nob bikers unit goes against the foot slogging aspect I was aiming for. Besides, for such a large unit of biker Nob’s that is a hideous amount of points to spend and surely a canny player could tie them up with a couple of throw-away units.

Kommando’s with Snikrot can now enter play when held in reserve from ANY table edge. If it were not for Snikrot I wouldn’t take Kommando’s at all. That ability can make them very dangerous.

No opinion on Deffkopta’s?

Because the Force Organization Chart says so. Drop one of the HQs.

Done; see above for comments.

You should edit your post and remove one hq choice

I got rid of the Warphead as I figure with remaining points and a force re-gig I can add some speed if needs be.

Thoughts?

you have a 48 inch range on your lootas.

why do you need cover?

and so what... you hide two units in cover and put one right in the middle of your board edge and you have a unit that cannot be ignored with range on the entire table...

why WOULDN'T you want more lootas?



kommandos... are meh. you're choosing expensive units that just... die. nothing else to really say, boyz die too. boyz and lootas is all you really need. battle wagons in bigger games... numbers are your friend. you can put twice the amount of models on the table if you stay away from useless things like stormboyz. so what, they have a 12 inch move. and all the while, they are getting shot to hell.


more lootas. bikes > (kommandos + storm boyz) deffkoptas are good for drawing fire for a turn from a couple units, or left ignored great for punching armor if they have a buzzsaw. also... these are orks, and they want CC. why are you giving them shootas instead of sluggas and choppas. when you have 30 boys charging, it's a difference of a lot wounds with the extra attack from CC weapons. shooting... let's face it you're not hitting much with a 5+ to hit. Unless your 45 lootas on the table all hit a 5 or 6. and then you have... 135 S7 shots coming form lootas... i'm sorry... that's death for most things. including light armor, and possibly some medium armor with some decent dice rolls.


i would love to play against you and your list.

phiasco wrote:you have a 48 inch range on your lootas.

why do you need cover?

and so what... you hide two units in cover and put one right in the middle of your board edge and you have a unit that cannot be ignored with range on the entire table...

why WOULDN'T you want more lootas?



kommandos... are meh. you're choosing expensive units that just... die. nothing else to really say, boyz die too. boyz and lootas is all you really need. battle wagons in bigger games... numbers are your friend. you can put twice the amount of models on the table if you stay away from useless things like stormboyz. so what, they have a 12 inch move. and all the while, they are getting shot to hell.


more lootas. bikes > (kommandos + storm boyz) deffkoptas are good for drawing fire for a turn from a couple units, or left ignored great for punching armor if they have a buzzsaw. also... these are orks, and they want CC. why are you giving them shootas instead of sluggas and choppas. when you have 30 boys charging, it's a difference of a lot wounds with the extra attack from CC weapons. shooting... let's face it you're not hitting much with a 5+ to hit. Unless your 45 lootas on the table all hit a 5 or 6. and then you have... 135 S7 shots coming form lootas... i'm sorry... that's death for most things. including light armor, and possibly some medium armor with some decent dice rolls.


i would love to play against you and your list.

Storm boyz get 12 + d6 inch move, that is assuming i read my codex right... Given the right list, storm boy spam is very very hard to deal with. They need to be backed up by a second wave of attackers, trukk boyz or out flanking Komanados are great for this. Quite often you will get much more storm boyz stuck into combat by flying than if you foot slogged an equal point cost amount of boyz.

Loota and boy spam is ONE way to play orks well. It by far is the most obvious, tired, and easily countered. Shootas are fine for 30 packs of boys walking, getting 2-3 turns of S4 shooting is often preferable than getting 1 total turn of a single extra attack per model of a most likely shot to heck unit. Ork I is bad so even on the charge they take casualties before getting to attack. 3 attacks per model at S 4 for 6 points is more than a bargain, wanting to give up several potential turns of assault 2 shooting to get a round of extra S4 attacks (if you charge that turn) doesn't seem to be so great.

Running a 2 unit type army with an obvious game plan no matter how strong it is, is a recipe for disaster. Versus a good opponent with a real 5th ed list you will have an uphill fight to get such an immobile idea to work. The OP appears to realize this and took sneaky and fast units to cover his armies obvious weakness. Cutting the stormboyz and Komandos would be a mistake. The original list is fine, though i usually go for the full 30 packs.

The lootas do a great job of shooting transports to deny an opponent mobility, horde overwhelms suddenly immobile army, stormboyz act/react as needed, and kommandos eat firebases.

to bring it to 2000 points i would just make the 3 boy units 30 with 3x big shootas, and make one of the storm boy units 20 strong.

It would look like this:

Big mek: KFF
Big mek: SAG

3x 30 Shoota boyz w/nob with pk and bp 3 big shootas

Kommandos 15x w/ snikrot and 2x burna

2x 12 lootas

20 Storm boyz w/nob PK and BP
15 Storm boyz w/nob PK and BP

Should come out to 2000

Lots of Dakka, and enough PK to make a player start to worry.

Personally i run mega nobs in trucks and battle wagons, but I used to run an army like the above. It will usually table an average SM type player. (not that that's hard with orks) It will struggle vs a good guard player unless the kommandos work overtime. (you will get 1 turn of loota fire, then they die, then your mobs will get hellhounded/battle cannoned to death.)

Orks aren't genestealers. Shoot the enemy until they are squishy and beatable in combat.

OK best input I can give you is as follows. HQ looks solid, though honestly I know Orks love randomness I have gotten little love from my SAG mek, thus I would either cut back to 1 KFF mek and a boss, or just the KFF mek. More points is more boyz and more boyz is good. I have tried lootas and so far I find them to be hit or miss, again that can romper stomp if you roll alotta 5&6 for number of shots, but when they roll alotta 1&2 you will be banging your head on the wall. Plus with all the clogged firing lanes with 5ths TLoS I prefer minimal shooting with my Orks. Drop the shootas and go straight slugga/choppa. By the time you are in range to shoot your shootas you will probably be wanting to move 6, WAAAAGH a d6, and assault, thus making the guns pointless. And every turn before that you wanna run to get closer and/or keep dodging out of sight. I know Orks using cover and staying out of sight doesn't feel very Orky but I adhere to the bloodaxe creedo: there is no point in dying before ya get to crump sumphin! I find Snikrot and his boys to be down right powerful. Yeah they are as squishy as any other Ork but with the flamers and then a charge from the rear they hurt critical units on your opponents side. Not having tried Koptas yet I cant say too much, but I feel TL Rokkits with a Buzz Saw or two is the way to go. 1,2, or 5 per unit for morale check reasons. I see them as being a nice bait/ harassment unit. Nobs are just great. Go 10 Ork, 3 w/ PK, 1 doc, and 6 regular as a devious counter charge and clean up unit. Stormboyz are rather cool IMHO, but I feel one squad is enough with Zag... yeah you will lose d3 boys for his sweet assault outta DS rule, but that is a fair trade to get stuck in sooner (not to mention the sweet I4 PK on him from his feet). Basically my idea is why bother shooting when if you get enough sneaky units stuck in quickly, ie kommando's, koptas, and stormboys... why bother shooting, play your cards right and you will wreak so much havoc that so many of your boyz will hit the other guys lines intact, that it will be game over rather quickly. So to sum up: KFF mek, 120 or so boys, 1-2 kommando's, 1 stormboys, 1-2 Koptas units, 1-2 nobs.... I believe numbers with solid tactics win wars. I am sure alotta people will want to argue the point, but this is just my 2c.

phiasco wrote:you have a 48 inch range on your lootas.

why do you need cover?

and so what... you hide two units in cover and put one right in the middle of your board edge and you have a unit that cannot be ignored with range on the entire table...

why WOULDN'T you want more lootas?

Because Loota’s are the premier unit in the Ork Codex, therefore they would be ripe targets to enemy shooting. A 4+ cover save is much better than a 6+ save. Creating a third sacrificial unit of Loota’s is not a good idea.

phiasco wrote:kommandos... are meh. you're choosing expensive units that just... die. nothing else to really say, boyz die too.

Do you know what Snikrot can do? Used properly (with Snikrot) they are brilliant. Without him I wouldn’t consider taking Kommando’s.

phiasco wrote: boyz and lootas is all you really need. battle wagons in bigger games... numbers are your friend. you can put twice the amount of models on the table if you stay away from useless things like stormboyz. so what, they have a 12 inch move. and all the while, they are getting shot to hell.

Stormboyz are brilliant for their points. The premier Ork assault unit and almost mandatory in any medium to large size Ork army.

phiasco wrote:more lootas. bikes > (kommandos + storm boyz) deffkoptas are good for drawing fire for a turn from a couple units, or left ignored great for punching armor if they have a buzzsaw. also... these are orks, and they want CC. why are you giving them shootas instead of sluggas and choppas. when you have 30 boys charging, it's a difference of a lot wounds with the extra attack from CC weapons. shooting... let's face it you're not hitting much with a 5+ to hit. Unless your 45 lootas on the table all hit a 5 or 6. and then you have... 135 S7 shots coming form lootas... i'm sorry... that's death for most things. including light armor, and possibly some medium armor with some decent dice rolls.

Buzzsaws are expensive and not worth their points on a Deffkopta. They are only Str 7 on the charge and Str 6 after subsequent rounds of combat.

notabot187 wrote:Storm boyz get 12 + d6 inch move, that is assuming i read my codex right... Given the right list, storm boy spam is very very hard to deal with. They need to be backed up by a second wave of attackers, trukk boyz or out flanking Komanados are great for this. Quite often you will get much more storm boyz stuck into combat by flying than if you foot slogged an equal point cost amount of boyz.

Loota and boy spam is ONE way to play orks well. It by far is the most obvious, tired, and easily countered. Shootas are fine for 30 packs of boys walking, getting 2-3 turns of S4 shooting is often preferable than getting 1 total turn of a single extra attack per model of a most likely shot to heck unit. Ork I is bad so even on the charge they take casualties before getting to attack. 3 attacks per model at S 4 for 6 points is more than a bargain, wanting to give up several potential turns of assault 2 shooting to get a round of extra S4 attacks (if you charge that turn) doesn't seem to be so great.

Running a 2 unit type army with an obvious game plan no matter how strong it is, is a recipe for disaster. Versus a good opponent with a real 5th ed list you will have an uphill fight to get such an immobile idea to work. The OP appears to realize this and took sneaky and fast units to cover his armies obvious weakness. Cutting the stormboyz and Komandos would be a mistake. The original list is fine, though i usually go for the full 30 packs.

The lootas do a great job of shooting transports to deny an opponent mobility, horde overwhelms suddenly immobile army, stormboyz act/react as needed, and kommandos eat firebases.

to bring it to 2000 points i would just make the 3 boy units 30 with 3x big shootas, and make one of the storm boy units 20 strong.

It would look like this:

Big mek: KFF
Big mek: SAG

3x 30 Shoota boyz w/nob with pk and bp 3 big shootas

Kommandos 15x w/ snikrot and 2x burna

2x 12 lootas

20 Storm boyz w/nob PK and BP
15 Storm boyz w/nob PK and BP

Should come out to 2000

Lots of Dakka, and enough PK to make a player start to worry.

Personally i run mega nobs in trucks and battle wagons, but I used to run an army like the above. It will usually table an average SM type player. (not that that's hard with orks) It will struggle vs a good guard player unless the kommandos work overtime. (you will get 1 turn of loota fire, then they die, then your mobs will get hellhounded/battle cannoned to death.)

Orks aren't genestealers. Shoot the enemy until they are squishy and beatable in combat.

I can see we are on the same page, or close to it.

I'm a bit sketchy on the use of Meganobz at the moment, mainly because I don't know how to use them yet but they their value is obvious.

The whole reason I included the Deffkopta's was basically a way of trying to deal with heavy armour armies, such as the Guard analogy you mentioned.

I really do not want to run the obligitory Nob-biker squad of Doom. Investing my points and stratergy in one unit alone seems not very tactically wise.

Aztralwolf wrote:OK best input I can give you is as follows. HQ looks solid, though honestly I know Orks love randomness I have gotten little love from my SAG mek, thus I would either cut back to 1 KFF mek and a boss, or just the KFF mek. More points is more boyz and more boyz is good. I have tried lootas and so far I find them to be hit or miss, again that can romper stomp if you roll alotta 5&6 for number of shots, but when they roll alotta 1&2 you will be banging your head on the wall. Plus with all the clogged firing lanes with 5ths TLoS I prefer minimal shooting with my Orks. Drop the shootas and go straight slugga/choppa. By the time you are in range to shoot your shootas you will probably be wanting to move 6, WAAAAGH a d6, and assault, thus making the guns pointless. And every turn before that you wanna run to get closer and/or keep dodging out of sight. I know Orks using cover and staying out of sight doesn't feel very Orky but I adhere to the bloodaxe creedo: there is no point in dying before ya get to crump sumphin! I find Snikrot and his boys to be down right powerful. Yeah they are as squishy as any other Ork but with the flamers and then a charge from the rear they hurt critical units on your opponents side. Not having tried Koptas yet I cant say too much, but I feel TL Rokkits with a Buzz Saw or two is the way to go. 1,2, or 5 per unit for morale check reasons. I see them as being a nice bait/ harassment unit. Nobs are just great. Go 10 Ork, 3 w/ PK, 1 doc, and 6 regular as a devious counter charge and clean up unit. Stormboyz are rather cool IMHO, but I feel one squad is enough with Zag... yeah you will lose d3 boys for his sweet assault outta DS rule, but that is a fair trade to get stuck in sooner (not to mention the sweet I4 PK on him from his feet). Basically my idea is why bother shooting when if you get enough sneaky units stuck in quickly, ie kommando's, koptas, and stormboys... why bother shooting, play your cards right and you will wreak so much havoc that so many of your boyz will hit the other guys lines intact, that it will be game over rather quickly. So to sum up: KFF mek, 120 or so boys, 1-2 kommando's, 1 stormboys, 1-2 Koptas units, 1-2 nobs.... I believe numbers with solid tactics win wars. I am sure alotta people will want to argue the point, but this is just my 2c.

Thanks for the input Aztral.

I think your suggestions are the next on my list of "too try".

Though to be honest, I don't think I'll be swapping out Shota Boyz for Sluga and Choppa Boyz just yet.

1 Space Marine fires his bolter at a T4 target 24" 66% chance to hit with only 1 shot, then S4 vs T4 50% chance to score a wound...33% total chance to wound.
1 Shoota Boy moves 6" then fires his shoota at a T4 target at 18" with only a 33% chance to hit but with 2 shots which is a total 66% chance to get one hit with 2 shots, then S4 vs T4 50% chance to score a wound...33% total chance to wound?

I personally enjoy Shoota over Sluggas for the most part. Now take into Account armour saves and what not, Marines 1 on 1 take the win, but its never 1 on 1 with orks hence the 10 man units vs 30 man units.

Let me just weigh in on Snikrot. When used intelligently he and his lads will always earn their point cost. In my last game Snikrot and 11 kommandos wiped out three obilterators and killed ten Thousand Sons. This guy is serious trouble.

big deal... CC units can tear apart shooty units. i would EXPECT oblits and thousand sons to fold in CC. especially with that many attacks. now lets put your 11 kommandos against my arhcon and wyches. the only thing you could hope for is the intelligent placing of your snikrot, because if he is base to base with my archon, /goodbye. and wyches... let's put all of their attacks in the mix as well. sure, i'll lose some models. i'll win combat, and at initiatve 6... you're gone. your storm boyz? you're going to rush into what? one of the 12 skimmers on the board? ok. i'll hit you with a horrorfex from a ravager... pin you... and blast you away with plasma shots and slave snares. and meanwhile i'll drop one of 3 haemonculi off and flamer them... i roll for AP... anything but a six and you're stormboys die on a roll of 2+ for wounding. rinse... repeat...

like i said...

i would love to play your list. snikrot... kommandos... all of it. please... charge my archon and squad of wyches with your kommandos. please, come rushing up at me with your stormboyz into my army.

when evaluating lists, i look at things from two points of view, and that's how i would beat you with my army, or how i would beat me with your army. your army dies to my CC. my army dies to a ton of lootas. wait... that many lootas can definitely mess up a whole lot of armies. stormboyz... ruch into CC, kill a unit... and then are left in the open to get shot at by almost anything and die to AP.

sure your list might do well locally. i don't live where you live, i don't think. but it's not competitive enough for anything more than friendly play.

my opinion.

Yes Phiasco the kommando's will prolly get torn up in the matchup ou propose, but maybe not always. And yes they will do a good job on those oblits and TS. But that is the point, kommando's are supposed to come in and eliminate fire bases for the rest of your boyz to arrive safely. But if every player makes idiotic charges then of course you will win every time. I dont mind aggressive posting of opinions, but your are kinda like steleks... except after I have read it I have learned nothing.

ok, so... against static shooting units in an army you expect to win the game? oblits are there to shoot armor. most ork armor is nothing. battlewagons being the excreption. surely not invincible. bright lances, dark lances, rail guns... melta guns... what battlewagon?

and how does your CC unit lose a matchup on purpose? ???

ok so no one in your area plays dark eldar... i know someone plays blood angels. at least one. what do you do against death company? or let's ignore CC units, when do you do against plates? any size... flame, plasma guns, pies... harder to kill and fall back 30 orks than it is 11.

i play dark eldar, so that is what i compare against. i play blood angels not as much, so that is what i will compare against second. yes. kommandos are ok. yes kommandos die just as fast as every other orks. yes they WILL kill stuff. would i count on them winning or losing a game for me?. no. would i count on massed boys and more firepower than i can roll dice at? more often than not.

it's my OPINION that bikes are the better choice of stormboys AND kommandos. not only do they get mobile cover saves, but T5 S9 powerklaws with 4 attacks chargin into units will mess up more and survive longer, especially if ork player is smart and runs them with 'eavy armor then they don't die near as easily... oh wait... toss on a painboy, and they get another 4+ save from all but instant death.

and more lootas.

you give 10 players with a CC oriented army. 7-8 of them are going to charge everything. 1 might not, and 1 will charge the important parts of the army. and even if you're not charging into my CC units. you're still going to get charged by my CC units. i assume i am not the only player in 40k that uses CC units.

maybe it was a bad example. not many people play against dark eldar. some do. taking advantage of mistakes is a strategy as well. if you play an opportunistic army, you pay attention. people WILL make mistakes. and ignore or shoot/charge at exactly what you want them to.

phiasco,
do you ever play on vassal? we could arrange a match easily.

i don't

i've thought about it.

but i don't

Thanks for taking the time to give me your point of view Phiasco. I can appreciate I have a dearth of experience and I think I can safely assume that you have a lot of familiarity with 40K.

However, your tone and lack of subjectivity on this particular issue has led me to the conclusion that you value your opinion too highly to actually to provide a non-bias and meritorious rationale to re-enforce your point of view with regards to tactics and troop choice.

i would love to play your list. snikrot... kommandos... all of it. please... charge my archon and squad of wyches with your kommandos. please, come rushing up at me with your stormboyz into my army.


Yes there are CC combat units that could take on snikrott. But if you use your expensive archon and wyches to fight them...there are not fighting anything else. the rest of his ork army will kill all warriors in CC and light skimmers will drop like flies with all the (big) shoota's and lootas. I would put my money on him.

But I do agree on the whole stormboyz thing... Its better to get more boyz and you can never have enough loota's!!!!!!!

phiasco wrote:ok, so... against static shooting units in an army you expect to win the game? oblits are there to shoot armor. most ork armor is nothing. battlewagons being the excreption. surely not invincible. bright lances, dark lances, rail guns... melta guns... what battlewagon?

and how does your CC unit lose a matchup on purpose? ???

ok so no one in your area plays dark eldar... i know someone plays blood angels. at least one. what do you do against death company? or let's ignore CC units, when do you do against plates? any size... flame, plasma guns, pies... harder to kill and fall back 30 orks than it is 11.

i play dark eldar, so that is what i compare against. i play blood angels not as much, so that is what i will compare against second. yes. kommandos are ok. yes kommandos die just as fast as every other orks. yes they WILL kill stuff. would i count on them winning or losing a game for me?. no. would i count on massed boys and more firepower than i can roll dice at? more often than not.

it's my OPINION that bikes are the better choice of stormboys AND kommandos. not only do they get mobile cover saves, but T5 S9 powerklaws with 4 attacks chargin into units will mess up more and survive longer, especially if ork player is smart and runs them with 'eavy armor then they don't die near as easily... oh wait... toss on a painboy, and they get another 4+ save from all but instant death.

and more lootas.

you give 10 players with a CC oriented army. 7-8 of them are going to charge everything. 1 might not, and 1 will charge the important parts of the army. and even if you're not charging into my CC units. you're still going to get charged by my CC units. i assume i am not the only player in 40k that uses CC units.

maybe it was a bad example. not many people play against dark eldar. some do. taking advantage of mistakes is a strategy as well. if you play an opportunistic army, you pay attention. people WILL make mistakes. and ignore or shoot/charge at exactly what you want them to.


i don't mind aggressive posting of opinions... except after i have read yours i have learned... nothing... oh except that you think the majority of people are going to underestimate their own army list and not attack what is in front of them. and that your kommandos are going to lose CC on purpose.

Phiasco:

Have you read the ork codex? Ork bikes confer a 4+ ARMOUR SAVE in addition the the cover save and extra toughness. And i assume that you are talking about nob bikers, also known as one of the most expensive units you can take in the game. (though they are worth it if you split up the wargear right) Saying smart players take a redundant 5 point per model war gear option is pretty bad advice. Nob bikers are about as killy as a full unit of stormboyz AND kommandos combined, but they better be beacause they cost more points than both combined. Better bring the bosspole and warboss to make sure they don't run... LD test anyone?

You also talk about death company as being an uber CC squad. The reason they are good is that the are sort of free, and are more survivable than a space marine. You won't get feel no pain vs PK, and I doubt you can take enough to cause as much damage as you think.

DE are dangerous, but they suffer from the issue of being S3 T3, with rapid fire S3 guns, and their transports are paper airplanes. They have a limited number of good weapons, but they are an army that is meant for taking out small elite armies. Sure they can run plasma cannon equiv and even flamers and S6 shredders, but I strongly doubt you run such an army. I have been wrong before, but spending points on the archon means you get less of whats actually good vs orks.

Phiasco there is a DE player in my group, but not a blood angels player. My Ork experience is played against DE, Tau, 3 varieties of Marines, 3 Varieties of CSM, Nids, Daemons, SoB, DH, and IG. Sadly I am the only Eldar player so I get no experience against them. But look lemme try to be peaceful here, apply somemore insight to help the origial poster, and stop jacking his thread. Dark Eldar when well played are a good counter to Orks. As far as Kommando's go I have in my experience found them to be invaluable. Snikrot once literally won me a game by killing 2 of my buddies squads almost singlehandedly. Stormboys are as well a very good resource especially with Zagstruk to get stuck in faster and avoid running longer. I have NO argument about getting as many boyz on the board as possible, and I know some people really do like Loota's, but in my experience they just don't do enough damage for me. Now of course part of that is just poor luck with their number of shots, but I also don't like how easy they are to make run away. I know Kommando's have the same squad limit, but they are better able to get into CC where they are more likely to come out on top. Now I know Loota's have a great range on their guns but with 5th eddition, it is way to easy to get assaulted and torn up by other armies scout/infiltrate units coming in the same as Kommando's. As far as dealing with vehicles go, I would rather take TL Rokkit Koptas that can either boost out early or come in on the flanks later and deal with moderate armor, plus aside from LR and Lith now my regular boyz can charge a tank and glance it since they hit rear armor. I do really like bikers, but I feel they are somewhat overcosted, Nob bikers on the other hand have merit despite an even higher cost. But overall I would rather take Nobs on foot behind my regular boys, or in a wagon. When it comes to gearing them all Klaws would be a very, no offense, rookie mistake. Each PK is equal to 4 boys and a point in cost, if you drop it down to 2-3 PK in a squad of 10 then you have enough for an entire squad of boys. Plus aything more is overkill. In the end alotta things in this game are a matter of taste, and we are all here to learn how things work for other people. Anyway I hope all the input has helped the OP. If you still wish to discuss things off the original topic I will gladly meet you in a tactics thread or through PM.

notabot187 wrote:Phiasco:

Have you read the ork codex? Ork bikes confer a 4+ ARMOUR SAVE in addition the the cover save and extra toughness. And i assume that you are talking about nob bikers, also known as one of the most expensive units you can take in the game. (though they are worth it if you split up the wargear right) Saying smart players take a redundant 5 point per model war gear option is pretty bad advice. Nob bikers are about as killy as a full unit of stormboyz AND kommandos combined, but they better be beacause they cost more points than both combined. Better bring the bosspole and warboss to make sure they don't run... LD test anyone?

You also talk about death company as being an uber CC squad. The reason they are good is that the are sort of free, and are more survivable than a space marine. You won't get feel no pain vs PK, and I doubt you can take enough to cause as much damage as you think.

DE are dangerous, but they suffer from the issue of being S3 T3, with rapid fire S3 guns, and their transports are paper airplanes. They have a limited number of good weapons, but they are an army that is meant for taking out small elite armies. Sure they can run plasma cannon equiv and even flamers and S6 shredders, but I strongly doubt you run such an army. I have been wrong before, but spending points on the archon means you get less of whats actually good vs orks.

the archon was an example, pointed specifically against kommandos. there are a lot less of those.. i in fact run 12 shredders, 6 destructors, and disintegrators on my ravagers. along with horrofex...

and yes, i've read the codex

and yeah bikes cost more... for a reason. and of course i am talking about nob bikes...


and again... i talk about dark eldar and blood angels, because those are what i play...

OK folks, I've cleaned up a lot of the flaming and trolling in this thread.

Remember, if you don't want to take the time to refute someone's argument politely, you can always choose to simply ignore their argument or even use the 'ignore' feature on them to not even see the contents of their posts.

After some thought, I have modified my existing list and produced two new lists along the same lines.

List 1;

Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun

Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun


Kommando Mob
Snikrot
Burna
Burna

Loota Mob 1

Loota Mob 2

Shoota Mob 1
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Shoota Mob 2
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Shoota Mob 3
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Shoota Mob 4
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Stormboyz Mob 1
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole

Stormboyz Mob 2
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole

The above list has 151 models and totals 1989 points.

It has a strong firebase of Loota’s supported by 2 BM’s with SAG’s. While both units are quite random, they are deadly in their own right. However, they are fragile and are vulnerable to other units that get behind my main line.

The 4 units of Shoota Boyz provide a solid core both in numbers and in basic anti-troop shooting and CC. However, they are fragile and can/could be unwieldy.

The 2 units of Stormboyz provide fast moving CC effectiveness (when applied properly) and have the ability to wreak havoc or bolster the line where appropriate. However, they are fragile and do not earn their points back until they engage in CC.

The Kommando’s led by Snikrot are effectively a unit that will enter play from either the flanks or my enemy’s table edge to eliminate/engage units/tanks that pose a significant threat to my main force and/or are not easily engaged by my main force. However, they are fragile and at this stage, I have no idea how to use them, yet.

List 2;

Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun

Big Mek
Kustom Force Field


Kommando Mob
Snikrot
Burna
Burna

Loota Mob 1

Loota Mob 2

Shoota Mob 1
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Shoota Mob 2
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Shoota Mob 3
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Shoota Mob 4
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole
Big Shoota
Big Shoota

Stormboyz Mob 1
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole

Stormboyz Mob 2
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole

Stormboyz Mob 3
Nob
Power Klaw
Boss Pole

The above list has 151 models and totals 1995 points.

I’ve swapped the second Shokk Attack Gun for a Kustom Force Field and split the Stormboyz into 3 squads.

I worry that the Kustom Force Field will have any value and worry if the Stormboyz reduced mob size will make them susceptible to moral checks more readily.

NB: I do not have the Codex on me so points costs could be off.

the revisions are better. i am sorry but 150 models on the able is nothing to scoff at. even for my alleged elitism.

i'd still like to play it though.

The KFF should still do ok for you, its easy to get a 4+ cover save in 5th ed, but often you HAVE to cross that wide open killing field.