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For example, can I begin the game with my 8 Khorne Berserkers embarked in a Land Raider which was taken as a heavy support choice?

Yes, you can. Just announce how all embarkation is being handled during deployment. The only exception, as you seem to know, is dedicated transports. Beyond that, anyone can get in anything, and ICs can even be pre-loaded into dedicated transports with the unit that owns the transport.

sirisaacnuton wrote:Yes, you can.

More precisely: There are no rules that actually specifically allow it, but most players assume that it's allowed.

@ insaniak :- Pg 67 Dedicated Transports "...The only limitation of dedicated transports is that when deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with..." so basicly its say that normal transports can start with a unit in the and a dedicated Transport is limited to only the squad they came with ... i'm sure theres also a proper mention some where in the rule book i just can't find it

it'd be a great if you could pre-load a transport and benfit from any special rules (i'm thinking flanking)

Tri wrote:@ insaniak :- Pg 67 Dedicated Transports "...The only limitation of dedicated transports is that when deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with..."

That says that dedicated transports can only carry their own unit at the start of the game.

It doesn't say that units can be deployed into non-dedicated transports. Such a statement simply does not appear in the 5th edition rules. The only rules specifically allowing a unit to start the game in a transport are in the section dealing with Reserves.

It's widely assumed that it's perfectly acceptable. It's not a rule.

insaniak wrote:

sirisaacnuton wrote:Yes, you can.

More precisely: There are no rules that actually specifically allow it, but most players assume that it's allowed.

uh oh, but we aren't allowed to assume that we are able to do something just because the rule book doesn't say we can't.

Drunkspleen wrote:uh oh, but we aren't allowed to assume that we are able to do something just because the rule book doesn't say we can't.

I never said that you can do it because the rulebook doesn't say you can't.

I said that most players assume that it's possible.

I also pointed out that the rules don't actually agree.

you can put a squad in any transport bought as a heavy. Any dedicated transport can haul any squad as long as they are not in the transport at the begining of the game.
to the point a loota mob can use a looted wagon or a batt
wagon as a transport.

I wasn't able to find any rules that allow a unit to be deployed on the board inside a non-dedicated transport. Is this not possible any more?

Democratus wrote:I wasn't able to find any rules that allow a unit to be deployed on the board inside a non-dedicated transport. Is this not possible any more?

insaniak wrote:More precisely: There are no rules that actually specifically allow it, but most players assume that it's allowed.

sorry double post

finaly found it ... pg 94 -Reserves- -Preparing reserves- 4th par ...." similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantarty units and/or independent charictors in reserve. If they do, the unit and transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together..."


edit ... there are really no deployment rule ... closest thing to a rule is pg92 A Note On Secrecy "...always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked on which transport..." other then that i see no rules for deployment (i'm ignoring the mission ones such as, 'deploy 12" away from the center' ) ... its almost like GW dropped a page ... and as i said early the dedicated transport rule lays out rule for deployment well enough with "The only limitation of dedicated transports is that when deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with" ... if normal transports could NOT have a unit deployed in them at the start this would read "dedicated transport have the BONUS of being able, to be deployed transporting the unit they were selected with"

Tri wrote:finaly found it ... pg 94 -Reserves- -Preparing reserves- 4th par ...." similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantarty units and/or independent charictors in reserve. If they do, the unit and transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together..."

Ahem...

insaniak wrote:The only rules specifically allowing a unit to start the game in a transport are in the section dealing with Reserves.

Tri wrote:edit ... there are really no deployment rule ... closest thing to a rule is pg92 A Note On Secrecy "...always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked on which transport..." other then that i see no rules for deployment (i'm ignoring the mission ones such as, 'deploy 12" away from the center' ) ... its almost like GW dropped a page ...

They didn't drop a page, they simply removed a lot of the structure of deployment that existed previously. You deploy your units in whichever order you want. No other rules are really necessary.

and as i said early the dedicated transport rule lays out rule for deployment well enough with "The only limitation of dedicated transports is that when deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with"

Which, as explained previously, isn't the rule you're looking for. It limits what can go in a dedicated Transport, it doesn't allow anything.

The lack of a rule saying you can't do something doesn't mean that you can. The rules specifically lay out how and when a unit can be embarked into a transport. During deployment is not a part of those rules.

The dedicated transport rule is a strong indicator that you're intended to be able to deploy in transports, and I strongly suspect that's the way that the vast majority of players will continue to go. But there is simply no rule in the current ruleset that actually allows it.

It's implied that you start your dedicated transports with the unit inside.

"After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly infantry unit..." pg 67

The question is about non-dedicated transports. Like a falcon has 6 transport spots, can a squad of 6 fire dragons be deployed inside the falcon at the start? I'd say no. Noone I play with plays that you can. I deploy my fire dragons next to the falcon and embark on the first turn.

the rules do say that you can do whatever you want as long as your opponent agrees

You could use that logic to answer any question of the rules, it just isn't very useful.

The way we've been playing it is that if you roll for a non-dedicated transport and a unit (seperately) and they both make their rolls to come in, that you can bring the squad in embarked on the transport.

But as Insaniak has pointed out several times, there is no rule that explicitly says you can do this.

The question (as I understood it) wasn't about coming in from reserves. It was about the deployment phase.

The rules don't provide a means for a unit to start embarked within a non-dedicated transport during deployment.

budro wrote:The way we've been playing it is that if you roll for a non-dedicated transport and a unit (seperately) and they both make their rolls to come in, that you can bring the squad in embarked on the transport.

But as Insaniak has pointed out several times, there is no rule that explicitly says you can do this.

Seth, you need to catch up with the times, get your rear up to Woodbridge so I can fill you in on how to play 5th................... You Freddie'burg boys are always messing things up. (Yes, people, I'm picking on someone I know). Seriously tho, units in Reserve can be placed in a non-dedicated transport with an IC joining them and it will all come in on a single roll.

as long as you tell your "enemy" you are putting them in there you are good to go.
Other wise what would be the point of looted wagons having transport capability.
They take up a heavy slot even without weapons and are otherwise a open topped rhino

sonofruss wrote:as long as you tell your "enemy" you are putting them in there you are good to go.

Do you have a page reference for this?

Other wise what would be the point of looted wagons having transport capability.
They take up a heavy slot even without weapons and are otherwise a open topped rhino

You can easily embark onto the looted wagon in the first turn and drive across the field. Just because you don't start in a transport doesn't mean you can't get into one.

budro wrote:The way we've been playing it is that if you roll for a non-dedicated transport and a unit (seperately) and they both make their rolls to come in, that you can bring the squad in embarked on the transport.

For Reserves, that's almost exactly how the rules do work.

The Reserves rules say to explain to your opponent how your Reserves are organised when you declare them in Reserve. So you can assign units to Transports, and they all come on together.

Reserves aren't the issue here, though. The discussion was on starting a unit in a transport during normal deployment, which is the one that doesn't have any rules covering it.