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sorry guys, I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't turn it up with my search, I'm just wondering with Zagstruck it says "Instead of a nob one mob may be led by..." and I seem to recall the general consensus was that he's not a free additional model because a Nob isn't either, but I'm not sure if to field him you would have to purchase the squad, upgrade 1 boy to a nob then replace the nob with zagstruck or if you would simply pay zagstruck's point cost to upgrade a boy to zagstruck.

If anyone could help me out with working out exactly how much he costs here it would be good.

he cost what it says he cost 85pts hes not an up grade so thats all you pay for him

I agree with Tri on Zag and Snikrot.

to use zagstruck you must take a mob of stormboyz. you may then include zagstruck for 85pts, but if you do so you may not include a nob. zagstruck is not an independant character so he may not leave the squad but may not be singled out in combat either. he may also not be turned inot a squig by old zogwort.

does that mean you could have a 20 strong mob of boyz + zagstruck on top of that?

I don't see why not.

Drunkspleen wrote:does that mean you could have a 20 strong mob of boyz + zagstruck on top of that?

I asked this last week, but I'm still confused. I'm happy that Zagstruk is an additional model and not an upgrade. As for minimum/maximum squad sizes, I don't think you can say for sure until they clear it up in an FAQ. My guess is that you include Zagstruk when sorting out min/max numbers, because he is bought instead of a Nob which is included as part of the squad.

Anyway, because he won't be around until JanuWaaagh!ry, I suggest looking in that month's White Dwarf. There's bound to be a battle report including him and you can work out how he is purchased from the army selection part of the article.

Flashman wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:does that mean you could have a 20 strong mob of boyz + zagstruck on top of that?

I asked this last week, but I'm still confused. I'm happy that Zagstruk is an additional model and not an upgrade. As for minimum/maximum squad sizes, I don't think you can say for sure until they clear it up in an FAQ. My guess is that you include Zagstruk when sorting out min/max numbers, because he is bought instead of a Nob which is included as part of the squad.

Anyway, because he won't be around until JanuWaaagh!ry, I suggest looking in that month's White Dwarf. There's bound to be a battle report including him and you can work out how he is purchased from the army selection part of the article.

stormboyz unit composition 5-20 stormboyz
instead of a nob one mob may be led by boss zagstruk
5- 20 not 5+1-20+1
he replaces the nob

You may not add Zagstruk (or Snikrot) if you upgrade a normal boy to a nob but he does not replace that model. He is an addition to the unit.

You must buy at least 5 stormboyz before adding Zagstruk taking you to at least 6 models and similary you are allowed to buy 20 stormboyz and then add Zagstruk taking you to 21 models.

The same goes for Kommandos and Snikrot.

Flashman wrote:
Anyway, because he won't be around until JanuWaaagh!ry, I suggest looking in that month's White Dwarf. There's bound to be a battle report including him and you can work out how he is purchased from the army selection part of the article.

Looking to WD battle reports for rules clarifications is a very dangerous road to go down...

I think that the 20 or 21 thing is up to interpretation, but I always err on the side of caution and keep the stormboys at a total of 20 models or the kommandoes at a total of 15 just to be fair, and because the hard limits on those unit sizes seems to be a part of the game balance.

Alpharius wrote:

Flashman wrote:
Anyway, because he won't be around until JanuWaaagh!ry, I suggest looking in that month's White Dwarf. There's bound to be a battle report including him and you can work out how he is purchased from the army selection part of the article.

Looking to WD battle reports for rules clarifications is a very dangerous road to go down...

You're surely not suggesting that the Dwarfers are just as clueless as we are?

To be honest, now I know that Zagstruk, Snikrot, Badrukk et al are separate models, not upgrades, the min/max doesn't bother me as I don't intend going near those numbers in terms of my unit sizes.

Some people are crazy on rulez eh

It clearly says 5-20Boys in a squad. That means 4+Zagstrukk or 19 plus Zagstruk. He is a Stormboy even if he is some cheesy extra tough Stormboy he still is one and counts as a part of the squad.
This discussions are the same way as those I have 10Sluggaz, add a heavy weapon - because I´m allowed to do so - and than I´ll add a Nob. I mean, sure you can play devils advocate but that´s not the way you should read the damn rulebook/codex.

No matter what Zagstrukk or Snikkrot for that matter counts as, in the end he is part of the Mob and no independent char, that means you aint allowed to oversize your mob. Easy as that, no room to discuss. Sounds arrogant? Yes, maybe. It´s not meant to sound so. So sorry me and meet me in the moshpit.

DaDok wrote:Some people are crazy on rulez eh

It clearly says 5-20Boys in a squad. That means 4+Zagstrukk or 19 plus Zagstruk. He is a Stormboy even if he is some cheesy extra tough Stormboy he still is one and counts as a part of the squad.

What makes him a Stormboy, his statline doesn't match, his equipment doesn't match, his rules don't all match, even his title doesn't match? If you can from this say that Zagstruk is a Stormboy, then you open up the door to alot more misuse of this sort of ruling.

This discussions are the same way as those I have 10Sluggaz, add a heavy weapon - because I´m allowed to do so - and than I´ll add a Nob. I mean, sure you can play devils advocate but that´s not the way you should read the damn rulebook/codex.

It's totally different, both of those clearly say that they are an upgrade, one an upgrade of a weapon and the other of a model. Zagstruk on the other hand says "instead of a Nob one mob may be led by" there is no mention of upgrade or anything.

No matter what Zagstrukk or Snikkrot for that matter counts as, in the end he is part of the Mob and no independent char, that means you aint allowed to oversize your mob. Easy as that, no room to discuss. Sounds arrogant? Yes, maybe. It´s not meant to sound so. So sorry me and meet me in the moshpit.

Would this mean a Tau Crisis Suit with 2 drones is the 3 models allowed in a crisis team and no other battlesuits can join that team, despite the drones not being classified as a "shas'ui"?

I love those discussions and that´s not meant in a ironically way or so.

- He´s called the Leader of a Stormboyz Mob called "Da Vultures" so I would say, yes he is a Stormboy.
- His equipment or well, one part clearly says he has a jump pack so again, I would say he´s a Stormboy

Sure, he´s no default Stormboy but a special, not solo acting Stormboy Nob. At least that´s what I would call him following the dex.
I have to reject my point with the Mob and heavy weapon comparison. You´re right, he´s not an upgrade but he´s part of the Mob or can be and because he is no solo Character I would say he counts as part of the mob. He calls as a Nobleader in some way or at least what I would say following the words in the dex. "Can lead the mob if no Nob is choosen." <-- Should be close to the dex.
Your comparison with the Tau Crisis Squad is different I would say. Drones are more or less upgrades eh? At least they are no Crisis Suits so if you can make Crisis Squads drones wont count as
Suits.

cheerz Dok