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Sooo... this is sort of an announcment as much as an oppertunity for you to put your two cents in.

GTGU wants to start to (as much as possible) offer "bits on demand" - so basically you name the specific bits you want and we quote you how much they cost.
I personally have kept my partners at bay here; who've been saying things like "oh man we should offer bits - it's so needed right now!!" and then I constantly remind them of the up front cost and the logistics involved, and tell them it needs to be a well executed plan that can only start with the proper preperation. So we did all the planning and are almost ready, but I for one think that your input is very important and needed as I already bet a guy lunch that one of you brings up some sort of point that we need not even consider yet, and that it will have been the one thing that bit us in the backside furthure down the road.

Remember that this is not an attempt to compete with any of the "BITS PROVIDERS" whom are known (and advertise on this site) and do a good job from what we can tell. This is rather a secondary service we want to offer on a small % of our orders to satisfy that "i just need these couple bits" demand that several people have let us know about in the past.

EXAMPLE:

Customer-> Id like to get 3 sets of Ork DEFF GUNZ a dreadnought TL LASCANNON, and 2 CHAOS TERMINATOR LIGHTNING CLAWS FROM THE LORD's BOX SET.

Here is how we would approach this from a "production & operations management" frame of mind.

Ork Deff guz = very easy to provide because the $22 retail box set is very easy to break up, and once 3 DEFF GUZ are sold we would have easy to sell bitz like burnas and ork bodies and a complete MEK BOY!

TL LASCANNON = easy to open the $40 kit because this item is highly sought after since black reach hit the streets, and the left over bits, includeing the complete dread body, wil move rather quickly.

CSM termi-lord lightning claws = hmmmm.... this is where it gets sticky. a $20 box set, for 2 arms.... what would we charge for them. we provide some of the cooler bits and sit on the rest which frankly are not going to be asked for to often because they are not that amazing, and people are not running 10 man squads of terminator lords - some CSM players never even consider buying the kit. So we figured we would need to charge $4 for these bitz to even crack open the box. Now we have heard "HECK, ID EVEN PAY $5!" and weve heard "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! YOU'LL NEVER SELL THEM AND PEOPLE WILL BACK OUT THE ENTIRE SALE!"

so you see here is the delema... 10 people jump all over this service and buy these hard to find bits that only can be obtained when buying a large dollar box set, and we get stuck with 10 portions of box sets that wont sell for a long time, and maybe not even cover the cost of the box!

Am I over reacting? because the staff here says I am, but I for one have worked too many 70 hour weeks to see us lose a ton of money on a bad decision.

I am eager to hear what you guys think about it (be mindfull of the business side... we dont want to get rich on this, but we dont want to have 80 pounds of partial box sets sitting around either - breaking even with 0 profit would be acceptable even.) Also one customer suggested we make a "menu" of bits with thier cost and then offer a package dicount if X items are selected off the menu, so the prices would be a bit higher, but would cost less if somebody took more parts out of one box set.

Im listening!
Michael,
Operations Manager

GorillaTactics wrote:so you see here is the delema... 10 people jump all over this service and buy these hard to find bits that only can be obtained when buying a large dollar box set, and we get stuck with 10 portions of box sets that wont sell for a long time, and maybe not even cover the cost of the box!

That's the exact problem with bits services. You either spend a lot of time juggling prices (which is difficult if you're only doing specific kits as people ask for them... you're relying on a lot of guesswork as to what you can sell the rest of the kit for) or you wind up with a lot of unwanted leftovers.

Frankly, if you're not looking at any sort of wide range of bits as a regular offering, you're going to get stuck with a lot of stuff. Particulaly when buying online, people want to be able to get everything from one place. It's easier, and it's generally cheaper in the long run. To sell your leftovers, you're relying on somebody coming along who is actually wanting those particular bits, and can't get them from somewhere else that also has the other bits they're after.

You're also laying yourself open for a big time investment. The biggest investment in selling bits (at least from my experience) is in the time you spend cutting stuff off sprues. It may seem like a little thing, but the more you do a specific sprue, the easier and faster it gets, as you figure out the most efficient way of splitting it up. Just doing one-offs on demand, you're figuring out a new sprue every time... and that's time consuming...

So my biggest piece of advice would be: Be very, very careful with your pricing. Charge just a little more than you think is reasonable and accept that a lot of people are going to turn their noses up at the prices, or charge a bare minimum and accept that you're going to lose money on it until you can get a regular range together and that you'll spend an awful lot of time on it for no real return.

Well you apparently have some sort of hands on history with this, or you have thought about it a lot because you are echoing my warnings to the crew here.

I will however disagree that time is "the biggest investment"

It is of coarse something you cant get around - gotta cut out the bitz and sort them.

however as a test run we already engaged in some of this "grunt work" for bits and 2 people were able to bitz out 3 ASOBR + 8 ork box sets, and 6 marine box sets in a little under two hours (and they got them into individual storage trays and some bagged up in little ziplocks too)

a good trick they found to save a lot of time was to not cut out the bits like you would if you were about to put the stuf together. Instead you cut on th etree part and leave a little "flash" on the bit. apparently speeds up to overall process!

But yeah, you are saying exactaly what i dont want us to do!

GorillaTactics wrote:Well you apparently have some sort of hands on history with this, or you have thought about it a lot because you are echoing my warnings to the crew here.

Well, yeah... I started the whole bits store thing.

I started selling plastic bits on eBay when the Space Marine Command Squad box was released, as it was such a wonderful source of interesting bits that people were bound to want without necessarily wanting the whole box.

At that time, so far as I'm aware, there was nobody else out there doing this. 6 months later, there were half a dozen. A year after that and bitz stores, either on eBay or on their own sites, were everywhere... although many come and go relatively quickly (I presume as they find out for themselves just how much work, time and money is actually involved).

however as a test run we already engaged in some of this "grunt work" for bits and 2 people were able to bitz out 3 ASOBR + 8 ork box sets, and 6 marine box sets in a little under two hours (and they got them into individual storage trays and some bagged up in little ziplocks too)

That was sort of my point, though: when you're doing multiples of the same set, it gets quicker and easier as you get used to those specific sprues. Doing the odd sprue piecemeal works out much more time consuming.

But even doing multiples of the same sprue, you'll find that they slow down somewhat over time, as they just get heartily sick of the sight of that particular sprue

a good trick they found to save a lot of time was to not cut out the bits like you would if you were about to put the stuf together. Instead you cut on th etree part and leave a little "flash" on the bit. apparently speeds up to overall process!

On some parts, like the Marine Scout bolter/shotgun arms, it's also much easier to keep track of them with the letter-marked piece of sprue still attached.

Although it's worth keeping in mind that leaving too much sprue on also increases the weight of the part. It may seem insignificant, but can actually make quite a lot of difference to postage costs.

You could also go trolling through all the various bits sites, see what is always out of stock, and then just stock those bits.

The Command Squad and Commander sprues are a good example. Most of what's on there sells out quite quickly, so if you focused on the sorts of things that are always going to sell, even if it is only a small amount of product, then that should give you a good start.

Another thing to look at is the way you sell bits, as in the packages you put up. One that seems to sell quite a lot is the Company Champion from the Command Squad box (my Crusading army is going to be fun... I need close to 30 sets of Torsos, heads and shoulder pads... EEK!!!). I've seen some sites selling the bits by themselves (torso, shoulder pads, head, shield, sword) and they sell the head the most, the torso next, the shoulder pads next, and the other two don't get sold that often. This ends up with bits suppliers having tons of swords and shields and none of the rest. Another site I know sells the Company Champion is a single model. Legs, torso, backpack, sword, head, shield, shoulder pads - one go. It's more expensive that way, but it ensures that you don't end up with parts of that model laying around.

The same site usually packages all the odds and ends from sprues (the Dark Angel sprue being a good example of this) into a single bundle, rather than trying to sell them all separately. This way they move the product quicker as it all goes in one single sale rather than dribs and drabs.

And as far as prices, just look at what TheWarStore is doing and then don't do that. Their prices are nuts compared to everywhere else.

BYE

so what do you think a torso for the champion should cost - as to get 30 of them it takes 30 box sets!

Maybe you could sell the needed bits out of more expensive kits for for more (5$ a pair like you said). Then sell the rest of the bits for a premium to recoup your losses. The way you could do that is simple advertise it "Need some terminators? We have plenty! Get 5 complete and unique looking terminators from the terminator sprue for x$s, less than the cost of a box of 5 Terminators!". Sound good/reasonable? (I'd buy some of them btw, I don't even need them and I'd buy them)

GorillaTactics wrote:so what do you think a torso for the champion should cost - as to get 30 of them it takes 30 box sets!

You're 100% right, it does take 30 boxes. Luckily the Command Squad box has a lot of useful stuff in it (exactly why Insaniak said he started selling it), so you don't look at that one as a box with one very popular bit, look at it as a box with loads of popular bits.

To use an example of something that's popular but is packaged with stuff that isn't, the Kneeling Scout Legs Sniper Scout kit. Or the single torso without the Camo-Cloak from the Sniper Scout kit. No one wants Sniper Scout bodies - they sell cheaply and I see them everywhere. Try to find non-camo Scout bodies - bodies that can take regular arms Scout arms - and that's much harder. Same goes for the kneeling legs. But you only get one of each in the whole Sniper Scout kit, so getting that kit for those two bits is a really bad idea, even if you could charge whatever you wanted for those two bits.

Another thing, separate to sourcing bits, is keeping in mind 'market forces', and by 'market forces' I mean 'whatever the lunatics writing the rules have done this week'. The Assault Cannon is a great example. I'm sure that entire bitz sites got their start on that bit alone. Everyone wanted an Assault Cannon without having to buy a second box of Terminators - spare Assault Cannons were basically a lisence to print money. Look at the price they go for at TheWarStore. It's huge, but at the time, worth it.

But now the Codex has changed. People aren't using 6-man 2 Assault Cannon Terminator Command Squads any more because they don't exist. The value of that spare Assault Cannon has fallen. Now look at TheWarStore's price again. They haven't kept up with this 'market force'. They still charge the amount they've always charged for it, even though it's not the hot item it once was.

Use the rules to drive your prices. That's the way GW sells models - make a new kit or find a kit that isn't selling well, give it great rules (most of the time) and watch it fly out the door. Whatever is the hot item of the moment will sell heaps, so buy the ones you can reasonably offload without having tons of bitz left over (eg. don't get the Dark Angel sprue - Bits & Kits have been having a sale on the odds-and-ends from that sprue for months because none of it shifts).

BYE

I was always wondering if GW had any particular opinion on reselling bits. I mean, I know online retailers upset them in general (I have NEVER used GW's online store since THEY stopped selling bits), but have you ever had any trouble, Insaniak?

None at all. I don't have a trade account, which would be the only potential problem, really.

GW in the main don't object to online sellers in the rest of the world to the extreme that GW US do. And really, what I've sold over the years that I've been doing it is just a drop in the ocean compared to GW's own online sales. Or the sales of even a small trade account.

HBMC brings up some good points - especially "the rules" and yeah we sort of picked up on the thought through the EXACT SITUATION of the assualt cannon..

just like Michael Dell and his brilliant computer company, if you dont change when the rules do, then you lose.

I was not aware that there were still bits sites selling the assualt cannon this high though, $13 OMG!
and they sell lightning claw and thunder hammer sets for $5.99!

In BETA we have done the termie assualt cannon for $5.50 and the assualt arms for $3.75
geez. I think i just won the bet! FREE LUNCH FOR ME! (thanks to you HBMC) because clearly here is my point.
We had no clue how much better we were pricing the bits! And that is because we are guilty of not researching the market properly and noticing what others are selling at, or what the FAIR MARKET VALUE is!

we are even a bit low now that i think about it, and as one other post above says, we should price things like this a bit higher in the ALA CART mode... maybe $7 for asualt cannon, and $4 for assualt arm sets.

($7 compared to $50 kit is still pretty fair, but $13? yeah maybe 6 months ago that price worked....)

I actually am very inspired right now and so glad that I started this thread. I think you guys helped us go in the right direction with your insight!

like I always say "1437 brains are better then 1"
I also say that "people get dumber in mass qty.", but that wasnt true here

Well,

we had a decision made on bitz and we are going to do special order bitz service... no cart or anything for now, but if people need bitz we will try to provide them at a price that is both good for us and also makes it an easy decision to get the bits

and thank you to HBMC - I did get a free lunch!