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Looking to get some feedback on this,

I'm trying to convert and paint up a nice force for the 2009 GT/Indy circuit, and it includes a unit of wraithguard as a troop choice. The models however, are incredibly large for the small base they come with, and lean forward, and as such, refuse to stand in most situations, even on the most level board they'll typically fall over more often than not.

Couple of options:

Model some sort of cloak to balance the model, this creates problems with standing them next to other models, doesn't fix the balance issue too well, and is a lot of work (and not what I had in mind for them. Also, with the new true LOS rules, I'm wondering if even this will face complaints.

Put them on a terminator base. They won't fall over, it'll make a lot more sense.

In 4th edition this wasn't an issue, it stated that models could be put on a large base if desired, just not a smaller one than was supplied with the miniature. However, with the advent of 5th edition, it states that models should be mounted on the bases supplied, and changing base size is up to opponent permission.


Now, this is going to be a tournament army, do you think I'm going to have issues if I swap to larger bases? People raising a stink? Or will no one care too much?

Most people won't care.

If in doubt, run it past the tournament organiser before you enter.

I know I wouldn't care. Wraithguard are pretty much the eldar terminators anyways.

Modeling cloaks on them wouldn't affect TLoS either. You can't shoot capes or banners or other decorations. Feel free to model capes, if you actually would like the look of them.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Modeling cloaks on them wouldn't affect TLoS either. You can't shoot capes or banners or other decorations.

It doesn't affect LOS to them.
It does affect LOS past them.

IE, in the extreme:

Wraithlord with massive billowing cloak could shield entire units form TLOS

The only issue would be once you get there, you cant change the bases (or in between games)

Im beginning to think I'm just going to go ahead and do it, and complaints be damned.

Heck, If my opponents are concerned about template weapons, ill let them double the hits achieved, I just don't want nicely painted models face diving in spectacular fashion every 5 minutes

targetawg wrote:The only issue would be once you get there, you cant change the bases (or in between games)

Which is why you check with the TO before you enter.

If you have the TO's ok for it beforehand, it doesn't matter what anyone says on the day.

One possiblity is to use magnets to attach the small base to a larger base. That way if they mind, you can remove them. Or.... you can use the small bases to determine coherency and for templates

or if balance really is the issue, just put a decent weight in the hollow section under the base, worked with my brother's old blood angels honour guard, plastic legs with metal torsos in jump infantry poses does not make for good balance.

Even a metal weight in the underside of the base wont do much for balance, these are about 2-3 times the metal of those BA jump infantry I'm afraid

:-/

What are you doing to them because I have never had a problem getting my wraithguard to stand.

insaniak wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Modeling cloaks on them wouldn't affect TLoS either. You can't shoot capes or banners or other decorations.

It doesn't affect LOS to them.
It does affect LOS past them.

Right. I forgot about that "interesting" little rule.

That's how you get the bat-tyrant to never get shot, right?

Fallen668 wrote:What are you doing to them because I have never had a problem getting my wraithguard to stand.

Assembling them and placing them on the gaming table.

Bump the table, fallen wraithguard.

Uneven surface or sloped surface, fallen wraithguard.

This thread really isn't a "they shouldn't be falling" but more of a "question about whether you'd be alright with your opponent having wraithguard on terminator bases"

targetawg wrote:Even a metal weight in the underside of the base wont do much for balance, these are about 2-3 times the metal of those BA jump infantry I'm afraid

:-/

What about doing some creative modelling for the base texture? What I mean is, if you put a large chunk of medal on the base and then model/paint it to look like a rock, or whatever, this would help with the balancing....

The reason GW took away the base upsize option was because it was easily abusable with cheap troops and large bases.

Now, if you're talking about upsizing select models, such as Characters, Individuals, and Large Models, then that's not a big deal.

So if you are fielding *Wraithguard*, go ahead and field them on 40mm. OTOH, if you field them on 60mm or larger, people should give you dirty looks.
____

OTOH, if you're a Daemon player who decides to *downsize* your Bloodcrushers so you can DS more without risk, that's a whole different kettle o' fish!

Yea, this is purely a model stability issue

And i favor the solution of a large base then some elaborate weight system because:

-Less work
-More space to model nice basing on
-Works the best

Thinking I've decided, thanks folks, we're going 40mm. If I recieve any complaints from opponents (the only effect i can see is with templates not covering quite as much) I'll be glad to allow them to double the number they can touch, up to the squad size of course.

going to the Gt for a few years now i have seen people do it i have played against people doing it (granted the guy i played doing it was one of Pete Foley's mates but thats beside the point) go for it, in regards to templates, it doesnt matter as much now that partial hits have been taken out of the game so in theory you will still cover just as much

Take the best of both worlds. Start with a Fantasy movement tray, plasticard what-have-you and cut it down to a flat modeled/sanded/flocked/grassed large base and mount your Legit sized base on that. Thus you now have a reference to the legal base size, on a steadier base that you can allow your opponent to move onto, or not if you go 1" out in all directions.

I go with Breton's suggestion. If you do a 40mm base with a disc of plasticard that the model stands on that is the appropriate base size to use as a point of reference, you can probably get away without it affecting game play much at all. Just use the inner disc that the model is standing on for determining unit coherency and template hits and there shouldn't be any real issues. Maybe someone lashing you into formation and the bases being too big for him to wedge you in or measuring the fraction of an inch charge/shooting ranges but overall nothing huge.

This might give you an opportunity to do a scenic base into the larger base as well. Do a tile theme with a circular plasticard tile representing the original base size. Just a thought.