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We know it's coming, but we don't know when. Hopefully, GW will wise up to putting out a new WD list before they put out the new codex in a couple of years. Here is my suggestion on how it should go down:



Army Special Rules: Same as Codex SM.

Vehicle Armory the same, except that overcharged engines is now available as an upgrade to any Rhino based Space Marine Tank at a cost of 5 points. Rules stay the same.



-HQ (Characters)-

Dante - His axe is now a Relic blade. Still give Preferred enemy to those within 12". Supreme Tactician - Dante is the oldest and wisest Chapter Master, even Marneus Calgar bows to his superior experience, as such an army that includes Dante may re-roll their seize the initiative roll in any mission. Mask of Sanguinus - Any enemy unit in close combat with Dante suffer another -1 modifier for their moral tests. Gains Eternal Warrior from his Adamantium Armor. Let's Assault Marines be taken as troops. Costs 220-ish.

Mephiston - Stays the same but with all the Librarian powers (see below).

Corbulo - Stays the same except that the Grail is also a power weapon, and he confers FNP to any unit he joins. Costs 120-130

Lemartes - Stays the same excepts gains Rending, FC, and Feel No Pain because he is using the Black Rage. Cost slightly higher.

Tycho - Becomes "Captain of the Death Company" because it frees up a working masters of the chapter and gives him an excuse to have better rules. Gains Rending, FC, and Feel No Pain. Allows Death Company to count as scoring (representing his final battle).

Morleo Moriar - Gains all the benifets of being a venerable dreadnought and a death company dreadnought, and like all DC dreadnoughts get fleet. Allows DC dreads to be takin as a Heavy Support Choice as well as an Elites choice.

Brother Sergent Rafen - (From the Black Library stories) - Is an upgrade to a Tactical or Devestator squad, allows the unit to re-roll moral tests and a 5+ cover save. Armed with Power Weapon and Bolter.


-HQ (Generic)-

Captain - Copy/Paste from Codex SM but instead of letting bikes be troops if he is on a bike, he lets assault marines be troops if he has a jet pack.

Chaplain - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Librarian - Copy/Paste from Codex SM, but replace one power with Might of Heroes

Master of the Forge - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Command Squad - Copy/Paste from Codex SM but instead of Bike upgrades they can have Jump Packs at 5 points a model. Also gains Tech Adept upgrade.


-Elites-

Terminator Squad - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Terminator Assault Squad - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Dreadnought - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Furioso Dreadnought - Copy/Paste from Blood Angels PDF

Death Company Dreadnought - Same options as Furioso Dread, except gains the fleet rule and FC rule.

Techmarine - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Veteran Assault Squad - Copy/Paste from Blood Angels PDF, with the exception that Sergents can get Relic Blades and Jump Packs are an option. They also have the assault when they deepstrike rule.

Death Company - Now becomes a purchasable squad rather then any requirements to take one. They still don't take up a FOC slot and you can only have one squad. They cost 20 points base with the option of purchasing Jump Packs at 5 points a model. The nurfs to rending and feel no pain require a price drop.


-Troops-

Tactical Squad - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Scout Squads - Copy/Paste from Codex SM


-Transports-

Drop Pod - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Rhino- Copy/Paste from Codex SM. Can take Overcharge Engines.

Razorback- Copy/Paste from Codex SM. Can take Overcharge Engines.


-Fast Attack-

Assault Squad - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Land Speeder - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Land Speeder Storm - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Scout Bikers - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Attack Bikes - Copy/Paste from Codex SM


-Heavy Support-

Devastators - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Thunderfire Cannon - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Land Raiders (all variants) - Copy/Paste from Codex SM

Predator - Gains the Assault Cannon Turret option as well as the Heavy Flamer side sponsons option. Can take Overcharge Engines.

Vindicator - Copy/Paste from Codex SM. Can take Overcharge Engines.

Whirlwind - Copy/Paste from Codex SM. Can take Overcharge Engines.



So there is the first draft. What do you think?

dantes axe shouldnt be a relic blade. its too small to be a relic blade.

does mephiston lose the powers that he has currently that make him such a CC monster? if he does he should be cheaper. if not then he needs to be a lot more expensive.

why is a cup a power weapon? and since when have apothecaries carried around power weapons?

why has lemartes suddenly succumbed to the black rage?

why is tycho suddenly captain of the death company?

why have you added another character when BA already have 6?

jump packs for the command squad should come at a static price of 50pts.

death company are too cheap at 20pts per model. 23pts per model (before 5pt jump packs) would be better.

it seems that appart from the loss of stenguard everything that BA get is better than those of their generic SM cousins. they get more options for the same cost. it doesnt seem different enough to SM at the moment.

dantes axe shouldnt be a relic blade. its too small to be a relic blade.

His Axe needs to be special in one way or another. It should be a little more then just another power weapon. A Relic Blade matches with the new Space Marine codex the best.

Dante is the oldest and greatest Chapter Master right now, he should be able to handle Calgar in a fight and be on that level.

does mephiston lose the powers that he has currently that make him such a CC monster? if he does he should be cheaper. if not then he needs to be a lot more expensive.

The Librarian powers are something I am still trying to wrap my head around. I think they should be similar in power and scope as the basic Librarian powers but should have a few that trend towards assault roles. Regardless, Mephiston should have access to all of them and be able to cast multiple a turn.

why is a cup a power weapon? and since when have apothecaries carried around power weapons?

He is a little more then "just an apothecary". He lacks any real teeth in close combat, right now he is a cheap support character. A Power Weapon would make him slightly more useful. He is meant to be on the front lines, give him a bone. And since when does a cup give an invulnerable save? I don't see most armor standing up to a blow from a cup that contains the blood of a primarch and a powerful force field.

why has lemartes suddenly succumbed to the black rage?

He is the only other character to master the Black Rage, it's in his fluff. Where Mephiston has overcome the Black Rage in a Neo-esqe "I am the one" way, Lemartes has overcome the rage in a "I am the Hulk but I can still think" way. So it makes since that he gets those rules. Right now, he is just a slightly better chaplain, I am trying to make him a unique character.

More here: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lemartes

why is tycho suddenly captain of the death company?

There are two reasons or the change.

From a fluff perspective, if you want to field the Masters of the Chapter, currently you have to put Tycho to be fully fluff, and that just slows down the squad (even though you don't have to).

The second reason is that he has been continually useless from a game play perspective. So how do you change that? You look at his fluff, he was the Captain of the third company until his superiors noticed something wrong with him. But when he was assigned to the Death Company, he hadn't fully succumbed to the Black Rage (not until his last battle), so for a small amount of time he was the head honcho of the Death Company. That is the character I want to field. And that is the character that I think will be the most useful to the list. It allows anybody who fields him to recreate Tycho's last stand in their games, even if their opponent's army doesn't necessarily match.

More here: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tycho

why have you added another character when BA already have 6?

For two reasons.

It matches the newer codexes having at least one "upgrade" character.

And I think he is cool.

Besides, the amount of characters per codex are at that level now, why should BA be different?

jump packs for the command squad should come at a static price of 50pts.

You should never have to pay more then 5 points for a jump pack upgrade, the current BA list got that right.

death company are too cheap at 20pts per model. 23pts per model (before 5pt jump packs) would be better.

I would concede that point. Maybe 25 to keep things even. But no way are they worth 30 anymore.

it seems that appart from the loss of stenguard everything that BA get is better than those of their generic SM cousins. they get more options for the same cost. it doesnt seem different enough to SM at the moment.

Sure it is, Blood Angels sacrifice a lot of their shooting elements to lean more towards Assault but they are still a Codex chapter. I think the loss of Sternguard makes up for getting VAS as an elites choice. The characters I propose have the same level of effectiveness and support in the list as the current SM codex. So the armies will play differently enough.

I would argue what I propose to be about even.

When I look at the Codex Blood Angels on the GW website, it SAYS it is already updated for the 5th edition..

Did they do that, or just slap a label on it?

-Porkuslime

It is just a label, none of the wargear changes have been adapted from the new SM codex.

This is for the proposed full printed codex.

... i think that they could do with an Iron clad as well, may be for Morleo Moriar? I know all SM armys aren't equal but if any ones going to have Iron clad dreads its going to be blood angels

Ummmmm... Question... WHY!!!. This thread makes blood angels not blood angels.. Why would I want to give up everything that makes blood angels what blood angels are.


They are not a codex army!!!!!.. They are the blood angels and they never ever agreed to follow the normal model!. There blood crazed assault marines with attitude. Well the normal ones . where not even talking about the Death Company

1. Commanders:

1. WHY FORCE USE TO TAKE DANTE!!...

2. Malphisto is the only one to Suirvive and live with the Blood rage. He is Fine. why weaken the fluff of him by making him a normal physker!

3. The Grail.. is a little more then a apothicary. It allows any unit in 12 inches around the unit Ferious charge and gives him 4+ inv. save So he is yet fine. Look over and sees a bone in the man hand.

4. Lemartes - is a chaplain who does deal with the rage, but dosn't have it. he controles the poor saps who is in the rage!. So he doesn't need blood rage. what he does have is prefect with the fluff

5. Brother Thyco. Well just says this. Death Company doesn't have a captains. Before battle they see who is in the rage and group them into a squad that gets the name DEATH COMPANY. Then assign them a chaplain to try to keep them pointed towards the enemy. they are not a company, its a honorific name. Death Company doesn't get captains.

6. Question Dread don't get fleet and Death Company dosn't get fleet even in the codex. . So where is this coming from. Oh this is your creation.

Army list:

HQ: Why do we need the Captains there cute but not needed. Sorry the fluff of Angels would not have all of them. That is for the generic marines not the angels. 90% percent of the armies should have a chaplain and thats it, unless they want to do some fun stuff.

Troop Choice:

Why change them. There cool because they get to choose to be assault marines or assault marines in transports with a bolter. Don't need change! Not fluff

Death Company comes from the squads that prepare for battle and have gone a little nutz. Thats why they are what they are.

a. Blood Rage!.. Ferious charge and rending. There pissed off, because there blood boils with the anger and smite of there Primarch! Marking them into a free unit of the Vanguard...

I am sorry.. I am so sorry if I seem to be on a rant. Blood Angels are not a codex chapter. There are on the edge of destruction. Why force them into the fluff of a generic codex chapter. Doesn't the Inquisiter already trying to have them declared heritic.The only thing that the angels need is the same price for pods and transports, other then that they are fifth. They were made after the 5th edition Eldar book was made. They were made with 5th in mind. It would be nice that we get an actual codex, but right now they are fluff to what the original ideas of the beloved angels in 2nd edition and beyond. We finally get to take assault marines as troop choices. Why make them ultra marines with red paint?

My 2 cents
Astalado

They are not a codex army!!!!!.. They are the blood angels and they never ever agreed to follow the normal model!. There blood crazed assault marines with attitude. Well the normal ones . where not even talking about the Death Company

Read:

"Like all Codex chapters, Blood Angels are divided into ten Companies. Each Company is led by a hero of the Chapter, who - in addition to his Company command - is in charge of a particular aspect of the Chapter's logistics. Such Blood Angels commanders may be accompanied by a type of command squad unit particular to the Chapter, the Honour Guard. A more notable breach with Codex stricture is the informally organised non-Codex unit designated as the Death Company. "

From: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Angels

Blood Angels are a Codex Army with a few exceptions. They generally field more Assault Marines and they have a few specialty units, but at their core they are a Codex chapter and should look very similar to the current Space Marine codex.

1. Commanders:

1. WHY FORCE USE TO TAKE DANTE!!...

I don't see your point. Assault Marines as troops is still availible, either with taking Dante or a Commander with a Jet Pack. Basically my though is Scouts. There is no reason to keep them an elites choice, so if they must be in troops, then BA will have a perceived advantage in their troop selections over regular Marines. So I took a page out of the new SM codex and made Assault Marines as troops an option just like Bikes are an option now. It is just slightly more restrictive.

2. Malphisto is the only one to Suirvive and live with the Blood rage. He is Fine. why weaken the fluff of him by making him a normal physker!

Who said I was. Name on one hand the amount of Psykers that can cast multiple powers a turn. Mephiston, if the powers are right, will be the one character that can not only cast multiple powers a turn but be also geared towards close combat. I should also make the arguement for Eternal Warrior with him since his lack of invulnerable save is troubling.

3. The Grail.. is a little more then a apothicary. It allows any unit in 12 inches around the unit Ferious charge and gives him 4+ inv. save So he is yet fine. Look over and sees a bone in the man hand.

All I am trying to do is see a problem that I have been having with him, he really doesn't support the unit he joins all that well. If people think he is fine, then I can't argue that.

4. Lemartes - is a chaplain who does deal with the rage, but dosn't have it. he controles the poor saps who is in the rage!. So he doesn't need blood rage. what he does have is prefect with the fluff

There should be some benefit to his dealing with the rage, and getting the bonuses sounded fine to me. The problem I have right now with the character is that he is essentially a Jump Pack Chaplain with a minor special rule. I don't think that is enough compared to the fluff that he has.

5. Brother Thyco. Well just says this. Death Company doesn't have a captains. Before battle they see who is in the rage and group them into a squad that gets the name DEATH COMPANY. Then assign them a chaplain to try to keep them pointed towards the enemy. they are not a company, its a honorific name. Death Company doesn't get captains.

"It is my strongest recommendation to assign Brother-Captain Tycho to active battle duty permanently."3 Tycho was inducted into the Death Company and he asked to lead the assault on the Ork held defences of Hive Tempestora"

From: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Erasmus_Tycho

Maybe "Chaptain of the Death Company" was a misstatement, but clearly in the fluff there was a time where he controlled them. GW already has his figure painted black, so why not capitalize on his most famous piece of fluff.

How else do you propose the character becomes useful?

6. Question Dread don't get fleet and Death Company dosn't get fleet even in the codex. . So where is this coming from. Oh this is your creation.

I thought fleet was a good way to distinguish them from Iron Clads and Furiosos. I can see that as a bit much though. FC and +D3 attacks maybe enough.

Army list:

HQ: Why do we need the Captains there cute but not needed. Sorry the fluff of Angels would not have all of them. That is for the generic marines not the angels. 90% percent of the armies should have a chaplain and thats it, unless they want to do some fun stuff.

Where do you get your fluff from? Sure Chaplains are great and fit the them of the army well, but they still have Company Chaptains and Librarians. Why would you take that away?

They are a Codex Chapter!

Troop Choice:

Why change them. There cool because they get to choose to be assault marines or assault marines in transports with a bolter. Don't need change! Not fluff

Because they still have and use Tactical Sqauds. Because they still have an 8th Company for their excess Assault Marines, they don't populate their whole chapter with nothing but Assault Marines.

Death Company comes from the squads that prepare for battle and have gone a little nutz. Thats why they are what they are.

a. Blood Rage!.. Ferious charge and rending. There pissed off, because there blood boils with the anger and smite of there Primarch! Marking them into a free unit of the Vanguard...

What is different then now with the Death Company?

I am sorry.. I am so sorry if I seem to be on a rant. Blood Angels are not a codex chapter. There are on the edge of destruction. Why force them into the fluff of a generic codex chapter. Doesn't the Inquisiter already trying to have them declared heritic.The only thing that the angels need is the same price for pods and transports, other then that they are fifth. They were made after the 5th edition Eldar book was made. They were made with 5th in mind. It would be nice that we get an actual codex, but right now they are fluff to what the original ideas of the beloved angels in 2nd edition and beyond. We finally get to take assault marines as troop choices. Why make them ultra marines with red paint?

I am not trying to make them Ultramarines with Red paint. I am trying to find a list that has these ingredients:

1. Consistent Wargear and Prices with the existing Space Marine Codex
2. Useful characters that add to the army and opens up variants (consistent with the newer codexes)
3. An Army list that reflects all of their fluff.

There are a lot of misconceptions about the Blood Angels that I find. A lot of people don't look past the Death Company and the fact that they prefer close combat, here are a few fun facts:

1. They are a codex chapter through and through.
2. They are actually the most artistic of the Space Marine chapters, crafting beautiful armor and weapons. That is why Dante looks as he does, that is why Tycho wears a "Phantom of the Opera" mask to hide his scars.

I look at them as having very "greek" ideals to them, the Death Company are an example of Greek tragedy, but they are noble, well reasoned, and highly artistic.

I'm not a fan of everything on your list Mahu, but I like more then I dislike.

More specific thoughts later.

Jack

Why do they need to have a point cost and wargear equal to generic marines. Blood angels have been there own chapter and there own history. Why do we have to drive a circular peg into a square hole. Dark Angels, Templars, Wolves do not have a constant point coast and they bring flavor to their army and make it so when I go to the table I am playing different armies then your basic marines. Why can't there be special marine armies with fluff that are different then the marines in blue generic. Every special character in the Blood Angels codex have a point to the history of the angels and to the Flavor of the army even if I don't like one.

The Grail. Lets see. 12 inches and every unit in that gets Ferious charge. thats not nothing that gives them the int and strenght bump. Thats not cool? and gives him a 4+ inv save. Hit a line with three squads of troops and all have ferious charge. because one of them is in 12 inch range. I can see the plus for that


Thyco- actually I never liked and thought he was a pointless model. He is a basic captain that did a mentionable thing and that makes him special but thats the point he is not that special. He just has a combi weapon and a captain. Blood angels don't need another wow model. The chapter is what is wow.

I like the idea you get one death company memeber per troop choice because it goes with the fluff based on the squads before the battles going through the ritual and some of them go to the company. I still think if you did that you should take one away from each squad and field nine man squads to represent it.

HQ choice: I am not taking them away. I just don't think they need the special captains. Like the Captain of the Forge. Why would blood angels want a defensive captain. Maybe make some new captains more geared for the angels.

I am sorry for misreading the assault marines like bikes in troop choices. We fought for so long to able to take Assault marines as troop choices.

The special chaplain: Take him as the chaplain of the death company and now you have a really cool squad with litenays of hate. (wow.. think of this rending with to hit re-rolls. Umm yeah baby. ) and when combat over they get additional -1 to leadership. That makes them awsome to whip through units.

Malphisto powers rock.

They make a assault squad hit like hammers. with him in it and allows him to keep up. also the powers that he has makes him a hand to hand freak!.. D3 extra attacks stops the chaos lord attack and auto hits with a force weapon.. umm yeah.. makes him one of the most powerfull hand to hand freak!

They do have tatical squads and is the army that can give them assault jump packs. Why force them to be slow. There an assault army let them be. they are on the edge and have become more assaulty. The story of the angels I love the way there going. An army of assault marines.


you have posted that blood angels are like codex chapters. and should look like codex chapters, but by saying the word like, that makes them not a strict codex chapters. Same thing can be said to the Dark Angels and the Templar that they are "like" a codex chapter.

Just so you know. I do not like the new Space Marine Codex and how that captains work. Why do I have to spend 200 pts so I can take a ability that makes a army fluffy like a certain chapter. Why not say. if you play Ravensguard you have the fleet rule. Why do I have to go buy an hq choice to gain the ability. Why can't I field a Crimson Fist army that have Sternguard as troops and take a chaplain to lead them. No, i have to field a captain who is expensive. Why would in every battle now that we play at the tables would the chapter master of a chapter be in it. ? answer that question.

Why force that on the Blood angels! I will take the extra points to buy a pod and have the flaws. I will lose the ability to buy a new dread that sucks and have the right to buy DC Dreads. You can have the generic marines and there abilities I like the way the blood angels are designed and I hope to god they don't change them to make them in line with the generic blue. I have turned down multiple offers for me to paint the blue. I am not generic.

Wow.... I really don't mind many of those changes with the exception of a few. Dante should not get a relic blade, as relic blades are typically the big two handed swords you see Vanguard toting around. I think he is really powerful the way you portrayed him, without the uber blade. Also I think that wanting fleet for a dreadnought is a bit much. I play Raven Guard and even my dreadnought's can't fleet and that is our chapter trait. I do particularly like the idea of giving a command squad a jump pack (this option is missing from the new SM Codex as well as Shrike's Wing so my commander has no body guard and his infiltrate ability is almost useless!) yet the cost should be 10pts per model as the vanguard pay 10 pts, and IIRC, most characters jump packs are more. If only we could carry this over to the SM codex, I would be so happy.

I do think however that the current PDF will work fine for the time being. GW has other, more pressing Codexes to fix, like IG, Dark Eldar, Necrons, and sadly the Tau (will they ever get it quite right?). I would admit though... a BA Codex in book form would be sweet....

I like Dante having a Relic Blade. It means he can finally hold his own with other special characters.

I think Lemartes should have an extra attack, and also grant a Death Company unit he joins +1 attack, as he helps them control and direct their rage.

I also don't think that Blood Angels Dreadnoughts should have Fleet, especially given that Ravenguard Dreadnoughts don't. I think it would be fitting for Furioso Dreadnoughts, though... Maybe only those with Black Rage?

These suggestions make Blood Angels look like vanilla marines except with more options. I think that the only real changes that need to be made to the BA is to update some of the wargear and regular SM vehicles (not death comp dreads etc.). The only other thing I wish they'd change is allow you to take a 7 man term squad and make vet assault squads and honor guard a more viable option to use.

I played Blood Angels for 7 years in 2nd and 3rd edition and the whole theme behind the army is that they are SM turning to the "dark side". I think they should go back to making all units roll a die and on a 1 they have to move full speed to the closest unit. Sure it hurts some units but if you are a BA player running things like whirlwinds, vindicators, or Dev Squads; then you obviously shouldn't be playing blood angels.

I applaud your effort Mahu, but if BA were given a codex with the above suggestions, they would be more broken than regular marines. I think they just need to refine some of their unit entries and keep things the way they are. Blood Angels are suppost to be fast and hard hitting, not sit back and shoot type armies. Incorporating a dozen different HS choices and standard vanilla or ultra-marine choices of other FO types is not going to help give Blood Angels the theme that I feel they are suppose to have.

Mahu wrote:We know it's coming, but we don't know when. Hopefully, GW will wise up to putting out a new WD list before they put out the new codex in a couple of years. Here is my suggestion on how it should go down:

So there is the first draft. What do you think?

I think that you could have saved a lot of typing by saying: "See Codex: Space Marines, but paint red."

Also, the Ironclad is just an up-armored Furioso.

To be honest, I don't want 10-man squads to be the basis. I'm really happy with playable 5-man (Vet) Assault Squads the way they are.

Mahu wrote:

dantes axe shouldnt be a relic blade. its too small to be a relic blade.

His Axe needs to be special in one way or another. It should be a little more then just another power weapon. A Relic Blade matches with the new Space Marine codex the best.

Dante is the oldest and greatest Chapter Master right now, he should be able to handle Calgar in a fight and be on that level.

and yet you put him 30 points cheaper then Marneus

I feel like I am having to defend myself more then having a discussion on what should go into this "proposed" codex. If you disagree with something I posted, post how you would change it instead.

I want to address the idea that my proposed list is nothing but codex space marines painted red. There are several reasons I would disagree with that:

1. Characters - Codex Space Marines have Vultan, Pedro, Khan, Lysander, Strike, and Calgar as characters, all of them significantly change the list which fields them. You also have Captians on bike and Masters of the Forge that changes the list. My list has Dante, Corbulo, Morleo Moriar, Tycho, Masters of the Forge and Captain with a jump Pack that changes the list. So Regular Codex marines will have greater list mutability then the BA. Advantage Space Marines.

2. Dreadnoughts - Blood Angels give up the more heavily armed and armored Iron Clad for the access to Furiosos and Death Company Dreads. I figure it's a fair trade off and shows the unique units in the Blood Angels list. Even Trade off

3. Veterans - I traded Sternguard and Vanguard for Veteran Assault Squads. So where Codex Space Marines either have excellent shooting Veterans or Excellent Assault Veterans, Blood Angels just have access to more mutable excellent assault veterans, however you can still argue that Codex Space Marines gain the advantage due to unit selection. Advantage Space Marines.


I find it frustrating that people continue to argue that they are somehow not a codex chapter. They are and the majority of their list should reflect that.

Blood Angels still have 10 companies of 100 men each. They still have Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, Tactical Squads, Combat Squads, Devastator Squads, etc.

Where the list should differ from Codex Space Marines is only in two different areas, the unique units they have, and how their characters shape the list to lean on particular directions.

1. Unique Units - Instead of Command Squads they get Honor Guard, Instead of shooty and Ironclad Dreads they get Furioso and Death Company Dreads. They have the Death Company they can field, they have a Predator Varient not availible to any other Chapter, and they have a greater number of Assault Marines. I think that I have reflected that in my proposal.

2. Characters - You have a powerful Dante that gives Preferred enemy to units, you have Corbulo that confers Furious Charge, You have two characters that support the purely close combat Death Company, you have Mephiston who loves CC, you have Morleo Moriar that ups the CC dreadnought ante. As you can see the characters really lean a traditionally adaptable list towards preferring CC.

Maybe I am the crazy one, but I feel there is a great misconception about the Blood Angels. They are not crazy beserkers like the followers of Khorne, and even though they prefer close combat they don't throw their shooting out the window. They are noble heroes with a tragic curse, not soulless space vampires.

Mahu wrote:I feel like I am having to defend myself more then having a discussion on what should go into this "proposed" codex. If you disagree with something I posted, post how you would change it instead.

Oops. I thought your initial post was a joke. I wasn't taking it as a serious proposal. I'm sorry I worded things the way I did, and didn't intend any offense. Please accept my apologies.

That said, I'm generally *very* happy with the current BA Codex, and would be happy to see it go to print as-is. I don't like the 10+ model SM-style squads because I want to field MSU AS. So, the only changes I would make to the WD version would be to give most of SCs the option to take Jump Packs at +20 pts /model, similar to how Marneus had the option to appear in TDA or PA. Also, I'd replace Wings of Sanguinius for a JP option and a "create angst in target model" power.