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OK, toying around with a 2k point list for a FLGS tourney coming up. Would welcome any thoughts, comments, criticisms. We have necron, orc, tau, chaos, and SM biker players in our group. Thanks in advance for any comments. And now I present to you, the newly reconstituted.....

57th Overlander's Brigade (the Balls and Bayonets Brigade)

Command Platoon (35 men, 676 points)

Command Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Brevet Colonel Malcom Reynolds - Junior Officer
- w/Honorifica Imperialis (for the Battle of Serenity Valley), Refractor Field, Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Melta Bombs, Iron Discipline Doctrine
Corporal Zoe Alleyne - Regimental Standard Bearer
- w/Regimental Standard, Melta Bombs
3 Guardsmen w/Grenade Launchers

Anti-Tank Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Rocket Launcher Teams (I don't call them missile launchers 'cuz the first 4 letters in missile is MISS!)

Anti-Tank Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Lascannon Teams

Fire Support Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Autocannon Teams

Fire Support Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Autocannon Teams

Mortar Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
3 Mortar squads

Infantry Platoon (25 men, 252 points)

Command Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Junior Officer w/Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Melta Bombs, Iron Discipline Doctrine
4 Guardsmen w/meltaguns x4

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Platoon (25 men, 252 points)

Command Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Junior Officer w/Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Melta Bombs, Iron Discipline Doctrine
4 Guardsmen w/meltaguns x4

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Fast Attack Units (5 men, 2 vehicles, 341 points)

Rough Rider Squad
Veteran Sergeant w/hunting lance, power weapon, carapace armor, melta bombs
4 Rough Riders w/hunting lances, laspistols, melta bombs

Hellhound
- pintle mounted storm bolter, hull mounted heavy bolter

Hellhound
- pintle mounted storm bolter, hull mounted heavy bolter

Heavy Support Units ( 3 vehicles, 518 points)

Basilisk
- Indirect Fire Capability, Smoke Launchers, Improved Comms, hull mounted heavy bolter

Leman Russ Battle Tank
- hull mounted lascannon, pintle mounted storm bolter, heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ Demolisher
- hull mounted lascannon, pintle mounted storm bolter, plasma cannon sponsons

Total cost: 1999 points for 90 men & 5 vehicles

Thats it in a nutshell....I originally was toying with the idea of equipping the hellhounds with hunter-killer rockets and dropping the melta bombs from my rough riders, but i decided if they do last past their initial charge, i want them to have something more substantil left on them for weapons besides just laspistols, lol. I know some people dont like mortars, but their effectiveness has improved with 5th edition. If you have a critique or criticism, please offer some of your reasoning/thinking behind it.....dont want just a "drop this and add this" post because I want to learn why you think your suggestion would be better and improve my playing style in the process.

Thanks,
Bart

anyone?

That CHQ has a lot of wargear in it. Meltabombs? Storm Bolters and Power Weapons?

Look, I get it, you want to have Malcom Reynolds as your commander - wouldn't a bolt pistol do? It's 1 point.

BYE

yeah, i know....i just thought it would be fun to drop a little gear on him.

other than that, how does the rest of the list look to you?

Ok, from the top:

Command Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Brevet Colonel Malcom Reynolds - Junior Officer
- w/Honorifica Imperialis (for the Battle of Serenity Valley), Refractor Field, Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Melta Bombs, Iron Discipline Doctrine
Corporal Zoe Alleyne - Regimental Standard Bearer
- w/Regimental Standard, Melta Bombs
3 Guardsmen w/Grenade Launchers

Problems:

1. Bloat bloat boat. As I said, I get you want to have some gear on Mal, but make it worthwhile gear. Honorifica is mandatory, as is Iron Discipline. Meltabombs he'll never use. Stormbolter as well (take a Bolt Pistol). If you must keep the rest, keep the rest. I wouldn't take either the Refractor or the PW, but if you really want them, keep 'em.
2. Zoe shouldn't have Meltabombs. The Regimental Standard Bearer will not help you. Company Standard works fine.
3. No Grenade Launchers. Not only are they overpriced useless weapons, you don't want this squad out there shooting (and getting shot at). They hide, provide Ld, and that's it.

Truthfully, excepting Cameleoline and/or Light Infantry, a CHQ should never cost more than 81 Points.

Anti-Tank Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Rocket Launcher Teams (I don't call them missile launchers 'cuz the first 4 letters in missile is MISS!)

Anti-Tank Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Lascannon Teams

Well this is a decent use of the Sharpshooter Doctrine. I wouldn't bring Lascannons though. You want to kill tanks, you take Meltas. That's it. I'd actually swap them for ML's... and even then I wouldn't take ML's in a Guard army. I think these are two squads that could save you a lot of points for bigger and better things.

Fire Support Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Autocannon Teams

Fire Support Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Autocannon Teams

The 20 points you spend on Sharp Shooters nets you 6 more Autocannon hits a game, which isn't a bad thing. Just keep this unit in cover.

Mortar Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
3 Mortar squads

Drop immediately. Mortars were bad when they scattered D6. Now they scatter 2D6 and are worse than a Bolter when they do it. Total waste of points.

Infantry Platoon (25 men, 252 points)
Command Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Junior Officer w/Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Melta Bombs, Iron Discipline Doctrine
4 Guardsmen w/meltaguns x4

Oooh... dear.

In light of the current rules for KP's, having Suicide Melta units is kind've a no no. They're worth too much when they die. You're better off with H-Vets. That said, if you do keep this unit, ditch the Power Weapon, Storm Bolter and Meltabombs because that is 15 points you will never use. And 10 of those points can go towards Sharpshooters, something this unit could certainly use.

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Perfect. I love little 76 point Guard Squads. I've been using them for years. Pity about the KP part of it though, but that's not your fault, that's Jervis' fault.

Infantry Platoon (25 men, 252 points)
Command Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Junior Officer w/Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Melta Bombs, Iron Discipline Doctrine
4 Guardsmen w/meltaguns x4

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Ditto.

Fast Attack Units (5 men, 2 vehicles, 341 points)
Rough Rider Squad
Veteran Sergeant w/hunting lance, power weapon, carapace armor, melta bombs
4 Rough Riders w/hunting lances, laspistols, melta bombs

Carapace? No! No! Not 20 points for 5 guys. Waste of a Doctrine. These guys won't survive more than a round of combat, you don't need to keep them alive. Ditch the Meltabombs.

Hellhound
- pintle mounted storm bolter, hull mounted heavy bolter

Hellhound
- pintle mounted storm bolter, hull mounted heavy bolter

Stormbolter? The Stubber is 2 points more and gains a shot and +12" range. You need Extra Armour too.

Heavy Support Units ( 3 vehicles, 518 points)

Basilisk
- Indirect Fire Capability, Smoke Launchers, Improved Comms, hull mounted heavy bolter

Smoke? WTH?

Leman Russ Battle Tank
- hull mounted lascannon, pintle mounted storm bolter, heavy bolter sponsons

Lose the pintle mount. Downgrade Lascannon to Heavy Bolter. It's far better to have 3 HBs than a useless Lascannon.

Leman Russ Demolisher
- hull mounted lascannon, pintle mounted storm bolter, plasma cannon sponsons

I'd still take the HB with the Plasma Cannons.


The biggest problem is Anti-Tank. If you lost the Mortars and the two AT units (which won't kill tanks), you can trade them plus the other cost saving things for 75-point H-Vet units w/3 Meltaguns each. You have the Doctrine slot if you drop Carapace Armour.

BYE

Thank you....now that is what I call constructive criticism. I shall take your suggestions to heart and mull them over a bit.

Anyone else?

Wow, a Browncoat army. Now I just need to make an Alliance army, and we'll see who REALLY one the war


Seriously though, I thought about making an Alliance army (even though I'm a Browncoat at heart it'd be easier model-wise)

One criticism I have is putting heavy weaps in the squads. Sure it's cheap, but then you must maintain the gun-line which I aint to fond of. I'd drop them and stick them in a platoon of their own, giving the squads free reign to move forward and rapid-flashlight the oponnent. But this is truly a mighty fine list.

One more thing, sorry bout the double post, is to buy Heavy bolters for the tank hulls. Lascannons serve no purpose when you fire the heavy bolters at a squad and then must fire the lascannon at the squad. Alternatively you must shoot the lascannon at a tank and then hope the heavy bolter sponsons can do anything.

Make them either all antitank, or all anti infantry. Anything else is a waste of points.

Hmm... loads of heavy weapons in big mobs of wounds backed up by cover saves, or loads of heavy weapons crammed into small squads with very few ablative wounds.

I know which I'd rather take.

BYE

Well truth be told the lascannons on the tanks stems from about 12 years ago when i got my first tanks and just put them together before i really learned how to play the game. I usually change them to hull mounted heavy bolters, but then i have to tell my opponent that its not a lascannon, its a heavy bolter, and I just get lazy sometimes and leave it a lascannon. Also in tourneys with strict WYSIWYG they have to lascannons...at least until I crack the superglue bond and remove the lascannons and put in heavy bolters in the tanks, which i have just purchased some new tanks and i may just leave my hull lascannon tanks alone and make the new ones with heavy bolters instead.

So the short of it is, yes, i will be changing them from hull mounted lascannons to hull mounted heavy bolters.

As to the heavy weapons in the line squads....well as much as you don't like the idea its the way i've always played guard. entrenched fire support positions in cover is what guard excels at, so i try to use that to the best tactical advantage. why advance on an enemy if you dont need to, when your strength as an army is to slug it out and let the enemy come to you. I know you can't rely strictly on that tactic alone, but it is what the guard do best. Stand their ground and throw rounds downrange. At least thats how i've always viewed the IG.

But i appreciate the comments...seems we just have a different bit of philosophy on playing styles.

~Bart

OK, toying around with a 2k point list for a FLGS tourney coming up as I said above. Keep in mind in our group we have necron, orc, tau, chaos, and SM biker players that I will at some point or another be facing. And without further delay, I now present to you, the newly re-reconstituted.....

57th Overlander's Brigade (the Balls and Bayonets Brigade)

Command Platoon (29 men, 546 points)

Command Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Brevet Colonel Malcom Reynolds - Junior Officer
- w/Honorifica Imperialis (for the Battle of Serenity Valley), Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Iron Discipline Doctrine
Corporal Zoe Alleyne - Standard Bearer
- w/Company Standard, lasgun, ccw
3 Guardsmen w/flamers x3

Anti-Tank Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Rocket Launcher Teams (I don't call them missile launchers 'cuz the first 4 letters in missile is MISS!)

Anti-Tank Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Lascannon Teams

Fire Support Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Autocannon Teams

Fire Support Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooter Doctrines
3 Autocannon Teams

Infantry Platoon (25 men, 252 points)

Command Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooters Doctrines
Junior Officer w/Storm Bolter & ccw, Iron Discipline Doctrine
4 Guardsmen w/meltaguns x4

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Platoon (25 men, 252 points)

Command Squad - Drop Troops & Sharpshooters Doctrines
Junior Officer w/Storm Bolter & ccw, Iron Discipline Doctrine
4 Guardsmen w/meltaguns x4

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Infantry Squad - Drop Troops & Close Order Drill Doctrines
Sergeant w/ laspistol & ccw
9 Guardsmen w/flamer x1, heavy bolter x1, lasguns x7

Elite Units (5 men, 95 points)

Hardened Veterans Squad - Drop Troops Doctrine
Veteran Sergeant w/Storm Bolter, Power Weapon, melta bombs
4 Hardened veterans w/meltaguns x3, shotgun x1

Fast Attack Units (6 men, 2 vehicles, 336 points)

Rough Rider Squad
Veteran Sergeant w/hunting lance & laspistol
5 Rough Riders w/hunting lances & laspistols x5

Hellhound
- pintle mounted heavy stubber, hull mounted heavy bolter, extra armor

Hellhound
- pintle mounted heavy stubber, hull mounted heavy bolter, extra armor

Heavy Support Units (3 vehicles, 519 points)

Basilisk
- Indirect Fire Capability, Improved Comms, hull mounted heavy bolter

Leman Russ Battle Tank
- hull mounted heavy bolter, pintle mounted heavy stubber, heavy bolter sponsons, extra armor

Leman Russ Demolisher
- hull mounted lascannon, pintle mounted heavy stubber, plasma cannon sponsons, extra armor

Total cost: 2000 points for 90 men & 5 vehicles


I'll be playtesting it tomorrow, so I'll post any observations and changes after that. If you have any other critques, comments, criticisms, please post them in the mean time, and thank you in advance.

~Bart

well unfortunately yesterday's battle was called on account of a higer power intervening...(my wife came down sick so i was forced to stay home with the recruits...errr....i mean kids)...so I'll have to wait to post an after action review until next weekend.

~Bart