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I have seen many pictures of guard players doing that, but I wanted a communal response.

Can I use two individual models on the small bases represented the gunner and the spotter instead of both on a 60mm base?

1. Would it be Rogue Trader Tournament legal?

2. Would so many people have issues with it that it wouldn't be worth it?

Some advantages I see to being separate:

- perhaps less vulnerable to template weapons
- better spotting angles due to standing up
- easier to place on top of a building (which may also increase line of sight)
- takes up less space

Some advantages I see to being together:

- both can fire the gun if the other is killed, so better suited for wound allocation

The reason I'm asking is that I wanted to use leftover parts of the team and regular models to make it a little more economical.
I appreciate any suggestions.
-

As long as you put them on the big base (which is your entire issue, I know) you can do whatever you want to with the men and weapons in terms of poses/height/modeling.

For example, I found that I had a whole bunch of land raider turrets and sponsons in my bit box. I pulled the Godhammer TL Lascannons out, assembled them, and mounted them on top of Razorback dorsal mounts. I can put it onto a big base if I want to make a Guard HW emplacement, or I can throw it onto a rhino if I want a lascannon razorback.

But as to your original question, no, it's not a great idea to try to get away with two small bases because the one big one is about the size of three or four little bases. It makes it much easier to put your guys down on top of buildings, etc. than if you had two little ones. That makes me shy away from using the two smalls; they're advantageously smaller.

If you're an older player, then IG Heavies are all on 2 small bases, standard. The entire notion of large bases is laughable.

Also, rules-wise the smaller bases are far easier to handle.

aye, it won't matter, with the smaller bases it wont matter its not that advantageous as with those massive bases you only get a hit if it goes over the guard model itself not just the base or else those big bases would be pointless, i have got some mortars on 40mm and the extra guy on a normal base, no one seems to care at all

I made alot of seperate base models also, they sort of get grandfathered in because some heavy weapon teams are/were sold with them configured like that, like lead Catachan Rocket Launchers on 2 small bases, or Steel Legion metal Las cannon teams with an old cavalry base and a seperate loader on a small 25mm.

I think you'd be fine, especially considering how tough the IG aren't nowadays.

GW guard faq says that the big base is decorative and the models should be considered as being on two regular round bases.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180152_Imperial_Guard_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

just keep them in base contact with each other it shouldnt matter. but there are some jerks in the world.

also id like to state that in doing what your planning, make sure that your opponent knows exactly who is doing what. I can see some scrupulous players making bland guardsmen and saying that the ones being hit really arnt in the heavy team. so i guess just make sure you model them in a way that its incredibly easy to tell these two are together

If it's a question of knowing which 2 models are the Heavy Weapons models, that should be clear from proper modeling. Not basing.

@ OP
I can see why you want to out them on two bases instead of one big one.
The larger base gets in the way and it's difficult to do wound allocation.

I have all my heavy weapons teams as two individual dudes.
One is the gunner and is holding the weapon/firing it.
The other dude is the ammo grunt and has a lasgun and is wearing the backpack from the heavy weapons sprue.

It works quite well and at 'Ardboyz nobody had a problem at all with it.

I just use whatever base looks best. Heck, some of my Space Marines are on large bases, because they're using those huge IG lascannons.

Small stuff like missile launchers and the like should be fine on small bases. There's simply no reason to base them any bigger, usually.

I dont think it will make any difference me more annoying to transport.

I played my heavies on two small bases and only once ran into trouble. My squad was decimated, in a round of combat, but survived, and the counter charge killed the SM that charged me. Because I had my weapon on 2 bases the loader was killed in combat, but the gunner was not. An argument came up as to wither or not I could still shoot the laz cannon or not, we wound up rolling off for it. Dont know if it is still an issue now with the way models are removed from combat, but it may be; i.e. characters who can decided who was hit by a shot.

If a gunner or a spotter is killed the heavy can still be fired. I don't have a page number off hand but I will find it for you.

It's the IG Codex. 2 guys buy it, but as it's one gun, only 1 may fire it. And as it's 2 guys, either 1 is expendable.

you have to mount the model on the base it came with, they come with big bases for a reason. Some people let you put things on bigger bases, but never smaller bases. As a matter of fact you would very likely get DQ'd from any tournament you played in if you changed base size or at the very lest be told you cant use them. Rest assured that your opponent would tell the organizer you are cheating. Modeling is ok, changing base size is never ok.

Now, and I dont know much about guard. But if it says somewhere that you CAN use 2 small bases then its ok. But if your going to do it make sure you have the paperwork to back it up (FAQ, codex).

da gob smaka wrote:you have to mount the model on the base it came with,

Now, and I dont know much about guard.

My models are 2E / 3E models and they came with only 25mm bases, so I use those. If some n00b who's only seen plastic guard and scenic bases has a problem with that, he can go pound sand.

And that is perhaps why you shouldn't be commenting on the 60mm bases.

The FAQ says to treat them as two seperate models with 25mm bases.

From a game standpoint, it makes absolutely no difference.

If you have 2 Guardsmen on a 60mm scenic base, what happens if a flamer grazes the edge, but doesn't touch either figure?

Right.

And that is why it's better that they're on individual 25mm bases.

the FAQ tells you to imagine each gaurdsman is standing on a small base and see if a template would touch this imaginary circle. Again another situation where 5th ed goes towards "friendly" play but make tournies cry.

Second page halfway down the right column
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180152_Imperial_Guard_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

So I guess for future modeling issues maybe take some of the extra small bases you own and glue the individual gaurdsmen on those before attaching them to the big base.

I don't think you can blame that on 5th Edition. I think you should blame that on the models.

Also, if you're using the small bases on the big base, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the big base?

not at all, You have the small ones glued to the big base just for rules purposes but then you have the big bases for you Pretty basing stuff or what ever gaming advantage you can think of for having big bases.

Also remember that the weapon itself is just a marker or decoration. Firing is still from the guardsman model. I use old-time Tallarn and the lascannons just end up out of the way when the melee starts.

Hmmm, maybe in the next edition they will supply cover... /wistful sigh.

da gob smaka wrote:you have to mount the model on the base it came with, they come with big bases for a reason. Some people let you put things on bigger bases, but never smaller bases. As a matter of fact you would very likely get DQ'd from any tournament you played in if you changed base size or at the very lest be told you cant use them. Rest assured that your opponent would tell the organizer you are cheating. Modeling is ok, changing base size is never ok.

Now, and I dont know much about guard. But if it says somewhere that you CAN use 2 small bases then its ok. But if your going to do it make sure you have the paperwork to back it up (FAQ, codex).

Thats not a supportable statement. As usernamesareannoying pointed out, its been FAQ'd.
Further, historically they been supplied with smaller bases, and depending on the mini purchased STILL come with them. The "reason" they were put on larger bases was thematics, and was actually stated as so by GW.

So, we can mount "new" heavy guard teams (cadian boxes, what most people use when starting new guard armies) on the old small rounds?

By the same logic, you'd be fine looking at new Terminator models mounted on small rounds because the Rogue Trader era Termies used them?

Sure, old models on old bases I understand. I'm not going to demand anybody rework their stuff and GW has said much the same. Depending on terrain and movement, however, there are definitely some maneuvers you can pull off on a small base that aren't possible on the really, really big one.

sourclams wrote:So, we can mount "new" heavy guard teams (cadian boxes, what most people use when starting new guard armies) on the old small rounds?

Yes. The Imperial Guard FAQ says how to treat them.
My italics below: An easy way of handling the situation. Strangely i did this before the FAQ with my guys that were on scenic bases.

A. Heavy weapon crews are supplied with a large
base to contain both crewmen and the weapon
for convenience of movement. Treat them as two
separate models, imagining a 25mm round base
underneath each Guardsman when this is
required. If the loader is killed, place a dice or
other suitable marker onto the base next to it. If
the gunner is killed, the loader will take his place,
assume that the loader has been killed instead.

One question is whether the current plastic IG Heavy Weapons boxes still include 25mm rounds in addition to the 60mm scenic base. If so, then it's like Daemons - the player has the choice of how to base them.

If not, rules-wise, it's still a *lot* cleaner to use 25mm rounds.

And if you choose to "max" out your IG Heavies by spreading the weapons around, you will run out of 60mm scenic bases, so you'll be forced to use the 25mm rounds from the basic models.

Therefore, the IG Heavy weapons strategy should be to use the 60mm scenics on weapons that you won't take, and the 25mm rounds on the weapons that you do.

This complies with RAW and makes the rules simple.

I haven't bought any just heavy weapons teams boxes as the Battle force is such a good deal, however the battleforce does not come with any Extra 25 mm bases for the heavy weapons teams. However I will admit that i do split some of my heavy wepons up on basic cadians with 25mm bases, When I can get 2-4 weapons teams out of each Heavy weapons sprue why not.