Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You're playing a game of apocalypse. Uses a turn limit (6 turns) instead of a time limit. Normal deployment rules, though.

You're That Guy. You want to win this.

Unfortunately, so is your opponent.

No need for an army to make sense, access to all models in existence.

What do you bring?

You'll want all the things that give you cheaper assets - Damocles Command Rhino saves 190 on Orbital Bombardment. What else?

At the point levels of an Apoc game it is more difficult to Min/Max because the amount of 10' Str D templates flying around is phenomenal. Titans and aircraft fare the best, since they often can take a hit or two before dying. Back them up with some terminator or other infantry for protection from close combat and you are all set.

so min max by taking all the 10' Str D templates you can get your hands on?


Does anyone dare to write up a sample list?

Apoc is kind of wierd, and min-max will depend a lot on what you're up against, what kind of team you're on, and how much terrain there will be.

For example, if you have heavy terrain on both sides, and someone else to go after objectives, then playing the Artillery role with massed Inq. Orbital Bombardments and the strategem that lets you have half of your Reserves come in Turn 1 isn't a bad idea.

On the other hand, if you need to take out a lot of heavy stuff (armor & Termies), then massed Titans with D weapons is great.

Or if you just want to be the guy who grabs the objectives, spam Drop Guard infantry like there's no tomorrow.

I can't help with unit choice, but I can suggest vocabulary:

optimizacolypse v., t. To optimize a game of Apocalypse.
"We used to waste so much time! Optimizacolypsification of our game has really helped. Thanks Dakka!"

groz beat me to the neologism. Damnation. Although I would have called it "optimacalypse."

Eldar fare well in Apoc. Tons of Revenants to fulfill the titan-hunter role (relatively cheap 4-shot strength D shots). The Seer Council datasheet that gives 3 Strategic Assets, including Careful Planning and Strategic Redeoplyment (must-have game winners) and Ambush (countering the other must-have game winner, Flank March). These guys can also shrug off strength D hits like no-one's business.

Also, the Ulthwe Spirit Host gives you Wraithlords (forget the Wraithguard) that generate a 12" Fearless bubble. Start them together, then spread out through a Guardian horde or gigantic battery of support weapons. Remember to keep a Seer near them. Attach one or two to bodyguard the Super Council and draw strength D shots onto them. Oh, and the Warlocks you have to buy for the formation can be bike-mounted... a really good super-heavy vehicle killer squad.

Non-Eldar stuff:

A DH Inquisitor with 2x Mystics next to a Warlord Titan. Keep the DH Inq inside a Land Raider, and you've got a really big reach for the "shoot arriving deep strikers" ability. Take that, Titanhammer Squad...

A few Death Cult Assasins on foot to take out solitary targets.

A crapload of Cyclops demo vehicles made out of Matchbox cars and vox bitz.

A few Ork Fighta-bommas.

Tons of sentry guns for taking down titan shields, individually targetable, spread out to avoid being neutralized by bombardments.

An Ork Pulsa Rocket if your army is shooty, to pin the enemy while you shoot them to death.

1-man teams.
Average quantity of terrain

The point of this is an intellectual exercise - to waste time. Doing this sucks 4 or 5 different kinds of fun out of Apocalypse.
Remember, different armies don't exist in apocalypse.

Collecting everything into army list form

Team A, "Eldar":
Tons of Revenants
1 Seer Council
1 or 2 Ulthwe Spirit Host with Wraithlords, each with Farseers
Guardian horde / gigantic battery of support weapons
1 DH Inquisitor with 2x Mystics
1 Warlord Titan.
A few Death Cult Assasins on foot
A crapload of Cyclops demo vehicles
A few Ork Fighta-bommas.
Tons of sentry guns
0-1 Ork Pulsa Rockets


Team B, "Exterminatus":
A combined-arms team of
(artillery) Many Orbital Bombardments
(anti-tank) Massed Titans with D weapons
(objectives) Drop Guard
Free Strategem: Careful Planning


Team C, "Pie Plates":
1 Revenant Titan
1 Spirit Host: 5x Wraithlords
Eldar Aircraft
Terminators
Free Stratagem: Careful Planning

A quick note, I run a Revenant with a big spirit host of 5x wraithlords. The "Carefull Planning" Strategem works well to bring in the titan 1st turn if you don't go first. Titans are fire magnets and Eldar fields only work if you have moved, so having your titan sit there and get shot without its fields is frustrating.

Eldar aircraft are also better then imperial or ork due to the extra 4+ save.

Durandal wrote:Eldar aircraft are also better then imperial or ork due to the extra 4+ save.

Well, since you only get one type of save, and all aircraft get the 4+ SMF now, Eldar Fields on aircraft seemed redundant to me. We were considering just calling it 4+ with a re-roll instead, which is effectively the same thing you recommend. But am I missing a reason why they would have gotten that anyways under the basic rules, with no mods to bring them up-to-date?

-Edit found the answer

Durandal wrote:A quick note, I run a Revenant with a big spirit host of 5x wraithlords. The "Carefull Planning" Strategem works well to bring in the titan 1st turn if you don't go first.

Hmm... I might try a Spirit Host with Flank March next game.

Storming on with 6 Wraithlords could be pretty cool...

Anyone want to write up a full army list?

Reaver Titan battlegroup. 'Nuff sedd.

if your allowed the old VDR (something someone once did) boat loads of HK missiles on a flyer deployed a mile away...


failing that....
scoring unit in a flyer + as many barrages as you can take... drop on the objectives and bid for going 2nd- technically unbeatable as you bombard 5 of the objectives and land on the 6th at the end of the game

Then again spamming certain units can be unbeatable if your opponent is not ready for them (lots of mm landspeeders for example)

How about nothing but monoliths and gauss pylons?

Take as many of the assets that do "X to every one of X" as you can. I've seen games with ~8 precision strikes and ambushes on a single side. This will somewhat reliably damage or kill everything without a side armor of 12 or higher and can take out monstrous creatures well before the game even starts. Once you have those get as many ambush assets as possible (the assassin thingy is good for this).


After all this is complete take a bunch of monoliths shoulder to shoulder forming a quarter circle at a table corner and put a bunch of basilisks behind them. Never move the monoliths. Between every basilisk have a few plaguemarines and make sure that there is no possible way for the opponent to flank into your basilisk corner. Every 9 or so inches have a mekboy with a kustom force field giving the bassilisks and monoliths blanket protection.

Set up second. Your opponant will likely set up all over his board edge, meaning you are already getting to ignore two thirds of his force. Your first turn should consist of shooting every single enemy unit that can fire indirectly with your 20 something basilisks. This is all the shooting you will be doing. Your opponent will attempt and fail to break your monoliths under their mekboy protection and no amount of assaults or flanking will let them get to the basilisk cube safeley hidden behind the mono-wall.




Your opponent will punch you. But it'l be worth it. Your 8 or so precision strikes will kill most of his transports and any independent character or monstrous creatures. Your ambushes will kill anything they decided to flank in with. If by some bizarre coincidence something gets close enough for the monoliths to kill there's another couple of str 9 ap3 templates waiting for them. Or str 9 ap1 if they are vehicles.

@Shuma: So you need an Guard (Bassie) - Necron ('lith) - Ork (Mek) - Chaos (PM) alliance to cheese the opponent in Apoc?

That doesn't seem very Fluffy to me!

Who cares, its apocalypse. The point is to time the speed it takes to get your opponent to punch you in the face and leave the store.

OK, I get that, but ...

Having to buy Orks and Necrons?

I suggest not playing apocalypse. It never ends, costs a fortune, and isn't fun. Prepare for apocalypse, everyone flush their weekend down the toliet!

JohnHwangDD wrote:OK, I get that, but ...

Having to buy Orks and Necrons?

You really only need to buy 4 orks. Its the seven or eight require monoliths that should be giving you fits. Also 20 bassilisks.

Shuma's setup makes me want to convert up some Deathstrike missile launchers. Or get an Eldar Cobra.

Of course a Cobra would accomplish the goal of getting punched in the face, because I would have to paint it blue and yell "COOOOOBRRRRAAA!" every time I shot with it.

Savnock wrote:

Durandal wrote:Eldar aircraft are also better then imperial or ork due to the extra 4+ save.

Well, since you only get one type of save, and all aircraft get the 4+ SMF now, Eldar Fields on aircraft seemed redundant to me. We were considering just calling it 4+ with a re-roll instead, which is effectively the same thing you recommend. But am I missing a reason why they would have gotten that anyways under the basic rules, with no mods to bring them up-to-date?

At my store the convention is that the Eldar field acts like a FNP save, so you take your cover save and then your holofield save. Works great against lascannons and the like, but against supergattlablastas not so much.