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I been using Two heads to get +2 to cast and then mastery of sorcery to be able to pick whatever lore was useful but friend recommended dark magister to ignore first mis cast but that would leave you with lore of tzeench.

For my loc I have given them one of the 2 dispell abilities (depending if I want to get rid of a spell or not) and Master of Sorcery and Flames of Tzeentch.

Alternately if you know you are going up agaisnt a Dragon armour (or similar flame proof army) you can give him staff of change. Now your attacks are not flaming because you are weilding a non flaming weapon. And any successful wounds need to make a toughness check or they are dead. Great for mounted Characters.

Da_Viking wrote:Alternately if you know you are going up agaisnt a Dragon armour (or similar flame proof army) you can give him staff of change. Now your attacks are not flaming because you are weilding a non flaming weapon. And any successful wounds need to make a toughness check or they are dead. Great for mounted Characters.

This isn't true, as Flaming Attacks is a special ability of the LoC and gives all its attacks Flaming, even those attacks affected by other Gifts.

I have checked with GW and yes it is true.

Naturally a LOC has flaming attacks. But put a non flaming weapon in their hand and now their attacks are non flaming.

I have played this in a tournament and even the tournament judges agreed.

This would be the same as if you gave any other character a magical weapon. They use the abilities of the weapon over any abilities they have. The weapon iteself is not flaming so now attacks with it are not flaming.

But if you can find somewhere to prove this wrong then please let me know. Because if I am in error then I do not want to find out in the middle of a tournament.

Da_Viking,

The staff of change is NOT a magical weapon and any of the rules that apply to magical weapons do not apply to it. the rules for flaming attacks state that a model that has flaming attacks all its attacks are considered to be flaming. Taking the staff of change does not mean that he suddenly looses his flaming attacks special rule.

Also since the Staff of Change is a mundane weapon the LOC can simply choose not to use and just fight with a single hand weapon.

Da_Viking wrote:
This would be the same as if you gave any other character a magical weapon. They use the abilities of the weapon over any abilities they have. The weapon iteself is not flaming so now attacks with it are not flaming.

But if you can find somewhere to prove this wrong then please let me know. Because if I am in error then I do not want to find out in the middle of a tournament.

Daemons of Chaos, Daemonic Gifts, pg. 92: "Daemonic Gifts are not magic items..."; Staff of Change: "Hand Weapon."

I can't find my Fantasy rule book, so I can't give you a page number or direct quote, but as Flaming Attacks gives all the LoC's attacks the Flaming ability and since Gifts aren't Magic Items/Weapons, the Staff of Change doesn't remove the Flaming Attacks rule. Giving a non-flaming, non-magical weapon to a Character that has Flaming Attacks makes that weapon Flaming. Anyone ruling otherwise is wrong.

You may want to reread the description of what gifts are. Note the last line where you cannot modify the property of the gift. Therefore when you give a non flamming hand weapon (note that this is put in the flamming talon of the LOC) that you now cannot modify the gifts abilities. The gift itself cannot become flaming. This means all flaming attacks from the LOC are now lost.

Other Gifts substitute abilities making the daemon have killing blow. But under the Staff of change it specificaly states it is a hand weapon.

This is a tough one to call appernetly because of the concept of gift versus magic item. But upon review of the Last line on the description of what a gift is (it is at the top of the page for gifts) you should be able to see the difference.

Please review and see if that changes your mind.

2 Tournamanets where I have used it and judges agree with me.

Looking for feedback.

Da_Viking wrote:You may want to reread the description of what gifts are. Note the last line where you cannot modify the property of the gift. Therefore when you give a non flamming hand weapon (note that this is put in the flamming talon of the LOC) that you now cannot modify the gifts abilities. The gift itself cannot become flaming. This means all flaming attacks from the LOC are now lost.

Other Gifts substitute abilities making the daemon have killing blow. But under the Staff of change it specificaly states it is a hand weapon.

This is a tough one to call appernetly because of the concept of gift versus magic item. But upon review of the Last line on the description of what a gift is (it is at the top of the page for gifts) you should be able to see the difference.

Please review and see if that changes your mind.

2 Tournamanets where I have used it and judges agree with me.

Looking for feedback.

Yes, it's a hand weapon. All Hand Weapons do is allow models to attack using their normal stats and attacks. As a LoC's normal attacks are Flaming and the Staff of Change has nothing that would actually replace or disallow Flaming, a Staff of Change is Flaming.

Also YOU should re-read the last bit, as Flaming has nothing to do with affecting Magic Items(Gifts are not Magic Items), only attacks. I didn't post the second part of that line because it doesn't affect Flaming at all. Yes, they're immune to Spells/Items that alter Magic Items, but Flaming Attacks doesn't alter Magic Items, it make attacks Flaming, including Hand Weapons.

I'd give a Lord of Change a fistful of nickles and dimes...

Illeix wrote:I'd give a Lord of Change a fistful of nickles and dimes...

Amen, or a cannon ball to the face.

Da_Viking wrote:For my loc I have given them one of the 2 dispell abilities (depending if I want to get rid of a spell or not) and Master of Sorcery and Flames of Tzeentch.

Alternately if you know you are going up agaisnt a Dragon armour (or similar flame proof army) you can give him staff of change. Now your attacks are not flaming because you are weilding a non flaming weapon. And any successful wounds need to make a toughness check or they are dead. Great for mounted Characters.

Isn't Tzeentch spells are not flaming? I mean he can freely shoot at dragon armour guys.

I think he's refering to close combat.

Ok. LoC have fly. Why you wanna put him on the charge from Princes\someone wearing DA?