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I was rereading my 1st edition Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader last night and come across this gem:

"For true aggression and psychotic killer-instinct, however, few recruits can best the murderous followers of the city-scum that roam the darkest pits of the hive-worlds. Driven to extremes of insanity by the colossal pressures of hive-world living, these merciless killers are usually ignored by the authorities. . ..They make ideal Space Marines, and whole gangs of city-scum are sometimes hunted and captured for this purpose."

Has this nice piece of back story has been dropped from the fluff since 1st edition?

Yes. Marines are now all noble and honorable and carefully screened and selected to avoid have psychopaths in their ranks. Well, at least they're supposed, but it could be a great backstory for a DIY chapter that goes renegade.

That's a very fitting description for the Night Lords though. After Nighthaunter left his homeworld (the name escapes me now), a number of criminals and murderers were accepted into the ranks and that helped to hasten their fall from grace.

Fluff from Rogue Trader has sometimes changed substantially. iirc, in Rogue Trader, Space Marines didn't have any of the implants. They were stronger because of their power armor (boosted strength to 4, iirc), and were better trained (higher WS, BS, Ld), but were still human.

Here's what RT says about the Space Marine alterations: "Their bodies are strengthened by bio-chem, and their resolve is hardened by psycho-surgery. A special black plastic caapace is merged with their natural flesh, forming a sort of identity tag as well as permanent protection." Pretty cool eh?

I love your idea dietrich about a chapter from the dregs of a hive city. I may go get me an assault on black reach so I can start it!

Achualy they can takr the carpace off, i think Loken does in either false gods, or galaxy in flames.

Xav wrote:Achualy they can takr the carpace off, i think Loken des in either false gods, or galaxy in flames.

Really? I thought it was implanted under the skin?

Yeh he does i think, il go look.

EDIT: Cant find the page, oh never mimd i think he does anyway.

I don't think the black carapace is removeable, maybe the author misunderstood. Or maybe I'm a bit of an old school fluff fascist. I recall the picture in Whitedwarf compendium, showing the carapace clearly being a sub-dermal implant. Maybe the fluff has changed, meh. But even the latest codex describes all the implants as being into the recruit's body.

olympia wrote:
Has this nice piece of back story has been dropped from the fluff since 1st edition?

Well, back in first edition they were just doing a copy-and-paste job from Dune (Sadukar), but at some point they realized that if they wanted to mercilessly litigate people for touching their intellectual property they'd have to alter it enough to claim it as their own.

The black carapace is indeed placed under the skin, it's what makes Marine bodies interact with Power Armor. I think it just makes them look more robust and muscly.

Doctor Thunder wrote:

olympia wrote:
Has this nice piece of back story has been dropped from the fluff since 1st edition?

Well, back in first edition they were just doing a copy-and-paste job from Dune (Sadukar), but at some point they realized that if they wanted to mercilessly litigate people for touching their intellectual property they'd have to alter it enough to claim it as their own.

now that is funny. well done to you sir.

I think Doc Thunder is being unfair. They did a cut-and-paste job from more than Dune, they stole ideas from lots of sources. After all, plagarism is the sinceriest form of flattery.

dietrich wrote:I think Doc Thunder is being too soft. They stole from a LOT more things then just Dune.

Fixed your quote.

dietrich wrote:I think Doc Thunder is being unfair. They did a cut-and-paste job from more than Dune, they stole ideas from lots of sources. After all, plagarism is the sinceriest form of flattery.

like the bible... I'm suprised god didn't take their @$$e$$ to court for that one

"God would you please take the stand"

"please place your right hand on the....

(god) "Yes?"

(befuddled bailiff) " Um... please place your right hand on the bible "

" Oh.... wait... WHAT THE HELL IS THIS CRAP!!! WHO THE HELL WROTE ALL THIS $H!T ABOUT ME!!!! I DID NOT BLOW UP THAT VILLAGE!!!"

It did not go away shrike was a hive ganger in his misspent youth.

A couple of the chapters recruit from feral worlds where the warriors would be akin to hive gangers.
I recall Loken has his carapace cracked open during his fight with Abaddon but he certainly doesn't remove it. He's pretty much mortally wounded after that and then a wall falls on him. The orbital bombardment must have been seen as a mercy after all that.

Will add about the hive ganger scum becoming marines. I have an old metal scout with three stars across his forehead and a mohawk as well as a small nose chain. He kind of reminds of Vivian off 'The Young Ones'.
I think the rank studs were probably based on punk piercings and a number of earlier marine models had mohawks.

Someone called?

ZF-

No you're missing the point. Black carapace IS a subdermal implant, bit SPAHZE MAHRIENS are so badass they take it off anyway.


Also, it would be more interesting if they took nasty, psychotic and otherwise unpleasant hive-gangers, and turned them into the noble, non-psychotic types through forceful mental conditioning. To emphasize the effect.

Whowhowhowhowhowhohnow hold on a sec, If doc thunder is right and space marines (hurr) are sardaukar that would mean there somewhere in the galaxy exists a planet, a deathworld so harsh, that its inhabitants are so hardened this cultures old people and children could defeat ultramarines, aint I right?

Yep it's called Baal

Llamahead-you just don't get what I mean. You propably havent even red the book.