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I have been wanting to build a SM army and have it chock full of Dreadnoughts, but they can be mowed down if they are up against any other army. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to field them without giant Lascannon/multimelta targets taped to them? Or should I just drop the idea of fielding any at all?

Try putting them behind ultra cheap predator destructors (60) points and they will be obscured (free smoke) yet are tall enough to get their shots off over the tanks hull. If you want three dreads take 3 preds (only 180) that is more armor than most can deal with plus it is all move 6" and still shoot everything.

HQ:
Master of the Forge

Elite:
Assault Terminatorsx5-8, Land Raider [Crusader]
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought

Heavy:
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought

It's a hard as nails list and absolutely brutal to play against.

I like both of the ideas, So, I'll see if I can get some preds and some more dreads.

if that doesn't work, then SM HQ guy here I come!

I would never take more than two dreadnaughts. Two together can be a powerful combination. I think if you run up against a melta heavy army they could make short work of six dreads quickly.

G

sourclams wrote:HQ:
Master of the Forge

Elite:
Assault Terminatorsx5-8, Land Raider [Crusader]
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought

Heavy:
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought

It's a hard as nails list and absolutely brutal to play against.

Kinda low on troops...hehe

Green Blow Fly wrote:I would never take more than two dreadnaughts. Two together can be a powerful combination. I think if you run up against a melta heavy army they could make short work of six dreads quickly.

G

Most people don't have "melta heavy" armies, in my experience. They run one squad of melta stuff, and that's their main close in anti tank. Turn the land raider sideways and do the 12" crab crawl popping smoke where necessary. You might lose 2 dreads on the way in, but the raider sucks up a lot of hits and assault terminators brutalize the occasional MC.

That very list is actually ultra-hard with the right weaponry loadout and entirely mounted in drop-pods.

5 Ironclads threatening HtH isnt a joke.

I am currently using meltas in all my BA squads...

VAS w. 2x meltagun
Tactical squads w. 1x meltagun
Attack bikes w. multi-melta

Heck even Dante has a meltagun. Anyways that probably skews my view.

If you did not have a lot of melta then it could be tough. I still think two is enough. BA were able to run six dreads back in 3rd and I don't remember anybody winning anything big with these types of lists.

G

One melta per squad won't be near enough to stop 5 dreadnoughts and a land raider filled with terms. Especially if it comes at the exclusion of long-range anti tank because you can just save smoke for the last rush into assault.

The termies in the LRC really help the dreadnaughts out a lot. I would love to read a batrep.

G

I run Dread Heavy space wolves, basic list is:

HQ: Ven Dread

HQ: wolfgaurd battle leader

Elite: Dread

Elite: Dread

Elite: Wolf Scouts

Troop: Grey hunters in HB razorback

Troop: Grey hunters in HB razorback

Troop: blood claws

Heavy: Vindicator

Heavy: Land Raider crusader

And the dreads work great.

the usual thing applies to dreads as with other vehicles, the more you take as a group the better they are individually.

also having a Vindicator tends to gaurentee all anti tank hits that until it's dead, letting the dreads get close to CC and start causeign masive damage.

Finally venerable makes a massive difference to surviviability

Remember that attack bikes are a lot more popular now. Dark eldar would be tough too but you don't seem to see them as often.

I would use a combination of Iron Clads and Venerables. I like the Iron Clad better but the Venerable makes the overall list a lot better in my opinion.

G

Out of curiosity, why do you feel a Venerable makes the list overall better?

Ironclads- Drop a bunch of them on the enemy first turn. At least 3, if not more.

Regular- I've seen 3 outfited with ranged weapons do very well in a heavy armored list. Do you want to shoot at the twin autocannon dread or the Land raider?

I like the venerable for the added survivability and better stats (WS5, BS5). I would run one of each for two dreads (one venerable and one iron clad), and one venerable and two iron clads for three.

G

Like was said before mount them in Drop Pods and have a field day. Remember just because you get them pods doesn't mean they have to drop if you prefer to walk them. Assuming you do the melta/heavy flamer weapon combo you'd only have 300 points for troops so you'd have to be careful

Hulksmash wrote:Like was said before mount them in Drop Pods and have a field day. Remember just because you get them pods doesn't mean they have to drop if you prefer to walk them. Assuming you do the melta/heavy flamer weapon combo you'd only have 300 points for troops so you'd have to be careful

that's enough for two ten-man scout squads with sniper rifles They could each hold down an objective, while your 6 AV13 vehicles wreak some havoc amongst enemy lines. With bolster defenses and a couple large blocks of area cover, you get one unit in 4+ cover, and one in 3+ cover. With 60 free points for camo-cloaks all around, you get one unit in 3+ cover and one in 2+ cover! Just hope you don't end up playing a list full of ignores-cover, kind of like...well yours

I think it is a very cool army. It would be very fun just for the conversions.

G

sourclams wrote:HQ:
Master of the Forge

Elite:
Assault Terminatorsx5-8, Land Raider [Crusader]
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought

Heavy:
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought

It's a hard as nails list and absolutely brutal to play against.

Cool this list is almost exactly like mine ecsept i swaped 2 of the ironclads for regular dreads with 2xTL autocannons, its the kind of long range firepower that makes MC's cry

Yeah I just played against:

Master of the Forge
The twin linked Melta/Flamer guy (I have no idea why I can't remember his name, I have only played against him like 800 times now)
2 10 man scout squads snipers/missile/cloaks
and
6 Ironclads with Drop pods.

I quit at the end of turn 2.

I do see a lot of ways that army will lose. But in the tournament environment, especially how green it is currently, this list could do well.

Yeah, this list has to win in the metagame. If your opponent has more than 2-3 high initiative monstrous creatures or an incredibly inordinate number of melta-equivalent weaponry (crisis Tau, drop/command Guard), you will be at a disadvantage.

But against horde style lists, nob bikers, or massed MEQ, and against the lists designed to fight and beat hordes, this many AV13+ vehicles will crush everyone.

Thanks everyone for all the input. I have a lot to work off of now! : )

I'd imagine that Mechedlar would be a pain to deal with.

Well, even as a Tau player this list just rolled me. I used 2 broadsides, a Hammerhead and 2 squads of Fireknife suits. The whole dropping in all over the board hitting side armor is bad bad news. Best of luck with this build.

People do tend to overestimate the power of the Melta against good armor. Assuming you do manage to get within 6" of an Ironclad with Extra Armor (difficult without first being charged) and fire a melta, here are the chances of a kill for a melta-toting marine.

Miss: (1/3 * 1/1) = 33%
Hit, No Damage: (2/3 * 1/6) = 11%
Hit, Glance: (2/3 * 1/9) = 7%
---- On a glance, only a roll of 5 or 6 will stop it. [2%]
Hit, Penetrate: (2/3 * 13/18) = 48%
--- On a penetrate, a roll of 3-6 will stop it. [32%]

So you're looking at around a 44% chance to do nothing and only a 35% chance for a single melta to stop an Ironclad from reaching assault. That's not very good odds when there are 4 or more of these monsters charging your lines. And once they are in combat even a power fist has little chance to stop it quickly.

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:I'd imagine that Mechedlar would be a pain to deal with.

Yeah snakes on a plane would love to play against the Dreadnought spam. Still though, If mech Eldar go first it is going to be a good game.

The best defense I have found so far against the dreadnought spam is to make them go first, and keep you stuff off the board in reserves. If you have a slow static force this can still suck.

Castling just makes you easier flame bait, and lets him circle you with pods for max melta/charge effect.

You absolutely must have a highly mobile offensive force if you're going to leave everything in reserves. I had a 2k game against Crisis and quasi mobile Tau where he let me go first and left it all in reserves.

With Spearhead Deployment and 2 turns of running, I had his entire deployment zone filled with drop pods, dreadnoughts and tac marines. I popped smoke at the end of my turn, a little under half of his stuff came on, a bunch of glances happened, and then 100% of my forces absolutely mulched ~40% of his. The rest of the game was me running after a Flat Out Devilfish.

And that is really the problem playing against this Army, you almost damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The more I play against it, the more it starts to stand out. Preparing for orks and armies like this is a nightmare. You have two total opposite ends of the spectrum. If you try to balance your approach, you will do well against neither.

Match-ups are going to play the biggest roles in tournaments this year. I guess that is always the case though.

sourclams wrote:You absolutely must have a highly mobile offensive force if you're going to leave everything in reserves. I had a 2k game against Crisis and quasi mobile Tau where he let me go first and left it all in reserves.

With Spearhead Deployment and 2 turns of running, I had his entire deployment zone filled with drop pods, dreadnoughts and tac marines. I popped smoke at the end of my turn, a little under half of his stuff came on, a bunch of glances happened, and then 100% of my forces absolutely mulched ~40% of his. The rest of the game was me running after a Flat Out Devilfish.

I think it is powerful but not top tier. Lash spam would could smoke it with all the Oblits and Nurgle meltas. Also if you have a low troop count your opponent can to after them exclusively.

G