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hi guys, I'm trying to plan a potential army but I've hit a bit of a road block. The idea is a chaos zombie horde. For the slugga boys I plan on using vampire count ghouls, the warbosses/nobs will be hordes of chaos chosen converted with power fists and some sort of gun and the big mek will probably be vlad von carstein..but I have no idea what to use as lootas/shoota boys? any ideas?

ork boyz with lootas?

ghouls with guns zombies carrying sacks, tyranid figs proably a carnifex with it's back hollow with figs in it, skeletons with sacks, Ig ogryns

the simple option would be the Loota models, but with heads replaced by zombie heads, and some legs replaced with chaos horde legs.

Or go for something deeply weird like loota-type guns walking around on TWO pairs of legs, i.e. cyber-zombies, if you want a Frankentein theme

Zombie animals (rhinos, boars sumti'n ork-sized) with guns nailed to them.

Lootas dont really seem to fit in with your theme- a hoard of zombies dont really seem to be the shooting type.

I agree a mindelss horde of zombies aren't going to do much shooting, they're more into lurching around and moaning 'Brains!'. similarly they wouldn't have much in the way of a command structure or any other fancy stuff.

But a zombie army built by an evil genius would contain whatever dark creations his/her twisted mind could imagine. All depends on Brado's theme...

yeah but i want something a little competitive...i agree they don't seem to fit haha. the best i can think of is more ghouls with weapons "growing" out of their arms, a la "the harrowed" demon army.

competitive? orks are highly competitive with out lootas. I dont have nor use lootas and ive stomped some SM ass a few times. and personally i dont like the zombie minis instead of orks. it just doesnt make sense to me

This is a GREAT way to play an army and not have to buy minis for it! "I'll use my WHFB Undead stuff and call 'em... Hmmm.. .ORKS! YEAH!"
Besides, $20 for a Codex and using your other figs is much cheaper than $300+ dollars for a whole new army to fit the Codex.

Fail.

And if ANYONE set a frikkin zombie in front of me with a FRIKKIN SACK in his hand and told me it was an Ork with a Shoota? I would jam my foot into their bean snake so hard. Then I would take their wallet and nab a credit card to ring up an Ork force and hand it all to them and tell them to stop being epic suck.

Dude, 'counts as' is so freaking lame most of the time.



Ghidorah

@Ghidorah: I think you need to calm down, everyone enjoys the hobby differently i dont think there is anything wrong with a counts as army that is done well. as long as it has been explained what they count as.

I also dont think fraud is a good way to win an argument.

brado for loota's how about "boomers" from left 4 dead they are massive undead that have long range vomit to damage you

you could base them off plastic Ogre's have one mid vom stream to show off your idea.

Hope it helps

Scragglefoot

i agree with ghidorah to be honest...
chaos zombies... sounds good... counts as orks? what?

scragglefoot wrote:@Ghidorah: I think you need to calm down

Whatever you say there, [mod edit].

scragglefoot wrote:i dont think there is anything wrong with a counts as army that is done well. as long as it has been explained what they count as.

You put an army like this down in front of me then, by your rationale, you won't mind me smashing a brick into your mouth as long as I explain that it "counts as" a poptart?


Seriously though, there's a big difference between "counts as" minis/armies and "counts as because I am too cheap/can't afford a new army but I want to play the codex". Did you actually read some of the suggestions for repping these lootas? Dude, zombies and skeletons with bags? BAGS? Seriously? "See this guy with this bag? The bag is a gun!" Woo!"

"Counts as" is a fantastic concept for making things that don't exist. For example, Eldar Exodites, Adeptus Custodes, or (ugh) these things. However, using the "counts as" convention to use HUGE amounts of existing minis in place of the minis already existing is just lame. Using an ENTIRE army for something else is just weak. Were somebody to use minis from another race/range/game for another Codex army, I would expect no less than massive conversion work to include at lease SOME semblance to the army they are repping. At the VERY LEAST, the better be some conversion work to make GUNS look like g******ed guns. You stick a mini with a bag and say it's a gun, you just suck.

Now, how about the opponents you face? Would an army like this be fair to another person? Fine if you're in your basement playing your friends over beers, but if you walk into a game store, your opponent should not be forced to have to try and remember what EVERYTHING in your army is. What kind of troops are these zombies? The same as these skeletons? No, wait they're the same as those skeletons, which are also what the wights are, but they are different than those skeletons.

"No, no, no, those are lootas. They have bags, see? Those guys are shootas. They have SACKS."



Whatever though. People are going to do as they wish with this game and that's cool. The thing is, not everyone is going to agree with you. When you post your ideas on a public message board, you are inevitably asking for comments and critiques whether you want them or not. He has every right to be stingy with his money and not buy Orks if he wants to. He has every right to use minis he already has as something they are nowhere near being.
I also have the right to think that that is a douchebag thing to do and I certainly have the right to post my disagreement without some asspickle telling me to calm down.



Ghidorah
Making friends one post at a time.

Do it well or don't do it at all!
A full army list with photos can help clear some confusion.

Just my two cents!

just to ask...Ghidorah how would you rep an all zombie army in 40k then?

I was pondering the same idea as the original poster...and had kinda settled on either nids or orks as the list to use...

Ghidorah wrote:

scragglefoot wrote:@Ghidorah: I think you need to calm down

Whatever you say there, muffintits.

scragglefoot wrote:i dont think there is anything wrong with a counts as army that is done well. as long as it has been explained what they count as.

You put an army like this down in front of me then, by your rationale, you won't mind me smashing a brick into your mouth as long as I explain that it "counts as" a poptart?


Seriously though, there's a big difference between "counts as" minis/armies and "counts as because I am too cheap/can't afford a new army but I want to play the codex". Did you actually read some of the suggestions for repping these lootas? Dude, zombies and skeletons with bags? BAGS? Seriously? "See this guy with this bag? The bag is a gun!" Woo!"

"Counts as" is a fantastic concept for making things that don't exist. For example, Eldar Exodites, Adeptus Custodes, or (ugh) these things. However, using the "counts as" convention to use HUGE amounts of existing minis in place of the minis already existing is just lame. Using an ENTIRE army for something else is just weak. Were somebody to use minis from another race/range/game for another Codex army, I would expect no less than massive conversion work to include at lease SOME semblance to the army they are repping. At the VERY LEAST, the better be some conversion work to make GUNS look like g******ed guns. You stick a mini with a bag and say it's a gun, you just suck.

Now, how about the opponents you face? Would an army like this be fair to another person? Fine if you're in your basement playing your friends over beers, but if you walk into a game store, your opponent should not be forced to have to try and remember what EVERYTHING in your army is. What kind of troops are these zombies? The same as these skeletons? No, wait they're the same as those skeletons, which are also what the wights are, but they are different than those skeletons.

"No, no, no, those are lootas. They have bags, see? Those guys are shootas. They have SACKS."



Whatever though. People are going to do as they wish with this game and that's cool. The thing is, not everyone is going to agree with you. When you post your ideas on a public message board, you are inevitably asking for comments and critiques whether you want them or not. He has every right to be stingy with his money and not buy Orks if he wants to. He has every right to use minis he already has as something they are nowhere near being.
I also have the right to think that that is a douchebag thing to do and I certainly have the right to post my disagreement without some asspickle telling me to calm down.



Ghidorah
Making friends one post at a time.

How is this stingy? VC ghouls cost the EXACT same as an ork boy does, plus I can't us AoBR orks (and even if it was stingy whats the skin off your back? I don't currently own more then 5 complete warhammer models (none of which are vampire counts) after I sold my necrons months ago). and I found ork rules to fit the "undead" scheme way better than any other list. Do you honestly think warhammer 40k makes sense? I could write a thesis on the number of ridiculous/impossible things going on in warhammer i.e. how does a tank from the year 40,000 only move ~10 miles per hour? how come SM models are so small, yet in the fluff they are double the size of a guardsmen? why is an IG LASER GUN, weaker than an SM BULLET GUN? All I wanted was to create a unique army not done a billion times *cough*orks*cough*. And I didn't post anything to be critiqued. I'm not even sure why I'm defending myself against someone so unreasonably defensive. I posted looking for suggestions on what to represent my lootas and I've decided to use ghouls with weapons GS'd into them, similar to obliterators. thanks for the helpful comments guys.

why don't you use the daemon or chaos space marine codex? These feature more ideal rules for chaos zombies so you don't have to spend the first 30 min of a game explaining what is what. Using the Ork codex will require way to much explaining.... zombie orks mabey, but chaos zombies...ehhhh

also with regards to your fluff critiques, tanks move around 10 mph because thats how fast games workshop want them to go (not trying to go for sleek starwars-esque scifi), marine models are same size because it works better for gaming and assembly purposes, and bolters are more powerful than lasguns because bolters fire miniature rockets compared to lasguns which fire a weak laser which burns it's targets.

ghoul with big 2 handed gun = loota. ghoul with pistol and ccw = ork boy. any warbosses/nobs will be obvious because a) they won't be ghouls and b) they will have powerfists. i don't see why people are finding this so difficult to conceive lol, it's not anymore complicated than deciphering which model is a warboss and which is just a nob.

lost wrote:also with regards to your fluff critiques, tanks move around 10 mph because thats how fast games workshop want them to go (not trying to go for sleek starwars-esque scifi), marine models are same size because it works better for gaming and assembly purposes, and bolters are more powerful than lasguns because bolters fire miniature rockets compared to lasguns which fire a weak laser which burns it's targets.

Exactly my point, warhammer 40,000 is a ridiculous attempt at predicting what future warfare will be like (just like any attempt at predicting the future). You can try to justify every decision by GW but when it all comes down to it...you can't because it's all a fake fantasy built around a storyline taking place 40,000 years from now and a semi-balanced dice game.

well, thats just the basics, then you start getting into various war gear and armory options followed by special units and tanks... just to much explaining in my opinion.

I'm doing a zombie imperial guard army and using the chaos daemons codex which is so far working quite well. All I have to do is point to my zombies and identify them as plaguebearers. Use the same weapons and wargear as regular plaguebearers but instead feature nurlge-ized imperial guard models rather than metal plaguebearers.

brado wrote:

lost wrote:also with regards to your fluff critiques, tanks move around 10 mph because thats how fast games workshop want them to go (not trying to go for sleek starwars-esque scifi), marine models are same size because it works better for gaming and assembly purposes, and bolters are more powerful than lasguns because bolters fire miniature rockets compared to lasguns which fire a weak laser which burns it's targets.

Exactly my point, warhammer 40,000 is a ridiculous attempt at predicting what future warfare will be like (just like any attempt at predicting the future). You can try to justify every decision by GW but when it all comes down to it...you can't because it's all a fake fantasy built around a storyline taking place 40,000 years from now and a semi-balanced dice game.

quite frankly, it's their game and they can write it up however they want, but when you want to come in and change what they have written to suit your needs, its bound to irritate other players..

lost wrote:quite frankly, it's their game and they can write it up however they want, but when you want to come in and change what they have written to suit your needs, its bound to irritate other players..

How am I doing ANY of those things? Why are people so set on trying to shoot down my army ideas? People use 'counts as' all the time ie using white scars with ravenwing rules, kroot with demon rules, those ad mech marine things as necrons (posted somewhere on dakka) and even you with your imperial guardsmen as a plague bearer. how does a ZOMBIE represent a manifestation from the warp? exactly it doesn't, but it's the best choice for you to represent your own creative ideas in terms of WH40K rules.

well, my zombies fit quite well under the current fluff (ala nurgles-rot). Personally, I'd have problems with any "count-as" army that takes longer than 5 min of time to explain what counts as what and requires constant reminders while trying to enjoy a game of warhmmer.

@Ghidorah: I dont like pop tarts

"Counts as" is a fantastic concept for making things that don't exist.

can you show me where the zombie codex is?
and by the sound of it he is going to be converting each one its not a case of putting a skellys with a spear and shield and saying they are orks.

can you only make up insults by doing the old bodypart+food idea? (breadlegs is one of my favs for that)

and as this is the internet i have every right to to give you my comments on your comments on someone elses ideas.

Scragglefoot

dont use orks, use chaos marines or daemons.
you will get SO much less agro

scragglefoot wrote:@Ghidorah: I dont like pop tarts

YAY! I thought I had gone a bit overboard here and was gonna piss somebody off big time.

Ghidorah wrote:"Counts as" is a fantastic concept for making things that don't exist.

scragglefoot wrote:can you show me where the zombie codex is?

Fair enough. You kinda got me there, but on a technicality. I just didn't word that stand-alone sentence well enough to convey my meaning. That sentence you so cleverly isolated so as to have it lose all context. Now then, had he made an undead 40k army and made his own CODEX (because, as you pointed out, there isn't one) we would be having a TOTALLY different conversation. Especially if his Codex was as brilliant as the Pan Fo.

scragglefoot wrote:and by the sound of it he is going to be converting each one its not a case of putting a skellys with a spear and shield and saying they are orks.

This is great. Is he going to convert all the skellies to look like Orks? Protruding brows, big jaws, fangs, short legs and bigger rib cages? Is he going to take Ork models and zombify them? That would be great! I would LOVE to see that. I have a feeling, though, that it'll be a case of "take a zombie, glue on a gun POOOF! I has Ork!" Which will be lame.

scragglefoot wrote:can you only make up insults by doing the old bodypart+food idea? (breadlegs is one of my favs for that)

No. I can come up with LOTS more, but I doubt they would be appropriate for here. If you wanted to go for a few pints and toss them around together, that would be a good time.
Besides, it sounds funny. I'll have to remember breadlegs. Not a bad one. It's no asspickle, but it could certainly have its uses.

scragglefoot wrote:and as this is the internet i have every right to to give you my comments on your comments on someone elses ideas.

Point taken.



@ Brado-
Dude... where to begin... I didn't even read your post at first because I didn't want to be crit by the wall of text. After replying to Scragglefoot's posts, though, I was in a great mood and decided to go back and read it anyway. What I found was a terribly formatted keyboardgasm of ridiculous 'facts' that were ALL completely wrong.
Examples:
1) Space Marines are not twice the size of Guardsman. Guardsman's height would be around 5'10" to 6 feet tall. A space Marine is, as I recall, 7 or 9 feet tall depending on where you look. Unless your math teacher was the same as your english teacher, I don't see twice the height that you claim.
2) A Space Marine's ammo isn't a bullet. It is a rocket-propelled miniature nuclear warhead... Hmmm... Hot light or nuclear explosion? You do the math. Oh wait... scratch that.

Brado wrote:I'm not even sure why I'm defending myself against someone so unreasonably defensive.

Silly person... You're defensive. I was on offense.



Ok. Here it is in a nutshell, not trying to be insulting to anyone:

Skellies, zombies, and ghouls in 40k with your own codex = potentially cool army.
Skellies, zombies, and ghouls in 40k as Orks = bad idea. Seems like wanting to play the 'Dex but not buy the minis.
Skellies, zombies, and ghouls in 40k with sacks for guns = Are you f'n slowed?
Calling your post "CHAOS Zombie horde counts as Orks" = Inviting criticism. Like it or not.



Ghidorah

corpsesarefun wrote:you will get SO much less agro

LOL! You must be ranged dps too. Aggro sucks. Tanks get all mad....


Ghidorah

Normally, to me atleast, telling somebody else they are wrong based on your own understanding of what is right is rather irritating - but, as this is the internet, I guess its the way to act around.

To me, the truth is somewhere between the lines here. I do understand the initial desire of doing something different and I also understand the rejection of it, since many times when someone does something different it just doesnt come out as planned.

Then again, I havent seen a single picture of these "zombies with guns" in this thread, so I would guess judgeing it to fail is quite moronic, but Im also not holding my breath in excitement here.
A few pics could clear the wiew rather nicely.

How many of you would oppose someone who came here to tell stuff about his ingenious plan to make this machine-race with a broadside of mindbogling conversions but not play them as say, necrons but as tyranids rules-wise?
Granted, sounds like something that could easily be some kids idea of a nidzilla list with alot of fexes and other big stuff, cleverly modeled from dear old dads beercans, bluetac and some doghair - but what if after the initial idea posted, the same guy would start to send us images of really off the chain masterclass conversions that would pretty much blow the heads and genitals of 90% of the dakka community? If you think this is something that would never happen, find what a regular dakkaist, "Migsula" has posted in the past.

I for one, would feel like a slow if I was one of those that flamed the idea before I even saw the skill level of the person who would actually try and make it happen.

This is ofcourse my 5 cents and ill be off with my high white horse soon, but first ;

Brado, your basic idea to my ears sounds solid - Just make it stand out with topnotch execution and avoid the flaming fingers. If you feel you are not yet able to pull something like this off, dont try to make a functioning tournament size army but start up small, just a model or two. If those come out great, just run with it and you might turn some heads with the finished, well-tought-off army.
About the choice of codex, I would rather just convert miniatures and then post some images to get some feedback - ive had alot of cool ideas from this community, but you do get better results with images rather than just text-based ideas! Make some basic conversions and ask us what we think they are - you might get responses that give you many options to think about.
The final decision of what is what is ofcourse all up to you - there is no laws in this hobby, tough there seems to be alot of enforcers.

Brado... screw the naysayers. I think it sounds like a great idea.

As for the Shootas and Lootas, how about mini catapults? Or Skeleton Archers? Not guns per se but ranged weapons of a sort. Skaven Jezzail or Poison Wind Globadiers?

I agree - don't use orks. If they're human zombies it would make more sense to use a human codex (WH, IG??) and if they're plague zombies it would make more sense to use a nurgle daemon/csm list.

Given the current strength of the Ork codex, and the fact that they have very little to do with zombies, it's hard to believe that you're using it because it's the best match fluff-wise....:/

The Green Git wrote:As for the Shootas and Lootas, how about mini catapults? Or Skeleton Archers? Not guns per se but ranged weapons of a sort. Skaven Jezzail or Poison Wind Globadiers?

He wants to play 40k, not fantasy. Skaven? Catapults? Skeletal ARCHERS? You've just suggested this concept to a whole new level of fail and tossed in some suck for good measure.
Are you related to the 'sack = guns' dude? "Not guns per se"? Wrong. Bows are not guns AT ALL. No "per se" about it.



Ghidorah