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I well respected member of my gaming group mentioned hearing about a tournament winning list where each nob was armed differently so wounds could be spread out. Nobs would last longer because wounds could be distributed to each, because of the unique equipment rule and wounds for multiple wound models. I thought about it but never wrote it up because a unit of nobs on bikes with a painboy are enormously difficult to destroy without this added rule. It's legal but is it fair?

Anyway here is my attempt at this list
801 points
Warboss, PK, Bike, attack squig, cybork body
10 Nobs on bikes
a. choppa/slugga
b. big choppa
c. big choppa/cybork body
d. PK
e. PK ammo runt
f. PK combi w/ rokkit, ammo runt
g. PK cybork body
h. Bosspole cybork body
i. Wanna banna cybork body
j. Painboy, grot, cybork body

801 points
Warboss, PK, Bike, attack squig, cybork body
10 Nobs on bikes
a. choppa/slugga
b. big choppa
c. big choppa/cybork body
d. PK
e. PK ammo runt
f. PK combi w/ rokkit, ammo runt
g. PK cybork body
h. Bosspole cybork body
i. Wanna banna cybork body
j. Painboy, grot, cybork body

20 ork boyz, nob, slugga/pk, bosspole 2 rokkits to hold that objective in the middle of the board

20 gretchin 2 runt herder 2 prods to hold that objective on my side of the board LOL

approx 1850

Opinions would be greatly appreciated.

I would have thought the nobs squads and attached warboss would have been cheaper. I don't know why anyone would fear this?

Not enough bodies, not enough shooty. No offense. I can think of 700pts of chaos that could obliterate and lash these two squads to death.

Try to make the same 2 super units, but...as cheap as possible? Its probably ok to have 2 nobs armed the same, also I don't know for sure, but I think ammo runts are a seperate model?

They get more towards 700 points with a couple less PK's and less cybork bodies.

The main reason its nasty is that:

-Both units are scoring
-They spread out and cover most of the board if wanted
-T5
-FNP, + always getting a 4+ cover save = 4+, then another 4+ (fortuned seer council anyone?)
-Spreading out the wounds means you have to do 11 unsaved wounds before anyone dies (barring of course the instakill weapons)

So think of it this way:

Its fast.
Its scoring.
It won't die.
It will wreck anything in combat.
They shoot well (Each comes with a dakkagun, 3 shot assault weapons at 18 inches on each bike, same profile as a bolter otherwise if memory serves me correctly, they may be str 5 though)

You really have to play it to understand the fear of it all though, once you realize you have both of those units in combat with you on turn 2 no matter what you do (even lash will need some amazing rolls to prevent combat after a 24 inch turboboost) it starts to seem a much larger army.

I however fear the variant that removes the boy squad and just uses a large squad of kommandoes + snikrot so that it comes in behind your opponent, foricng them towards the impending nob biker doom. The gretchin + 2 scoring nob biker squads is plenty for scoring units at 1750

Do you really need 10 per mob? I find 7 to be more than adequate, giving the army some other needed support units.

I'd take either two smaller Biker mob or one large Biker mob. Then I'd fill the rest with footslogging Boyz with some big gunz.

The rules for wound allocation are often misinterperted. You still have to allocate one wound to each model in the unit before you can allocation multiple wounds to a single model.

If one of your nob biker squads was shot at for instance, they would have to take 12 wounds for you to begin allocating them to the same model. If they took 10 bolter wounds and 2 plasma gun wounds, then you could allocate the plasma gun wounds to the same model, but it would be exceedingly rare for that to happen (they are T5 after all).

So while it is legal, with such large squads, it will almost never come up. Dont let your opponent trick you into thinking that he can just stack wounds on one guy before giving them to the rest of the squad, that would be cheating.

They aren't trying to stick them on one guy, they're trying to do exactly what you're saying.

Taking 12 wounds and not losing a model is a huge advantage, not all multi-wound units can do this, the only reason the nob biker mob can is that each model is equipped differently, so wounds are taken seperately for each model, and hence, each can be nominated to take a wound (or a wounded one to take an instakill wound) rather than having each second wound kill off a nob.

Edit: Ah, i think i see what you were saying, they aren't trying to say, take 10 wounds onto one model and then just remove him, they're using the unique equipment to allow them to say : 6 unsaved wounds, instead of 3 dead nobs, thats 6 wounded nobs, because each one has to save individually!

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take either two smaller Biker mob or one large Biker mob. Then I'd fill the rest with footslogging Boyz with some big gunz.

I would definitely increase the size of the bike squads, lotsa trukks though I've found can be pretty useful.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take either two smaller Biker mob or one large Biker mob. Then I'd fill the rest with footslogging Boyz with some big gunz.

I agree but my question was more about the fairness than the effectiveness. Is this an army that you would enjoy playing against?

I don't know if I'd enjoy the game or not. I think that has a lot to do with how the opponent plays than anything else.

If you take it to a tourney with soft scores, you may get tanked on Sportsmanship and/or Comp. If it's a Gladiator-style event, then I hope no one complains because you brought a big block o' cheddar.

anewbre wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take either two smaller Biker mob or one large Biker mob. Then I'd fill the rest with footslogging Boyz with some big gunz.

I agree but my question was more about the fairness than the effectiveness. Is this an army that you would enjoy playing against?

Id say he isn't even asking about comp., and to answer directly:

No, some parts of this list don't bother me, but its the wound allocation and other arguments that go long with this list that just make me loathe to actually play it. You'd have to be quite a guy to not make a game against this miserable.

It's fair, it's just such a challenging play and some armies would find it impossible to beat.
Personally I think turbo boost has gotten a little out of hand, 24"...

I think it would be fun to go up against. I think its reputation as 'cheese' makes it a thrill, because if you beat it, you did a great feat. However, I still do not like the composition of the Bikers, here is how I kit mine:

9x Nobz, Cybork Bodies
- PK, Slugga
- PK, Slugga, Waaagh! Banner
- PK, Kombi-Scorcha
- PK, Slugga, Ammo Runt
- Big Choppa, Slugga
- Big Choppa, Slugga, Bosspole
- Big Choppa, Kombi-Scorcha
- Big Choppa, Slugga, Ammo Runt
- Painboy

That is ~640 points (won't put specific total, but you can crunch it with the dex). That is not bad and each unit is very effective, instead of having ones that won't be much use.

Two mobs like that with a pair of Warboss Bikers (~300 pts), you can toss in two mobs of Grots (29 w/ 2x Runtherds) for ~215pts and you are golden. They squat on your home objectives and that is it. Or you can trim them for some Boyz, if you need to.

Just my thoughts and suggestions.

I don't get it why is playing against a powerful list not fun? I get bored when I play against weak lists and I insta win just by bringing a more effective list to the table.

Luckbox Sillypants wrote:I don't get it why is playing against a powerful list not fun? I get bored when I play against weak lists and I insta win just by bringing a more effective list to the table.

Because there are is a basic two ways to play this game. One is the all comers list like the one in this thread. The other being casual/fluffy lists. If you were to bring casual/fluffy lists to your FLGS to have a fun night of relaxed gaming then going up against an all comers list usually isn't ideal. Atleast that is how I feel. Most of the people I play against use casual/fluffy lists. This lists look great on the table, they may not look terrifying to face but they do look impressive.

Again that is just me though. Casual/fluffy games = a lot less stress and tend to have more laughs and good times.

With respect, this thread does imply that it's for tournament use.

I know and it is quite a good tourny list was just answering the question to Luckbox. Though when the OP does test this list make sure someone else is bringing an all comers list or you won't find anything you need to tweak and you will most likely auto win against casual/fluffy lists

also... keep the nob bikers away from nice fat termie assault squads with SS/SH. 3+ invuln against all your nasty klaws, as well as hammers that will 1-shot each and every biker (especially considering you didn't cybork every biker).

0ldsk00l wrote:also... keep the nob bikers away from nice fat termie assault squads with SS/SH. 3+ invuln against all your nasty klaws, as well as hammers that will 1-shot each and every biker (especially considering you didn't cybork every biker).

Which is why my loadout for Bikers, I think, is a smidge better. Cybork is a must have for all of them. As for Termies, those are the tough nut for this sort of army to crack. We just need to hope that we put enough wounds on them to see 1's and 2's.

but a 5+ invuln isnt gonna save you, just make it a LITTEL more survivable. I'd wager that you arestill looking at losing that combat, even if you get the charge.

(waits for the math-hammers to wind up)

I can't resist math-hammer, this is rough estimates, its not perfect to the letter:

8x SS/TH Terminators Vs. 10 Nob Bikers + Warboss

Generally the terminators come from a Land raider of some sort, and will get the charge, I'll work it up in a charge, not charging round, and getting charged, going to use basic loadouts. This also assumes the terminators are shooting for wounds through instakills and not going after the warboss, as is pretty common to remove the LD 10 from the unit. Just for simplicities sake for myself.

Terminators Charge

1Pk Warboss = 4 Attacks = 2.75 Hits, 2.5 Wounds, 1 Dead Terminator
4PK Nobs = 3 Attacks Per (12 Attacks) = 6 Hits, 5 Wounds, 1.5 Dead Terminators
6 Big Choppa Nobs = 4 Attacks per (24 Attacks) = 12 Hits, 10 Wounds, 1.8 Dead Terminators

~ 4 Dead Terminators, only 2 occurring before they get attacks (4 Wounds combat res)

6 Terminators = 18 Attacks = 9 Hits = 7.5 Wounds = 7.5 Dead Nobs or ~5.5 Dead with Cybork Bodies (~15 - 11 Wounds)


Terminators Charge = Terminators win combat by 11 to 7 (depending on cybork bodies versus no cybork bodies). They're needing either snake eyes or a 3 in the best case scenario to not get run down.

No one Charges

1Pk Warboss = 4 Attacks = 2.75 Hits, 2.5 Wounds, 1 Dead Terminator
4PK Nobs = 3 Attacks Per (12 Attacks) = 6 Hits, 5 Wounds, 1.5 Dead Terminators
6 Big Choppa Nobs = 4 Attacks per (24 Attacks) = 12 Hits, 10 Wounds, 1.8 Dead Terminators

~ 4 Dead Terminators, only 2 occurring before they get attacks (4 Wounds for combat res)

6 Terminators = 12 Attacks = 6 Hits = 5 Wounds = 5 Dead Nobs or ~3.5 Dead with Cybork Bodies (~10 - 7 Wounds)


No one charges = Terminators win combat by 6 to 3 (depending on cybork bodies versus no cybork bodies). They're needing to roll from 4 - 7 depending on how combat went in order to get not get run down

Nobs Charge

1Pk Warboss = 5 Attacks = 3.5 Hits, 3 Wounds, 1 Dead Terminator
4PK Nobs = 4 Attacks Per (16 Attacks) = 8 Hits, 7 Wounds, 4 Dead Terminators
6 Big Choppa Nobs = 5 Attacks per (30 Attacks) = 15 Hits, 12.5 Wounds, 2 Dead Terminators

~ 7 Dead Terminators, only 2 occurring before they get attacks (7 Wounds for combat res)

6 Terminators = 12 Attacks = 6 Hits = 5 Wounds = 5 Dead Nobs or ~3.5 Dead with Cybork Bodies (~10 - 7 Wounds)


Nobs Charge = Terminators win combat by 3 to 0 (depending on cybork bodies versus no cybork bodies). They're needing to roll from 7 to nothing (tied combat) depending on how combat went in order to get not get run down

Keep in mind generally a few facts:

Terminators will get the charge. They'll be in a LR, nob biker lists have relatively few answers to a landraider, besides an attempted charge (which isnt foolproof or a sure bet) so the transport rarely gets taken out early. The terminator charge range is 12 move, 2 inch get out, 6 inch assault, or 20 inches, the nobs is 18.

This assumes the nobs haven't been shot at all by the land raiders guns, and the guns in the rest of the army, and are at full strength when this happens.

This assumes the SM player doesn't direct on the warboss to remove the ld 10 and bump them to ld 7 (uh oh) just because it was a headache to do

This terminator squad costs 320 points. This nob biker squad with warboss is 800. Even the land raider only brings the terminator side to 560 or so, and if you add it in, you'll have to add in its shooting as well.

Yea, as expected, the TH/SS terminator is the rock to the nob biker scissor. Add in a combo like pedro (+1 attack bubble) or some shooting to soften them up, and its quite ugly.

What I tend to do then is try to knock out the Land Raider with whatever big guns I have (Boomguns, Rokkits, etc) and then swamp the Termies with Boyz for as long as I can so that I can get the charge in against the Termies, forcing them to allocate wounds on the Boyz, while I put all my Biker hits on their squad.

This is ideal and by no means a perfect solution, it is just what I always attempt to set up. That way, I get one full round of hits in against them with ~20 Boyz and a PK Nob, so I put a lot of wounds on them, then next turn I drop the hammer with the Bikers.

This really relies on me knocking out the Land Raider, which is the real trick. Kans w/ KMBs, Looted Wagons w/ Boomguns, etc This means that the Bikers are no longer the focus, of course, which means two smaller Mobs or one large one to act as a hammer to your anvil of boyz.

Anyhow, just some random strategic thinking.

Yea, orks definitley have WAYS to take out LR's in normal builds, however in the Nob biker build...its pretty slim

The best a rokkit will do is if you roll straight 6's it will immobilize it, other than that, you're no longer talking nob biker as you said, you're talking a more balanced list

Which is more what I'd like to see...

I think the bottom line here is that at 800 pts a pop, you can easily lose the entire squad to less than half that in terminators (something you can reasonably expect to face), and you are losing a significant portion of your force (LOST because you are losing combat horribly and most likely breaking, losing TB coversave, and possibly being escorted off the table).

The squads are relatively durable against anything that can only respond with massed small arms fire, but you are gonna get wtfpwned by anyone with the easy counter to this.

This is a classic example of rock, paper, scissors-hammer. I truly wonder why people with these armies stick around after setting up. the army playes itself, and fails or succeeds based on its own.

No offense, but I could never have fun with something like this; I play for the challenge, and there is no real challenge in something that doesnt really need a player behind it.

0ldsk00l wrote:I think the bottom line here is that at 800 pts a pop, you can easily lose the entire squad to less than half that in terminators (something you can reasonably expect to face), and you are losing a significant portion of your force (LOST because you are losing combat horribly and most likely breaking, losing TB coversave, and possibly being escorted off the table).

The squads are relatively durable against anything that can only respond with massed small arms fire, but you are gonna get wtfpwned by anyone with the easy counter to this.

This is a classic example of rock, paper, scissors-hammer. I truly wonder why people with these armies stick around after setting up. the army playes itself, and fails or succeeds based on its own.

No offense, but I could never have fun with something like this; I play for the challenge, and there is no real challenge in something that doesnt really need a player behind it.

Bit of a flame, but...well said, and can't say I disagree.

The only reason this army persists is that the marine codex is new, SS/TH termies aren't great against all armies and so aren't in every marine list (yet) and marines really do have one of the only reliable counters to this setup, as no one else has the new SS's yet, and many armies just got get the sort of masse str 8 resilient combat that marines do

targetawg wrote:Yea, orks definitley have WAYS to take out LR's in normal builds, however in the Nob biker build...its pretty slim

The best a rokkit will do is if you roll straight 6's it will immobilize it, other than that, you're no longer talking nob biker as you said, you're talking a more balanced list

Which is more what I'd like to see...

In the end, I think a more balanced approach is a lot stronger. At most, I would run maybe a single Nob Biker unit at 1500-1750, usually 6-9 with a single Warboss. The rest could be dedicated to beating what beats those, such as using a KFF Mek and some Kans with a few 20+ Mobs of Boyz to give the enemy too much to deal with and it gives the Bikers an anvil to strike against, ideally (or at least, that is how I play it).

targetawg wrote:
Bit of a flame, but...well said, and can't say I disagree.

Apologies, I got off on a bit of a rant there. A long time ago I used some really unbalanced armies that functioned a lot like this in that they were unstoppable half the time, and got rolled the other half. I got really bored because I didnt feel like I was actually playing the game. I have since tried to find armies that let me do the work, and rely less on rock/paper/scissors, or good dicerolls to succeed.

If you enjoy that playstyle, more power to you.

I was agreeing with it, even if it was a bit harsh is what I was saying.

I'd be interested to see a balanced ork list, even one with a single big nob biker list, and see how it does versus the dual nob biker list.

Seems to be that orks have plenty of counters to dual nob biker, bunch of tank bustas, killa kans, etc.

i've actually played that before, my army having the single nob biker squad then lots and lots of boyz and my boss sat with a squad of mega nobz and then 2 squads of big guns (3 kannons and 3 lobbas)

Mega Nobz and regular troops had issues with the dual nob bikers except when i got more than 30 boyz into the fight, then it usually wiped the bikes based on the sheer number of attacks. Mega nobz did ok against them but the mega nobz did have issues once they got into CC because klaw=no 2+ save for them.

The thing i found to be most effective against the nob bikers though were the artillery from the big gunz, with the kannons and lobbas i was able to take out about 3/4 of one of the biker squads on the second turn before swarming it with boys and finishing it off.

Overall, it was an interesting fight but i would have preferred to fight a balanced ork list instead, it wouldn't have been ended by about third turn when i took the Kannons and lobbas and removed half of the second biker squad, again swarming it with boyz to finish it off.


(my bikers did nothing against the other bikers, my bikers in truth did almost nothing besides screen some fire early in the game)

Your NOB BIKERS forgot WAGH BANNER which means they HIT on 3's!

Please also I agree that most bikers will have Cybork bodies, seen as they turboboost more often than not.