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Just curious what everyones experiance thoughts opinions ect. are with a wraith guard army? Like 20 or 30 in a 1750 list ?

I have seen it work. With the warlock boosting them it can be effective. However mixing mech and foot slogging seems to be the key. Wraithlords mixed in will help protect your boys. It is similar to a deathwing but not quite as effective IMHO. It is very very expensive to buy. Cool army but has drawbacks of being expensive and tricky to use properly. Just my observation from fighting them a few times.

Doesn't work.

It works against some things, and it provides an army that is hard to wound, kill by shooting, etc.

However, its also easy to just slam a couple big throwaway units into your wraithguard, and your wraithguard will never get out of combat. Any powerfist, powerklaw, etc, will rip through the unit like a knife through paper.

Against some things (nidzilla) its pretty good, against a horde army, an army with a decent amount of anti-tank, a close combat army, etc, its a serious uphill battle. If you're thinking of taking it for fluff reasons (go iyanden!) then by all means have a blast, its a really cool army to see/build/play. But if you're considering it to play to win, which is more what it sounds like when you say "wraithguard spam" and not iyanden, then it won't accomplish the goal you're looking for I'm afraid.

Wraithlords can make up the horde issue with dual flamers & highvoulume weaponary i.e scatterlasers, shrui cannons, EML plasma missiles while screening the guard from being bogged in CC. Guard shoot at anything else. Warlocks also work as a good cc screen, all three as one big scoring block

or

smaller units screened by bigger guardain units w/ warlocks in em. Keeps the guardains covered by conceal and the warlock protected by model count & the guard are covered by the guardains so 4+ cover. Fortune/doom farseer combos can make that save combo quite surviveable. This way you cant score with them (making them less of a threat/priority) and it frees up ur heavy support choices.

Annd also agrees with the fluff of large standing armies of guardains supported by more numerous wraithguard and lord units than normal.


(str5 T6 units with I5 and ws5 with a warlock with its witchblade (squad upgrade, untargetable) makes for some surprisingly decent cc. It still should shoot. Its just a fair amount better than standard MEQ if need be. A single fist wont kill a squad quickly. 10 str 5 attacks at ws & I5 and a few str 9's should neuter and break a marine squad much more than its retaliation. Dedicated CC units are advised to be shot at. )

yeah,
I've yet to make my wraithguard 'spam' army work. I agree they can be awesome.
But I have a hard time seeing it work in 5th... My old 4th ed iyanden list involved castling up with the wraithguard/lords and 15 reapers... but I don't think it'll work in 5th...

the problem is a scoring unit, 10men and a spiritseer, costs 400pts!
as a 5man squad, for any battle field task you could give them, there are better options elsewhere in the eldar list...

I'm interested in Razerous's opinions.
I'm currently painting more eldar units and varing my options before I give up on them.

Putting 30 wraithguard on the table is awesome, and with so few models to move your turns are quick and easy!

Panic...

i can how a unit of fearless toughness 6 models can benice for sitting on an objective, but the army is too few number and too slow, IMO. Maybe taking one unit would be worth it for an extremely durable scoring unit.

Here's the usual Iyanden List at 1750. And for the record, enhance on wraithguad is a big no no, as then you leave yourself to be one shotted very easily.

You need 3 scoring units at this points level, and to be a true Iyanden list and not a hybrid, this is the build. The poster asked about spam, so I'm guessing he isn't thinking about a hybrid yet.

30 x Wraithguard, Conceal spiritseers -> 1188
3 x Wraithlord -> BL/EML/Dual Flamer -> 465

--I'm not equipping these as razerous seemed to want, to be the anti horde with multishot weapons. What they should be is BL/EML as the wraithguard are slow, short ranged, and unable to take out heavy weapons/vehicles at long range, which is there biggest weakness, you need these AT wraithlords to neutralize this. This of course is just my opinion/experience running the army.

Subtotal -> 1653

You can see the issues this army has when run pure. Its scoring units are tough, but not mobile, and the opponent can decide how and when he engages them, and with what. Its not as bad at higher point levels, mostly because you can add a few fortune seers and some other things to do what it can't.

The best way I can see to run this army is as a light-hybrid. Run one big unit with something able to fortune it that scores have it sit on a home objective. Then have other mobile scorers to go out and get things, as well as make you more tacticly sound.

Thanks for all the posts guys! sumarry of the twi lists
I have bben thinking are
LIST 1.
HQ.
Farseer
-Spirot stones
-fortune
-guide
Farseer
-spirit stones
-Guide
-Fortune
Troops
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-enhance
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-enhance
X20 storm guardian
-fusion
-flamer
-warlock
-conceal
Heavy
Wraith lord
-BL
-Star cannon
Wraith lord
-BL
-scatter laser
Fire prism
-vectored engines
-holo field

p.s. guardians screen for wraith guard
Or..........
list two
HQ
Farseer
-Spirot stones
-fortune
-guide
Farseer
-spirit stones
-Guide
-Fortune
Troops
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-conceal
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-conceal
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-conceal
Heavy
Wraith lord
-BL
-Star cannon
Wraith lord
-BL
-scatter laser

Since it's Wraithguard spam you're wanting to run, I'd go for list 2 and I'd advise swapping the starcannon for EML or another scatterlaser.

With the limited range of their guns 12" I would think about smaller units and mounting them in wave serpents or falcons. Problem your gonna have with these 2 lists is that they are just good at taking wounds and that is about all. A shooty list will out shoot you, a assault list will out assault you and most armies are more manoverable. A average opponent will never let you close till its too late. If you mount them then then can get to where they are needed and put the hurting on the other elements of the list are fine. I have fought a similar list and it was easy to beat with an average list.

Just my 2 cents...

A WG-heavy army needs a counter-strike unit like Scorpions or Harlies that can help out if an expensive WG squad gets tied up in cc.

Speaking of expensive, you need a lot of real-life points to field that many WG. Good luck!

Depending on what points game you go for, try thinking about minimal squads of guard. Your now spending alot closer to the 150pt mark and when youve got 6 units worth about that much your making the other guy decide some tough choices. A 400pt option for a demolisher cannon shot or orbital isnt much of a choice.. for example.

3 wraithguard (maybe the fourth) 10(ish) guardains with ranged to peck away as that block moves up. A warlock in the guardains with power of your choice. Conceal. Storm guardains w/ more flamers if you choose enhance.

x 3

Heres the crus (youd loose ur guardains before long along with the warlock) An avatar - to support atleast 2 of the guardains and maybe another unit liike Da's or a seerconcil w/ a cheap farseer. Doom is great for weapons like the guard use. Also ranged. Compared to guide...which is a judgement call.

Wraithlords & the lone prism. I like it. Scatter laser/EML combos & thats str 4 blasts & str 6 heavy 4 which should not be sniffed at.

Or make em a bit more scary and take off one weapon and give em a sword & run them when you can. With a pure list there should be no problem deploying a few aspect squads (Im thinking a few warp spyders to give you some fast response) as that completely agree's with the fluff.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Speaking of expensive, you need a lot of real-life points to field that many WG. Good luck!

This is what I would do. Heck I could even do it if I had another $200 worth of Wraithguard.

2x 11x Wraithguard (includes Warlock)
Spiritseer, Conceal, Witchblade

1x Wraithlord
Wraithsword, Brightlance

2x 2x War Walkers
4x Eldar Missile Launcher

That comes to around 1200 and you still need HQ. I would just take an Avatar I think, although you could take an Autarch with Dire Avengers to keep the points down. After that you could put Bright Lances in with Guardians and one big Dire Avenger squad or you could take 6 man Dire Avenger squads. You are going to need anti-MEQ close combat in there someplace. Scorpions, Banshees with possibly an Autarch.

But that is a solid base of shooting. I would probably myself skip the Farseer. You could also fit in two Wave Serpents.

As far as making them useful is concerned, I have used them in small numbers they are Fearless but so is the Avatar.

I don't say this often but if you are taking Wraithguard I think you should really look at making sure you can "get their points back". They are not that resilient with only a 3+ save but Conceal goes a long way to mitigate their cost.

(Better value for points due to increased survieability: ) A single squad of scoring wraithguard, with a farseer hq with fortune allows you to re-roll ur 3+ armour, 4+ cover or 5+ cover from warlock. That second squad of wraithguard gets turned into 3 guardain squads. Add in an avatar and so far your entire army is fearless if you maintain coherancy. For 900pts. 4 scoring units. (=155+85+400+255 ish) Inc's ur 2x troop & 1xhq.

The rest can be elites, troops, heavy support. No hq's though!

Eldar without speed or maneuverability will become the whipping boy. Trust me on this. Get some speed in this list as fast as possible. I have fought, basically, this list and it is very easy to beat and it has few tactics to save it. Just want ya to have a chance is all.

Sha1emade wrote:Eldar without speed or maneuverability will become the whipping boy. Trust me on this. Get some speed in this list as fast as possible. I have fought, basically, this list and it is very easy to beat and it has few tactics to save it. Just want ya to have a chance is all.

Which list, is this?

Razerous wrote:Depending on what points game you go for, try thinking about minimal squads of guard. Your now spending alot closer to the 150pt mark and when youve got 6 units worth about that much your making the other guy decide some tough choices. A 400pt option for a demolisher cannon shot or orbital isnt much of a choice.. for example.

3 wraithguard (maybe the fourth) 10(ish) guardains with ranged to peck away as that block moves up. A warlock in the guardains with power of your choice. Conceal. Storm guardains w/ more flamers if you choose enhance.

x 3

Just as a nitpick, keep in mind you said "minimal squads ...when you've got 6 units worth about that much"

Unless you have 10 + spiritseer, its an elite choice, so max of the small ones is three. I always felt one of the strengths in this was just having such a tough unit that scores, soon as it doesn't score Im not so sure its that great. Not sure if you meant this or not, just a quick comment.

Pretty much this list. Wraithguard are great but if they are not mobile they don't achieve much. They can be sidestepped semi easily. Play against them enough and you will see what I mean.

HQ
Farseer
-Spirot stones
-fortune
-guide
Farseer
-spirit stones
-Guide
-Fortune
Troops
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-conceal
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-conceal
X10 wraith guard
-spirit seer
-conceal
Heavy
Wraith lord
-BL
-Star cannon
Wraith lord
-BL
-scatter laser

Something similar. This list and the one with fire prisms. Fire prisms I do not count for maneuverability as they pretty much stay as far away from the enemy as possible. So pretty predictable as to where they will be. It is impressive how much punishment wraithguard can take but if they are ground pounding it they are easy to avoid or attack on the opponents terms. Put them in wave serpents and you have a heavy hitting fast unit that can choose its fights. Generally those it will win with ease. Have a couple of them and you opponent will have difficulty concentrating fire on your tough units or hiding his. I have seen wraith guard with transports used to great effect. On the ground they are to be ignored while the rest of your army is picked off while they side step your big units. That will have to take objectives eventually. Which will limit your mobility further with them. Then they just get shot till the game is over. But with serpents you can take the fight to your opponent early and force a fight on his objectives therefor making yours easier to defend. Then sit on them and make it real hard for him to take you down. Just what I have seen work to great effect in the past.

Not saying you have to do it this way to be effective but it might be worth concitering as tactically it has more options and will help you get the most out of you wraithguard. Not that you have to go pure mech either. Just 1 or 2 wave serpents and / or a falcon with another unit like fire dragons will open your list up to more possible tactics. And will take some of the heat off your heavy hitters.

As for them being a scoring unit. Sure its nice but what a 400pts squad can do is the same as what a 80 to 100 pt guardian squad can do in that sense. Example in a mission with say 5 objectives. You can claim 3 and contest 2 more. But you pretty much need to chill on them. You opponent now has 1200pts of your army not doing anything but roadblocking. He picks off your other units and concentrates all firepower/assault on one of your big units. Perhaps tankshocks the wraithguard off the objective last turn. So the fact they are scoring is minimal as contesting is JUST as good. You can own one and contest the rest and you win. The wraithguard need to be inflicting pain or they are wasting points IMHO and the only way to do that is to get there, hence serpants.

Just want you to hear as many options as possible before you start buying the stuff.