Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Im looking for mobile dakka. Its not gonna be found in heavy support. Im fond of these guys? Have people played with them? Opinions? Are there alternatives.. I was thinking jetbikes could provide similar roles.

In smaller games with vehicle armor restrictions (combat patrols or triple nickel games) warp spiders rule.

In larger games, 1000+ points, their short range and low T is too much of a liability, in spite of armor saves. Not worth taking. Low strength and 1 attack base cripples them in HtH.

You can get the same amount of firepower with a better range and more durability in the FA slot out of massed vypers with shuriken cannons (and possibly shuriken cannons underslung).

In very large games (2000+ points) I've had luck using them as a bodyguard for a fusion-gun wielding antitank jumping autarch. But that's a special case.

For similar points and function, jetbikes do it better. They're Troops, can mount a few 24" weapons among them, and can move faster and gain a coversave when doing so. Overall, bikes do it better. Now, Withdraw may make Spiders look temptingly survivable versus assault-based foes, but given that the Exarch can die leaving you high and dry and that the Exarch costs as much as 2 jetbikes, bikes are still better at the same game.

Like I said, I want em for dakkka, not HTH.

So ive either got:

6man spyder team w/ exarch & spinnerett rifle = 10xstr6 shots @ 12'' with another str 6 ap1 at 18'' pinning. Bs4

6man jetbike w/ 2x shuriken cannon = 8 x tl str 4 12'' & 6x str 6 ap5 24'' shots.. all at bs3.

3x Vypers w/ shuriken cannons = 9x str 6ap 5 24''.. bs3.

I think ill try the spyders first, they will have thier use.. if not then ill go for the jetbikes. Never liked Vypers.. but I can field them as seperate units if I do use them.

No one ever takes spidies anymore :(

I have actually never faced them in any vs eldar battle yet!

Then im decided. See sig.

Razerous wrote:Like I said, I want em for dakkka, not HTH.

So ive either got:

6man spyder team w/ exarch & spinnerett rifle = 10xstr6 shots @ 12'' with another str 6 ap1 at 18'' pinning. Bs4

6man jetbike w/ 2x shuriken cannon = 8 x tl str 4 12'' & 6x str 6 ap5 24'' shots.. all at bs3.

3x Vypers w/ shuriken cannons = 9x str 6ap 5 24''.. bs3.

I think ill try the spyders first, they will have thier use.. if not then ill go for the jetbikes. Never liked Vypers.. but I can field them as seperate units if I do use them.

If you are going to use them, please use the dual spinners instead of the spinnerett rifle. The pinning will be never worth in and IMHO a single-shot weapon gun is rarely useful if its not reliable AT or mass Anti-personnel (like a template).

Agreed on the dual spinners. Eldar have other units better suited to antitank and pinning. The exarch's 4 shots at BS5 (nearly always scoring 4 wounds, sometimes 3 against T4 and less models) is too much to give up for a shot that might sometimes be useful in particular cases.

Also consider upping the squad to 8 models. Typically you lose 2 to any given volley, so that will put you outside having to make a break test. Also the extra bulk & firepower is really significant from the 2 extra.

I see your point about the dual-spinners.. but ive seen marines make 3+'s all day long. I may up it to an 8man squad.. but id loose out in other areas.

Do you want them to be mobile anti-infantry firepower,
or anti-tank?

just remember if they really suck in HtH then their short range will literally kill them :s

If you're going to use Warp Spiders, you have to finesse them and babysit them, and often sacrifice them to draw fire from something more important.

An 8-model Warp Spider unit can fire on any T4 unit and force about 11-13 saves, regardless of cover or invulnerable saves or whatever. So they can wipe out or grind down smaller units, force hit allocation wounds to take out the odd character or special weapon, and set up for more long-range fire to finish off the expensive, hidden models.

Then they can almost always jump out of counterassault range--more reliably than jetbikes--or hop in and finish off the last 1-2 models.

You have to do a lot of jockeying for range. If you can hit the 23" range sweet spot from a flank, then an MEQ opponent is forked into having to either take his diminished long-range rapid-fire shots, or move up and not double-tap. Either way, you're in position to hop in, light him up at 12" and then hop away.

Squadrons of AR 10 vehicles (speeders, vypers, ork traks) are doomed if a warp spider unit gets within 23". The massed str6 firepower blows through them like paper. Same goes for any vehicle with AR10/11 facings if the spiders can get that shot.

But they are fragile and I still contend that there are better choices in the Eldar list for the points (but not jetbikes--they can't mass the same amount of str6, BS4 & 5 firepower for the points).

Fun to play, but not optimized.

I just think they are cool.

Coolness factor is considerable. They're the only unit you can make "bampf" noises for while moving them around the table.

[edit] also one related change in the older version is significant. In 4th edition, Warp Spiders "ignored" *all* terrain effects, which was super-cool and very broken-Eldar. Now they count as jump packers, so have to make dangerous terrain tests. A small attenuation of the coolness factor, another sign of the genericization of 40K, but still.

I do find Warp Spiders a fun unit to use in friendly games, but I don't take any in tournament lists. Putting down 30 spiders and rolling buckets of dice for each squad is really fun. They will force a lot of armor saves, but like anything in the Eldar army, it needs to be backed up or working in conjunction with something else.

Another note- if you're going to play Spiders, get very good at judging exactly what 12" looks like (no jokes, guys...). Your effectiveness for fire and ability to avoid counterassault depend on that.

Also, if you're not taking Withdraw, more bodies are almost always better than the Exarch's gear or BS5. If you're taking a single squad, and Exarch with Withdraw can really help keep your harassment troops alive and punish anyone who tries to catch them. If you have two squads though, go for quantity over quality and no Exarchs. Just my $.02.

I agree no exarchs and just go for more bodies with multiple shots. Thier role in the new edition is really just anti infantry with the new armor pen rolls. Only being able to glance makes them better at shooting MC's and troops.

They have 3+ saves, which most people forget.

Don't be terribly afraid to leave them within 24" of a Tac squad, Guardsmen or any other non-AP3 weaponry wielding weaponry.

They can obliterate them next turn.

Plus im gonna use them in a small game so usually those tac squads are combat squaded.

But heres one for yee dakka's - 2 x 8-10man spyder squads with two autarchs, probably wielding fusion guns. Add in a couple outflanking war walkers annd.. anything else cool that can deep strike and have it all turn up second turn on the 2+ Your looking at 320pts per autarch squaad though, roughly. -In a decently sized game, say 1500pts.

I've used the Autarch with fusion gun and warp jump generator and he adds considerable antitank threat to you warp spiders. He can always split off from the squad and jump behind the tank for the easy shot (hitting on a 2) while the warp spiders go after another target or prepare to light up whatever comes out of the transport. Also the autarch joined with the squad gives them the benefit of plasma grenades while he gets the benefit of extra bodies to soak up those "lost in the warp" casualties on assault jumps.

I've never had any luck deepstriking warp spiders. They have the mobility to be where I want em by turn 2-3 anyway most of the time.

That's a good point about the combat squads; I remember noticing that but not remembering it recently in games against marines. A combat squad can be wiped out or seriously crippled by one volley from a 8-model spider unit. If there's a character with the combat squad, the volley usually only leaves him with a few ablative wounds to soak up the follow-up shots from warwalkers or pathfinders.

Also.. focoused blast on a wounded combat squad with a special char = a str 9 ap 2 hit on that char.

Good luck with that iron halo

While combat squading is useful, its nice to have weapon in the eldar army which makes a player stop and think : Are ya feeling lucky punk, well am I?! Punk..

How much of an army could you have reliably (& when I say that, i mean usefully) coming out from reserves? Unless youve got the ability to outflank - its your own board egde right? So only really long-ranged stuff or things that can either turbo-boost (your scoring troops there) or Fast/skimmer move.

Whats better, shooting at 6' with a fusion gun (with an autarch) or charging in and planting a haywire grenade? I supose its AV14/14/14 fun times. (And, ive just thougt, if you can shoot @ 6' to get the double armor pen then you can charge too!)

Sliiightly off topic - but an autarch with a lance, mandi-blasters and a jetbike, with a guardain jetbike squad (id say 6-9) with a jetseer probably with enhance, how good a CC unit is that? Now I assume on a charge, the autarch gets his (base of 3+1(mandi)+1(lance power weapon & shuriken pistol)+1(charging)) 6 str 6 power weapon attacks, with a seer with a witchblade, then 6-9 guardains at str 3, WS4, I5? Compremising that it does have 2-3 shuriken cannons, (quite possibly a reaper cannon aswell), is scoring - and is a slightly different platform than the spyders and assuming that you will you them in conjunction with a spyder & autarch squad.

Warp Spiders are great.
You can do crazy things with them.
Once I used them to move 12'' into an approaching Nids wave. They shot the Warriors and then moved 2D6'' behind the wave into a building. Ouch! The Nids player almost got nuts.

But never take small squads. They don't cut it.

In terms of scale.. smaller squads, in smaller point games? We do 1000pts at my mates FLGS (His living room infact).. Plus I think its more tactical do play and win smaller point games - nob bikers are proof of this as are alotta other power builds that need the points to play..

But then again, im not sure what the optimum army point game 40K was made for - as you obviously cant field any kind of vaired army with 300pts nor will 10,000pts being doable.