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Hi All,

Have knocked this together through some playtesting and army design concepts.
I am going for a Hybrid of Mech and Static Tau. I have given up on worrying about kill points as Tau seem destined to suffer in that particular mission. I am pretty happy with the Troops choices [the 3 and 3 of kroot and FW] as it gives me plenty of auxilaries for conversions and fire warriors for pulse shots.
Other than these points please hack away at the list. Anything you can suggest to tighten up the list for 5th ed would be appreciated.

tx

1750pts
104 Models
11 Markerlights

Shas'el - Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Missile Pod, Flamer, Stimulant Injector, HW Target Lock, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones
131

2 Crisis Suits - 2 Plasma Rifles, 2 Missile Pods, Multi Trackers
124
2 Crisis Suits - 2 Burst Cannons, 2 Missile Pods, Multi Trackers
100
2 Crisis Suits - 2 Twin Linked Flamers, 2 Missile Pods
86

11 Fire Warriors
+ Shas'ui - Markerlight, HW Target Lock
145
10 Fire Warriors
100
10 Fire Warriors
100
13 Kroot + 5 Kroot Hounds
121
14 Kroot
98
10 Kroot
70

5 Pathfinders
60
+ Devilfish - 2 Gun Drones, Disruption Pod, Flechette Dischargers
95
5 Pathfinders
60
+ Devilfish - 2 Gun Drones, Disruption Pod, Flechette Dischargers
95

2 Broadsides - Advanced Stabilsation System, TL w. HW Target Lock, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones
200
Hammerhead - Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Multi Tracker
165

Im not a tau player and might be wrong but this looks quite solid.

This seems like a very well balanced take-all comers tournament list.

one issue that you need a ton of kroot to survive a charge in CC. You may want to consolidate the two latter squads into one, and run two huge 20 man krot units. of course, if you intend to simply use the 10 man team as a "pillbox" unit, then 10 is ideal in size.

Clear up a few point to put knives on the Fire warriors. The last thing you need is a leman russ or a vindi putting down a pie plate on them (which, as a mech tau player, is the FIRST thing I'd do) and sending them running off the table.

This list is not that great in 5th edition.

Consolidate your non-maximum size units, and I mean all of them. Then add shield drones to your crisis teams. If you can't count on LOS blocking terrain, you need to be able to play in the open, shield drones are your only answer. I would run 2 crisis teams with drones, plus the Shas'el with his own drones.

Keep one really big kroot unit, ditch the other two and buy more devilfish, add the cool weapons like taget arrays and smart missle systems. Nothing says love like having 8-12 firewarriors inside a disruption pod equipped devilfish that tosses off 7 bs4 str5 shots. Upgrade the hammerhead the same way, consider a target lock, move 6, railgun a tank, smart missle system a troop unit. Ditch fletchette discharges for disruption pods, decoy launchers, multitrackers and target arrays as required.

When you are done your list will probably give up about 12 kill points. Nothing awesome like a choas marines list that'll give up a paltry 8 or 9 pts, but way better than 16 that I see now.

This looks fairly solid. For me it depends how you are going to run the fish, if you wnat to make them warfish or not. I like FDs in 5th edition, as everyone will fancy the av10 rear of the fish in cc... and then get wounded on a 4+, nice!

I would consilidate your kroot into a couple of units, and I don't much like the XV8 load out. It's just me, but I like to have weapons with a similar strength/range together. Missile Pods with BCs don't work imo. I would prefer to have twin linked MPs and shield generators or drones.... but again depends on how you run them.

Also, broad sides - ASS? What support system are you running?

Ouber wrote:Im not a tau player and might be wrong but this looks quite solid.

Cool

Milquetoast Thug wrote:This seems like a very well balanced take-all comers tournament list.

one issue that you need a ton of kroot to survive a charge in CC. You may want to consolidate the two latter squads into one, and run two huge 20 man krot units. of course, if you intend to simply use the 10 man team as a "pillbox" unit, then 10 is ideal in size.

Clear up a few point to put knives on the Fire warriors. The last thing you need is a leman russ or a vindi putting down a pie plate on them (which, as a mech tau player, is the FIRST thing I'd do) and sending them running off the table.

Thanks, The Kroot need to be in three separate units for the three different types of Auxiliary models.

Bonding Knife you say... I will put one on my Shas'ui then.

Sazzlefrats wrote:This list is not that great in 5th edition.

Consolidate your non-maximum size units, and I mean all of them. Then add shield drones to your crisis teams. If you can't count on LOS blocking terrain, you need to be able to play in the open, shield drones are your only answer. I would run 2 crisis teams with drones, plus the Shas'el with his own drones.

Keep one really big kroot unit, ditch the other two and buy more devilfish, add the cool weapons like taget arrays and smart missle systems. Nothing says love like having 8-12 firewarriors inside a disruption pod equipped devilfish that tosses off 7 bs4 str5 shots. Upgrade the hammerhead the same way, consider a target lock, move 6, railgun a tank, smart missle system a troop unit. Ditch fletchette discharges for disruption pods, decoy launchers, multitrackers and target arrays as required.

When you are done your list will probably give up about 12 kill points. Nothing awesome like a choas marines list that'll give up a paltry 8 or 9 pts, but way better than 16 that I see now.

Im not sure I understand.

Tau units on the whole have really fragile units. I would have thought MSU would be the way to go... as stated in my first post i dont feel the need to worry about KP missions. They are only 1/3 of Tournament gaming and if managed correctly can lead to wins.

Don't get me wrong, Tau are not rubbish but they are one of the most challenging armies to use in an enviroment containing Orks, Nids and MEQ. Part of the appeal to me I guess.

Wakinglimb wrote:This looks fairly solid. For me it depends how you are going to run the fish, if you wnat to make them warfish or not. I like FDs in 5th edition, as everyone will fancy the av10 rear of the fish in cc... and then get wounded on a 4+, nice!

I would consilidate your kroot into a couple of units, and I don't much like the XV8 load out. It's just me, but I like to have weapons with a similar strength/range together. Missile Pods with BCs don't work imo. I would prefer to have twin linked MPs and shield generators or drones.... but again depends on how you run them.

Also, broad sides - ASS? What support system are you running?

I really like drones for the annoyance factor, plus they tie into the MSU idea. So upgrading Dfish with Multi Tracker+Targetting Array just for the Burst Cannon seem silly. ;-)

FD are gold, They scare everyone!

I am a big fan on two weapon battlesuits. Most suits are 50pts+ and you only have three slots. Therein you have get all the special weapons that troops in other armies carry. Part of the fun of Tau.

Oops, You are correct on the Broadsides, ASS.

Sirath wrote:Shas'el - Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Missile Pod, Flamer, Stimulant Injector, HW Target Lock, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones
131

This is another one of those scary weapons. I sat two teams of pathfinder ranges in cover, second floor.. he leveled 2-3 squads of 8man firewarriors at them for about 3 turns.. one squad just took it all - i rolled well (withn 2+ it aint hard) and didnt loose a man, the second squad lasted well but took more damage and got charged by some kroot.

These guys opened up and decimated his front line & continued to do so for a good long while.

With one of those weapons fielded, I wouldntve gone anywhere near & thus probably done alot less damage.. Likewise, great against low armor hordes.

no kroot only tau!

The Air Bursting Fragmentation Projector can't use markerlights.

Capt K

Wow, good call - I hadn't noticed that note on the frag projector before...

Sirath, what do you mean about having your kroot in three different squads because of "Auxiliary models"?

MythicalMothman wrote:Sirath, what do you mean about having your kroot in three different squads because of "Auxiliary models"?

I am planning to have different alien allies for my Tau army;

Kroot, Human, Nicassar + Naga.

The Naga prototype is finished, you can see him here;

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/220201.page

MSU with lots of units that once under half strength can't rally and only have leadership 7 base is not the way you want to go with MSU. If you wanted to go MSU with low leadership, taking 20 5man units where your opponent can't attack each of them in a game is viable, but thats not possible. If everyone at least had decent leadership (8) or if you wanted to risk an ethereal, then MSU works again. I notice you are doing MSU with your crisis teams as well. I did it last year, and it worked amazing. Now though, I don't beleive I'll always get a 4+ cover save, and even if I do, it worked in that 50 man tournament because I could jump out of line of sight. I don't think that tournament origanizers are going to have correct 5th edition terrain, so you'll pretty much have to realize you need to build towards playing on open fields. If thats the case I don't want a missle launcher killing a crisis suit on a 4+, i want that missle launcher killing a sheild drone on a 4+. My build would be solid, large squads with sheild drones for suits, and devilfish for troops.

Honestly I've never been troop friendly, but considering that you cant win without them, now I want my devilfish. I ran 2 troop choices last year, but now I'll want 3 but probably 2 again. Probably 1 pathfinder unit, and 2 troops in devilfish. The rest of my army will be farsight, shas'o (sazzlefrats config = missle pod, plasma rifle, fusion blaster) with 2 sheild drones, and whatever pts are left over are missle pod/plasma rifle suits (2x2 1 with sheild drones, the other attached to the shas'o who has a targetlock, and therefore using his sheild drones). And I'll want 1 x hammerhead, and a unit of broadsides with drones. I like kroot, if i didn't run farsight for sure I'd have one unit of them all tooled up. Its not fully though out yet, I think I'll need a flamer somewhere, but at least I get ork fighter on everyone. Who knows, Tau are a difficult list to run, on that I 100% agree with you.

Sirath wrote:

Sazzlefrats wrote:This list is not that great in 5th edition.

Consolidate your non-maximum size units, and I mean all of them. Then add shield drones to your crisis teams. If you can't count on LOS blocking terrain, you need to be able to play in the open, shield drones are your only answer. I would run 2 crisis teams with drones, plus the Shas'el with his own drones.

Keep one really big kroot unit, ditch the other two and buy more devilfish, add the cool weapons like taget arrays and smart missle systems. Nothing says love like having 8-12 firewarriors inside a disruption pod equipped devilfish that tosses off 7 bs4 str5 shots. Upgrade the hammerhead the same way, consider a target lock, move 6, railgun a tank, smart missle system a troop unit. Ditch fletchette discharges for disruption pods, decoy launchers, multitrackers and target arrays as required.

When you are done your list will probably give up about 12 kill points. Nothing awesome like a choas marines list that'll give up a paltry 8 or 9 pts, but way better than 16 that I see now.

Im not sure I understand.

Tau units on the whole have really fragile units. I would have thought MSU would be the way to go... as stated in my first post i dont feel the need to worry about KP missions. They are only 1/3 of Tournament gaming and if managed correctly can lead to wins.

Don't get me wrong, Tau are not rubbish but they are one of the most challenging armies to use in an enviroment containing Orks, Nids and MEQ. Part of the appeal to me I guess.

Just as an aside.... I finally looked at your tau that you posted pics of....

one word

WOW - I'm in love. I want to do my army over again (3rd time!)

I'm assuming you have a HWMT on that 'el?

How are you going to use the PF's Devilfish? Are they going to become FoF 'fish for the FW's? You have a unique situation, because now you have two possible re-rolls of the scatter die when rolling for deep strike. I would replace the AFP on the commander with a Positional Relay have some deep striking flamer fun!

Sazzlefrats wrote:
MSU with lots of units that once under half strength can't rally and only have leadership 7 base is not the way you want to go with MSU. If you wanted to go MSU with low leadership, taking 20 5man units where your opponent can't attack each of them in a game is viable, but thats not possible. If everyone at least had decent leadership (8) or if you wanted to risk an ethereal, then MSU works again.

As you say, it is not possible to go with true MSU, only a shadow of it.
As Tau are so fragile and really don't gain as much as say Orks with large units, there is not much benefit in large units.
However the Force organisation chart restricts you to only six troops choices... so you have to squeeze in a balance.

Sazzlefrats wrote: I notice you are doing MSU with your crisis teams as well. I did it last year, and it worked amazing. Now though, I don't beleive I'll always get a 4+ cover save, and even if I do, it worked in that 50 man tournament because I could jump out of line of sight. I don't think that tournament origanizers are going to have correct 5th edition terrain, so you'll pretty much have to realize you need to build towards playing on open fields. If thats the case I don't want a missle launcher killing a crisis suit on a 4+, i want that missle launcher killing a sheild drone on a 4+. My build would be solid, large squads with sheild drones for suits, and devilfish for troops.

Two seems to me to be the right balance, One is a waste of a precious Elites slot, three is too cumbersome to hide and a single casualty forces a Ld test. [Same as two, but not for the extra suit cost]
Two is better in 5th as there are no longer 'All on your own tests' and with one suit left you can always rally.

Sazzlefrats wrote:
Honestly I've never been troop friendly, but considering that you cant win without them, now I want my devilfish. I ran 2 troop choices last year, but now I'll want 3 but probably 2 again. Probably 1 pathfinder unit, and 2 troops in devilfish. The rest of my army will be farsight, shas'o (sazzlefrats config = missle pod, plasma rifle, fusion blaster) with 2 sheild drones, and whatever pts are left over are missle pod/plasma rifle suits (2x2 1 with sheild drones, the other attached to the shas'o who has a targetlock, and therefore using his sheild drones). And I'll want 1 x hammerhead, and a unit of broadsides with drones. I like kroot, if i didn't run farsight for sure I'd have one unit of them all tooled up. Its not fully though out yet, I think I'll need a flamer somewhere, but at least I get ork fighter on everyone. Who knows, Tau are a difficult list to run, on that I 100% agree with you.

Totally think this is viable. Would dearly love to run Farsight, but he restricts you from having Kroot. Which sucks.

Sazzlefrats wrote:Just as an aside.... I finally looked at your tau that you posted pics of....

one word

WOW - I'm in love. I want to do my army over again (3rd time!)

Lol, Thanks man.

synchronicity wrote:I'm assuming you have a HWMT on that 'el?

How are you going to use the PF's Devilfish? Are they going to become FoF 'fish for the FW's? You have a unique situation, because now you have two possible re-rolls of the scatter die when rolling for deep strike. I would replace the AFP on the commander with a Positional Relay have some deep striking flamer fun!

Yes indeed, my mistake.
The Dfish can be used for either FoF for the Fire Warriors or maybe the Kroot...

Im not so sure you can ever re-roll a re-roll. The rulebook says it is not allowed.






Anyway - I have amended the list a bit. See below;

Total: 1750pts
100 Models
8 Markerlights
18 Kill Points

HQ

Shas'el - Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Flamer, Missile Pod, Stimulant Injector, Hard Wired Multi Tracker, Hard Wired Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones
131

Elites

2 Crisis Suits - 2 Plasma Rifles, 2 Missile Pods, Multi Trackers
124

2 Crisis Suits - 2 Twin Linked Flamers, 2 Missile Pods
86

2 Crisis Suits - 2 Burst Cannons, 2 Missile Pods, Multi Trackers
100

Troops

11 Fire Warriors - Pulse Rifles
+ Shas'ui - Pulse Rifle, Markerlight + Hard Wired Target Lock
145

10 Fire Warriors - Pulse Rifles
100
+ Devilfish APC - Burst Cannon, 2 Gun Drones, Flechette Dischargers + Disruption Pod
95

13 Kroot Warriors - Kroot Rifles
+ 5 Kroot Hounds - Teeth
121

13 Kroot Warriors - Kroot Rifles
91

10 Kroot Warriors - Kroot Rifles
70

10 Fire Warriors - Pulse Rifles
100

Fast Attack

6 Pathfinders - Pulse Carbines w. Markerlights
72
+ Devilfish APC - Burst Cannon, 2 Gun Drones, Beacon, Flechette Dischargers + Disruption Pod
95

Tetra Scout Speeder - Twin Linked Pulse Rifle, Markerlight, Disruption Pod + Targetting Array
55

Heavy Support

2 Broadside Suits - Twin Linked Railguns, Smart Missile Systems, Advanced Stabilisation Systems, Team Leader w. Hard Wired Target Lock, Hard Wired Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones
200

Hammerhead Gunship - Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons, Targetting Array, Multi Tracker + Disruption Pod
165

Does the tournament allow Forgeworld/IA? Otherwise no Tetras for you, which is sad as they're great models.

I don't know how good the dual-flamer suits will be. They're cheap, but I can't imagine they'll do that much damage before dying. I'd much prefer TLMP and a flamer, so you can actually do reliable damage at a distance. I also am not sure if you really need the BCs on the suits. I've seen the math, but things like fusion guns and plasma rifles are just such a niche-filler for the Tau army and S5 shooting can be had in many places.

I might consider dropping the HWTL off the Broadsides - I think you might need both shots to take down tough tanks. Playtest it!

tzeentchling wrote:Does the tournament allow Forgeworld/IA? Otherwise no Tetras for you, which is sad as they're great models.

I don't know how good the dual-flamer suits will be. They're cheap, but I can't imagine they'll do that much damage before dying. I'd much prefer TLMP and a flamer, so you can actually do reliable damage at a distance. I also am not sure if you really need the BCs on the suits. I've seen the math, but things like fusion guns and plasma rifles are just such a niche-filler for the Tau army and S5 shooting can be had in many places.

I might consider dropping the HWTL off the Broadsides - I think you might need both shots to take down tough tanks. Playtest it!

Yep the tourney allows Forgeworld.

I really like the dual flamer suits. They are really quite useful and deadly. Im not keen on the TLMP as the flamer [more than likely] will only fire once, so it will need to count. For 2pts per model it is pretty cost effective. The Opportunity cost for the TLMP feels worth it.

I have also seen the math, so i have added a unit w. BC. I suspect you are right. The Suits are the special weaps of the army, st 5 shots are easy to come by, but plasma is niche. How many Fireknives do you run??

Ooh no TL on the Broadsides... i had not considered that. I will have to play test! Thanks for the input.

Depends, usually at least 4 fireknives. In a tournament situation, it's nice to have the reliability and versatility. The third slot varies between TLMP suits, fusion suits, and stealths. I'd also consider taking some gun drones with the suits, to help absorb nasty shots.

Also, does the Tetra need disruption pods? It's cheap, and can hide behind terrain. You don't get saves from markerlights anyway, so it doesn't affect your shots. It's cheap, but points are points. Same with the Flamer on the Shas'el, three weapons aren't really that useful. I'd usually rather fire the AFP and MP than the Flamer and AFP or MP. I dunno, if they're that close you're in serious trouble anyway.

tzeentchling wrote:Depends, usually at least 4 fireknives. In a tournament situation, it's nice to have the reliability and versatility. The third slot varies between TLMP suits, fusion suits, and stealths. I'd also consider taking some gun drones with the suits, to help absorb nasty shots.

Also, does the Tetra need disruption pods? It's cheap, and can hide behind terrain. You don't get saves from markerlights anyway, so it doesn't affect your shots. It's cheap, but points are points. Same with the Flamer on the Shas'el, three weapons aren't really that useful. I'd usually rather fire the AFP and MP than the Flamer and AFP or MP. I dunno, if they're that close you're in serious trouble anyway.

Hrmm, 4 Fireknives is great but it still costs 24pts more than the equivalent Firestorm unit, I see 4 Kroot hounds or 2 Pathfinders for that cost. I may change my tune after further playtesting but the Mathhammer for Firestorms seems pretty conclusive, esp. in 5th and its abundance of coversaves...

The Tetra comes with Disruption pods as part of the cost! Brilliant.

The Shas'el's flamer may not go off every game, but for 4pts extra how can you not!?! If it kills a single model it has re-couped the cost. If you are that close you may be in serious trouble. But there are occasions when it works, eg: after that Ork unit has decimated your throwaway Kroot unit. With the ability to sweeping advance into fresh enemy gone, there is opportunity for Flamers w. Tau these days....