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So having seen the Total Fail that is the gameplay in Apocalypse, I wondered whether using Epic might be a better way to proceed for a large scale battle at 28mm.

Obviously all distances/ranges would have to be multiplied by five, but that is no problem as it is easy to convert "cm" to "inches" and keep the numbers the same. Infantry models could be grouped in fives using CDs as movement trays... and that's probably about it.

Other than the usual issues around having enough models/terrain apply of course - but they would really be no different to Apocalypse, and so aren't necessarily an obstacle. - just a case of money and time really.

I love and play E:A at 6mm scale and have played it now for a couple of years. I like 5th edition 40k too, but it is more "beer and pretzels" rather than the "proper tactical wargame" that E:A can be. So I just started pondering,,,

Have I missed something? Could it really be as simple as that?

I don't see what is so fail about apoc

So how much space can you practically play on.

My main gripe with Apocalypse is table dimension.
5000pts with war machines should be played on a table that's around 10'L x 6'D
28mm Epic would require an even larger table

- just my thoughts

While I fail to see how Apocalypse is a total fail(I prefer it over normal 40K and tend to find it much more fun), this could be an interesting idea.

Also, Epicast? once made x5 bases when they were making titans.
You may be able to hunt those down as well

Sorry, reading my post back I appreciate it comes out rather harsh against Apoc. I didn't intend to denegrate what for many is an enjoyable experience.

I retract the term "Total Fail", and substitute the phrase "less-than-strategic wargame" instead. All the while I appreciate a lot of people can find it a lot of fun and enjoy the whole anarchic "bung everything on the table and have a blast" side of things, but I would prefer a more strategic game, which could be completed by two people in an evening, while still using large war engines, aeroplanes, Titans etc., and big troop formations.

Thinking back over the last few games of E:A I have played, I really think the only issues will be basing of infantry and bikes (which can be solved with simple movement trays scaled up by x5 from the dimensions preferred in E:A - which isn't that prescriptive anyhow, so maybe existing 40k coherency rules might suffice) and the scaling up of blast templates - which can be solved with either using an Apoc pie plate, or just making a homemade one with a compass! Heh! For orbital bombardment I could use a dustbin lid!!

Of course you need a big table, but you need that for Apoc too, and its not necessarily a problem - just a case of finding a large enough venue (my local village hall would do) and spreading several green blankets over the floor. Anything more in terms of sculpted boardswould be nice, but ultimately just gravy! And in any case, you can crawl over blankets on the floor to reach models in the middle of the setup which you can't do with a (say) 20' square table, so in many ways its the most sensible option.

Is there anything else I've missed that you can think of? Those Epicast bases sound fun, although I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on the project as a) I will need to save as much money for actual models as possible (I have nowhere near enough models at the moment), and b) its not going to happen very often, and may never come off, so sinking a lot of cash into the project is a bit risky. One thing I'm looking for is when GW release the new War of the Ring game in a couple of months, those plastic movement trays may come in handy and they aren't particularly pricey.

Osbad, have you checked out Siege World? They use modified Apoc rules and require movement trays for units. I know this year they are holding it inside an un-iced hockey rink.

I'm not too clear on all the Siege World rules, but you can check them out here.

No offence is meant to Osbad in this post

I don't know about you, but I would rather start a turn asking if anyone wanted some beer (the fun wargaming method) than Planning how my inanimate plastic/metal/resin if you're rich legions could perform a deadly flanking maneuvre

P4NC4K3 wrote:I don't know about you, but I would rather start a turn asking if anyone wanted some beer (the fun wargaming method) than Planning how my inanimate plastic/metal/resin if you're rich legions could perform a deadly flanking maneuvre

I don't see any reason why you can't do both.

Beer kinda blunts your tactical skills if you know what I mean

P4NC4K3 wrote:Beer kinda blunts your tactical skills if you know what I mean

Well hey, I'm always up for a challenge!

i dunno, i think i would keep epic in its small scale.

APOC rocks IMO, i love it, then again i have 2 armies with over 10,000 points of painted models with titans in each. 40k in general is a dice chucking game, APOC is just a hoot.

I can remember back in the day when we would run 28mm scale Epic 2nd edition games in the back of my store. Roll out the green carpet, bring out the 3 foot tall buildings, and then let the blasting begin...

See, THAT'S the problem of Apocolypse. It's not the rules, it's the fact that players try to squeeze it onto a 6'x4' board. The rules are fine, but since when would a titan wait till it was in extreme close range for its main armaments before opening up?

The best Apoc battles I've heard about are the ones that happen in a huge floorspace of at least 12'x8". Even that's too small really, if you want to talk about preferred engagement ranges of armies like Tau and Imperial Guard. Why would Guard roll up to spitting range when they can set up Artillery Batteries in the hills and pound the ground from miles around?

GeneralRetreat wrote: Why would Guard roll up to spitting range when they can set up Artillery Batteries in the hills and pound the ground from miles around?

Oh yeah, Regimental Commissars. Natch.

Sorry for the bump, but what is E:A?

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm slow - Epic: Armageddon of course.

Something you might consider doing is making 40k army lists for Epic: Armageddon.

Basically like have Tactical Marines represent Space Marine tactical squads, and so on.

I'll start a thread in the Proposed Rules section, if anyone is interested.

I guess the main reason to try this would be if a person did not own the Epic models. But yes, Epic uses bases for multiple guys and so for a 28mm game, you would need bases. WOTR has bases that might be useful to you.

Seems something like a gymnasium would work well for these games...take something the size of a full basketball court. However, you will need to find someone with a bunch of time and a good size truck to make and transport all the terrain you will need.


ive also heard of people using b ball courts for games such as BFG and FUll Thrust...allows weapon ranges to be in scale with the ships...or use of really huge ship models.

The problem with playing Epic in 28mm (and I've tried) is Epic's ranges.

Your most practical analog for ranges in Epic vs. 40k is the Missile Launcher. It has a 48" range in 40k and a 45cm range in Epic. To retain the same scope, your quickest conversion is to simply retain all speeds and ranges in Epic and replace the units of measurement with inches.

Here's where that becomes problematic; that will require an immense surface to play on. Even Infantry, the slowest moving unit type in the game can clear 45 inches per turn with a March order. Landspeeders or other skimmers can go 90 inches a turn. Flyers can move an UNLIMITED distance per turn, with a 45 degree turn per 30 inches.

It can be done (and without too much difficulty really). The issue is more to do with what you're looking to get out of it.

For two players to enjoy a tactical game in an evening... stick to epic in 6mm! It's a fantastic game and quick to put up and tear down. Setting up a whole basement will take a whole day. Just moving all that stuff will take forever. What you're asking can be be done... but I don't think it will get you what you're looking for. Epic was designed with exactly what you're asking in mind... play a huge sweeping battle in a reasonable amount of time by making the guys smaller instead of the table bigger. What's wrong with that?

Exactly. The whole point of Epic is being able to play with real armies in a realistic amount of time on a realistic amount of space.