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I was talking with a friend about the advantages and disadvantages of Ork Slugga Boys Vs. Ork Shoota Boys and my friend claimed that point for point Shoota Boys are the best shooting unit in the game using mathhammer. The fact that they are Assault 2 18" and only Cost 6 pts allows them to be extremely mobile, and their pts cost allows them get cover saves fairly easily and don't forget they are Orks and still are good in CC.

Lootas beat the snot out of them.

Lootas for the win.

Sniper shooting unit : Pathfinder rangers..

Shooting unit: Pink horrors (worth a lil under 3 boys.. but work well vanillia, boys do not).4+inv,fearless, bs 3, str4 ap 4 assault 3 18", deepstrike as standard. 10pts = str 8 ap 1 assault 1 shot in addition.

But granted.. units in specific combinations (rather than x times model A) marines with las/plas, guardains and scatter lasers or.. i dunno, ork boys and rokkits/big shootas/nobz/bosspoll etc.

Razerous wrote:Sniper shooting unit : Pathfinder rangers..

Shooting unit: Pink horrors (worth a lil under 3 boys.. but work well vanillia, boys do not).4+inv,fearless, bs 3, str4 ap 4 assault 3 18", deepstrike as standard. 10pts = str 8 ap 1 assault 1 shot in addition.

But granted.. units in specific combinations (rather than x times model A) marines with las/plas, guardains and scatter lasers or.. i dunno, ork boys and rokkits/big shootas/nobz/bosspoll etc.

Actually, boys are better point for point in shooting then Pink horrors, and thanks to the cover saves and and higher toughness, are more survivable then horrors in many cases. Not to mention they are good in close combat.

Actually ork boys are even better then marines in shooting point for point. For the price of two marines you get five boys. My battlewagon list can easily wipe a unit of marines/termies a turn.

Remember though, they aren't super godly. The shoota boy is the best all around unit point for point, but will die horribly if you never give them support.

For light fire, shoota boyz.

For medium/medium heavy fire, Lootaz.

For heavy fire... I dunno... probably something like an obliterator, being able to use every weapon under the sun and all.

Against what? And at what range?

As a "unit" I would have to say lootaz...15 of them. Nothing else has the ability to put out that much firepower at that strength. Their pts tag is also very attractive.

Actually if you take 15 Lootas 48" away and they avg 2 shots each against the same abount of pts of boys 37 boys and give the boys a 5+ cover save say from a big mek. And give the Lootas a 4+ cover save from cover. The Boys running until they get in range should finish the lootas off with a charge, its close but boys win out in the end

Phryxis wrote:Against what? And at what range?

If we want a useful answer, we need to ask these questions. Each weapon in 40k kills some targets more efficiently than others. Asking which shooting unit is most efficient point-for-point won't get any good answers because units perform radically different roles on the battlefield. As good as Shoota Boyz are, you can't shoot them at the same targets that, say, Tankbustas normally shoot at and say that Tankbustas are more efficient point-for-point! If we want the best answer, we should divide them into categories of targets and ranges.

Since that sounds like more work than most of us want to do on a forum, though (), I'll just say Eldar Fire Dragons. Getting a meltagun on every sixteen point model is a deal that's too good to pass up! Toss in an Exarch with a twin-linked heavy flamer and you've even got some anti-infantry versatility for a low price.

Actually if you take 15 Lootas 48" away and they avg 2 shots each against the same abount of pts of boys 37 boys and give the boys a 5+ cover save say from a big mek. And give the Lootas a 4+ cover save from cover. The Boys running until they get in range should finish the lootas off with a charge, its close but boys win out in the end

But all those shoota boyz without a rokkit or two can't knock out anything higher than AV 10. (though admittedly S7 can't beat AV 14 it has a much higher range of usefullness.)

for straight S4 AP5 goodness, dire avengers with no upgrades are AS GOOD as shootaboys (2 shots at 18", but will hit twice as often, for double the price). over a single round of shooting, the dire avengers with exarch and bladestorm put out significantly more shooting that the shootaboys on a pt per pt basis, and taken in consideration with the list as a whole, you can also safely figure in Doom on the target unit, effetively increasing the unit's shooting half-again. Over several turns, Bladestorming is weaker than not using the power, but being able to front-load the damage is a great option to have.

10 dire avengers VS 20 boys..

Opinions people?

Waaaaagh wrote:Actually if you take 15 Lootas 48" away and they avg 2 shots each against the same abount of pts of boys 37 boys and give the boys a 5+ cover save say from a big mek. And give the Lootas a 4+ cover save from cover. The Boys running until they get in range should finish the lootas off with a charge, its close but boys win out in the end

How are your shootas gonna get to the lootas? I guess the opponents army is going to move out of the way and let you through... ... A big mek isn't a shooter so he isn't part of the equation. Take away that cover save and lootas smash the boyz. If you go adding support then it isn't about the shooty unit but the overall build tactics of a list. Lootas castle up and shoot, It is what they do, so they will have the cover save.

Barring Burnaboyz in a Wagon which is just crazy. My vote goes to....

Dakka tyrant!
121 points (BS4, Str6)
12 shots, 10.66 hit, 10.13 wound vs. T4

Equivalent points in:
lootas 4.39 wounds
shoota boyz 6.66 wounds
horros 5.25 wounds
Sternguard 5.5 with 2+ wound rounds, rapidfire
Firewarriors 8 wounds, rapidfire

Tyrant wins! Most close range fire exchanges between models with a T value will go to the tyrant (Sternguard take-over at T7+). If you prioritize long-range firepower, lootas take-over.

3 Warwalkers with scatter lasers guided by a Farseer.

wuestenfux wrote:3 Warwalkers with scatter lasers guided by a Farseer.

Is 255 points total (walkers + farseer + guide)
24 shots, 18 hits (with guide), 15 wounds to T4

7.5 per cost of a Dakka tyrant though. Dakka tyrant wins!

The warwalkers do outperform Lootas for wounds though, but underperform compared to Loota anti-light vehicle.

Barring Burnaboyz in a Wagon which is just crazy. My vote goes to....

Dakka tyrant!

Damn you beat me to it. Dakka tyrant woulda been my overall choice as well but I like mobile shooting whereever possible (one reason lootas while awesome are not my cup of tea).

Although using the barebones one I dunno if it has the durability of equal points in other options like shootas (due to cover, KFF etc). Give em tyrant guard and that gets better but that costs points for no increase in shooting. Still gets my vote though.

Unfortunately this isn't a question mathhammer can answer due to it being too vague. Coming up with a "best units in the game point for point" isn't possible unless you really restrict the situation. Sure all the units listed so far are good shooting units, but there are restrictions on them one way or another. Shoota boys are worthless from 30" away. Lootas are not going to do anything to a land raider and neither will the dakka tyrant (till it gets into hand to hand at least). So in addition to mentioning that you want a shooting uint, you are also going to have to come up with a target for said shooting unit. If you want to down land raiders, you are going to need a much different unit than one you would be using to kill terminators or orc boys. In addition you have to consider battle field situations. Sure shoota boys are a great shooting unit, but their lack of range means they will lose an equal point fight to war walkers or lootas every time because they simply can't weather the casualties they take while trying to close the gap from their deployment positions.