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Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





South Carolina

Ok so I'm still working on running my orks list and I have read the comparison between shoota/slugga boyz. However my question is can they be used in unison to deal decent amouts of damage or should I make all my boyz one or the other.

My current troops
Nobz, Gretchin, 12 'Ardboyz in a Trukk (other stuff in army so it wont be by itself)

Therefore I have 3 troops spots left

I was thinking 2 things of shoota boyz (20) and 1 large squad of slugga boyz (20+).

The strategy is to run the grots as a screen or as objective holders (depending on mission), the shootaboyz will blaze away at whatever unit the slugga's will charge, the 2 shoota squads will then get to krumping as well. (the manditory KFF goes with slugga's)

I have been thinking this tatic might work bc in my proxied lists I have only ever run slugga boyz...

"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sence, we couldn't react to a lot of life." - Calvin and Hobbes

DukeRustfield - There's nothing wrong with beer and pretzels. I'm pretty sure they are the most important members of the food group. 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Drop the 'ardboyz, not worth the points.

Anyways a fairly normal ratio of sluggas to shootas is 2:1
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





Vermont

I like to run a full squad of shoota boyz with 3 big shootas and then a full squad of slug&choppa boyz for that extra CC attack

 
   
Made in ve
Flashy Flashgitz





All shootas on foot. All sluggas on transport. I don't like running sluggas on foot, difficult terrain f***s things up and run isn't always reliable. I know my shootas will always do damage or aren't useless while taking objectives.

"Because Dakka and More Dakka are the answers to everything in life" 
   
Made in us
Deacon






Tipp City

I use a horde that has 3x30 sluggas in front of 3x30 shootas. I find that the mix is nice since the HTH ork are taking the brunt of the carnage leaving the shootas intact.

Plus 90+ massed shots against a single target yields a significant amounts of wounds.


Press Ganger for Dayton, OH area. PM for Demos

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Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prophet of Dakka wrote:All shootas on foot. All sluggas on transport. I don't like running sluggas on foot, difficult terrain f***s things up and run isn't always reliable. I know my shootas will always do damage or aren't useless while taking objectives.


QFT

The only time I run sluggas anymore is in a BW or trukk. The only time the shootas assualt anything is after the enemy is whittled down to almost nothing and/or I need to take an objective. Shoot anything that moves with lootas and shootas, mob up with the nobs.

If you have the spare points, 'Ard boyz are worthwhile just because they get a 4+ save when their transport dies. But with a mob of 12, that's 48 points you could spend on something that's probably more useful - like 8 more shoota boyz. Or most of a grot unit to stand in front of your shootas and die. Or a rokkit buggy. Or a couple of big gunz. Pretty much anything else is more useful if you have the models and space on the FOC to use it.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





St. Louis, MO

Fafnir wrote:Drop the 'ardboyz, not worth the points.


What?
I totally disagree.

'Ard boys are a MUST.

I like:
11 & Nob in trukk
18 & Nob & Mad Dok Grotsnik in a battlewagon

'Ard Boys are HtH troops. They should be Choppa/Slugga.

Personally, as Orks are better fighters than shooters, I ALWAYS take choppa/slugga for the extra HtH attack.


Eric

Black Fiend wrote: Okay all the ChapterHouse Nazis to the right!! All the GW apologists to the far left. LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!
The Green Git wrote: I'd like to cross section them and see if they have TFG rings, but that's probably illegal.
Polonius wrote: You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.
Greebynog wrote:Us brits have a sense of fair play and propriety that you colonial savages can only dream of.
Stelek wrote: I know you're afraid. I want you to be. Because you should be. I've got the humiliation wagon all set up for you to take a ride back to suck city.
Quote: LunaHound--- Why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?
I just can't stand it when people have fun the wrong way. - Chongara
I do believe that the GW "moneysheep" is a dying breed, despite their bleats to the contrary. - AesSedai
You are a thief and a predator of the wargaming community, and i'll be damned if anyone says differently ever again on my watch in these forums. -MajorTom11 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Orks in trukks rampaging up the field to get into assault should be choppa/slugga. They'll be in assault turn2.

Orks running across the field to get to the fight should be shootas. You add range, attacks, and violence.

There should always be a powerklaw in your units - its invaluable.

'Ard Boyz are freaking awesome. Attaching Mad Dok Grotsnik to a unit of 'Ard Boyz makes them unfair. Having this unit advance through cover makes them brokenly unfair. Putting this unit in a battlewagon (18 'Ard Boyz, 1 Nob with powerklaw/bosspole, Mad Dok) makes them grotesque.

You can use that unit as screeners instead of Grots if you wish. There's a billion different combinations, and they're all effective.

   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade




Lafayette, IN

I have a large list that is KOS. I had been using 2 kff meks in it. I switched it to 1 mek and the dok in a wagon full of 'ard boyz and just wow. I have a wagon of nobs as well and it makes it about half the time. The 'ard boys get there and they are dead killy. I also cybork my kommando squad and snikrot and they are doubly nasty.
   
Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol






The eye of terror.

Sluggas on foot can serve two very important purposes:

As a screening unit for shootas behind them or as a counter-charge unit for shootas in front of them.

A canny opponent is going to try to charge shootas because combat resolution can lead to a unit being wiped out pretty easily.

If you're forced to charge sluggas first, the sheer number of attacks (even on the defense) coupled with the klaw nob ensures that the assaulting unit is very likely to be crippled by the assault, and even *if* the shootas lose, they're not as likely to lose as many orks from No Retreat!

If you have a big mob of sluggas as a counter-charge unit, whichever unit charged your shootas is going to die, and it's that simple.

Why did the berzerker cross the road?
Gwar! wrote:Willydstyle has it correct
Gwar! wrote:Yup you're absolutely right

New to the game and can't win? Read this.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Ultimately, what troop choices you take are going to have to be dictated by what kind of army you want to make.

If you're dead set on 12 'Ard Boyz in a trukk....

Why not add 3-4 more trukks full of Trukk boyz? Add a Warboss or Ghazghkull and add a troops choice of Nobs, equipped differently.

My "balanced" 1850 list is this:

HQ1: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ2: Mad Dok Grotsnik

Troop 1: Nobs (all equipped differently, all with 'Eavy armor) - inside a battlewagon with Ghazghkull
Troop 2: 11 'Ard Boyz (and Mad Dok)
Troop 3: 12 Trukk Boyz
Troop 4: 12 Trukk Boyz

Elite 1: Snikrot+14 Kommandos (2 of which are burnas)
---------------------------
Now....I use my battlewagon to screen my trukks for cover saves, or I use my trukks to obstruct side armor shots on my battlewagon. I generally lose a trukk or two, or sometimes the wagon, but turn 2...someone IS getting assaulted. My army has a 27" assault reach, and by turn2, that covers the whole board. Add in Snikrot, and your shooty armies are going to be doing some very weird deployment things trying to keep him from assaulting their most valuable units.



   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





South Carolina

Thats where I'm sort of stuck Dashofpepper, there are so many option in the ork dex for effective lists (like all dex's should be), I'm cant make up my mind. I'm doing a Freebooters themed army, the only thing I was set on was 1 large squad of grots, stormboyz, Kommandos. The generic tatic I came up with was using stormboyz and kommanos in unison to cause some panic (the trukk was either a screen for the stormboyz or they would be for the ard boyz)

Currently I own:

31 Choppa/Slugga
5 Big Shootas
10 Stormboyz
20 Grotz (2 Runethreds)
10 Nobz (AoBR + Box)
1 Warboss
1 KFF Mek
Sinkrot
Box of Kommandos + Burna
3 Deffkoptas
1 Warbuggie
1 Painboy

"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sence, we couldn't react to a lot of life." - Calvin and Hobbes

DukeRustfield - There's nothing wrong with beer and pretzels. I'm pretty sure they are the most important members of the food group. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

For fluff reasons a Freebooter army might be fun. Pointwise and effectiveness; Badruk, Flash Gitz, and Snazguns in general are a terrible waste.

If you meant something else, my apologies.

In your shoes, with what you've listed, here's what I would do (keep in mind that GW supports "counts as" when you're missing models:

HQs: You only have two right now; a Warboss and a Mek. Give that Warboss 'Eavy armour or Mega-armour. Either way, make sure he has a powerklaw and an attack squig. (experiment), OR say that he counts as Ghazghkull Thraka (that's what I would do). The Mek and KFF have a place, but not in what I'm making here.

Troop1: Those 10 nobs are a troops choice with a warboss or Ghazghkull. Even if you don't have the bits, mark them differently so you can tell them apart, which is good enough for most games. I magnetize a lot of stuff, and that's what I use: I cut apart some rokkit launcha arms to get the rokkit out and I stick that on a Nob base when I want to show that he has a kombi-rokkit. I have Tau flamers I stick on a base to show that he has a kombi-scorcha. I have some Warbiker "Nob arms" that I use to show big choppas. If the following list doesn't work, alter it as you will, but make sure that all 10 Nobs are different.

1. Nob Painboy (YOU MUST HAVE THIS); optional orderly (use a grot)
2. Waaugh! Banner (essential): I glued a bosspole to the middle of a Black Reach Nob's back to show a Waaugh! Banner.
3. Bosspole: I drilled a hole in the hip canister of a black reach nob and glued in a bosspole to show a bosspole here.
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw / Ammo runt (I bought a box of fantasy orks for bits, and I use the shield emblems magnetized on nob bases to show where the ammo runts are.
6. Powerklaw / Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big choppa / Ammo runt (ammo runts are the cheapest way to show different Nobs)
9. Skorcha
10. Normal Nob

There's no rokkits in there right now because you'll rarely want to send your Nobs against vehicles - they'll be sitting out in the open and get shot to pieces the next turn, and you have to assault what you shoot at. If you ever DO put a rokkit on someone, give them an ammo runt too, so its a one-shot twin-linked.

Give your Nobs 'Eavy armour. Now they are all 4+ armour, 4+ feel no pain, and you can take 10 wounds without losing a single model. Attach your Warboss (Ghazghkull) to this unit.

You mentioned a trukk, but didn't put one in your list of things you have - if you have one, stick this unit into the trukk. If you don't have a trukk, use your warbuggie to proxy a trukk. If its the ONLY trukk you're going to have, keep it out of lanes of fire, keep it in cover, because you want your Nobs and Ghazghkull/Warboss to make it to the fight. The THEME of this army is to make your opponent decide which is more dangerous: Nobs+Warboss or everything else. They will have to focus fire on one of them, and the other will kill them.

Troop 2: 30 Choppa/Slugga: use them as Counts as and make them shootas. If they're footing it across the table, make them have some firepower on the go. Put in a Nob with a powerklaw and a bosspole. Honestly....I would use your Mek with the KFF and say "Counts as Mad Dok Grotsnik." This entire troop choice of 30 boyz now has Feel No Pain. You may additionally want to use this mob (since you only have enough Orks for one right now) as your mob of 'Ard Boyz. You now have 4+ armor, 4+ Feel no Pain.

Troop 3: 19 Gretchin, 1 Runtherder. You need 1 Runtherder per 10 Gretchin, and since you only have 20 even, take one off and save yourself 13 points. I usually do 19+1 or 29+2.

Elite1: Snikrot + 14 Kommandos. If you don't have enough models, proxy something in for them. I have regular ork boyz as kommandos, I just gave them all a special pant job and I gave them a slugga and a dagger to act as a choppa; I got the daggers from the box of fantasy orks. Burnas are absolutely wonderful - I take two whenever I take kommandos. Get one more if you can, or proxy one. If you have some cash, get a box of Lootas / Burnas, and scavenge out of it for the bodies and other burna. You'll use most of the stuff in that box. Snikrot can come on any table edge, gets 3D6 through cover, and if you have Ghazghkull in your army, and Waaugh! the turn that Snikrot comes out, you have potentially a 18" assault range from any table edge. He's NASTY.

Fast Attack1: Vulture Boyz. If I count right, you used 9 Nobs + Painboy for one troop choice, and the 10th Nob as the Nob for your 30 boyz. Use ANY model here...use your extra runtherder and call him Zagstruk. Stick in your 10 Stormboyz and your 5 Big Shootas (counts as stormboyz) and you have 15 Stormboyz + Zagstruk, and they can assault from their deepstrike. Snikrot and Zagstruk go GREAT together. If you have any spare models, add them to this unit until you have 20.

Fast Attack 2: 1 Deffkopta - You're weak on anti-tank, so I'd give this one twin-linked rokkits and a big bomb. This Deff-kopta will outflank and try getting some rear armour shots on enemy tanks.

Fast Attack 3: 2 DeffKoptas - Same thing. Alternatively, you can try drawing fire away from your trukk with these two. You have a 3+ cover save when you turbo-boost, toughness 5, and a 4+ armour save (2 wounds).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That utilizes pretty much everything you have. If its too many points for the game, drop the Deffkoptas first. If you need more, drop the gretchin ('Ard Boyz can screen if you have to), after that, drop Zagstruk, and then start paring down from there if the need should arise but...it shouldn't.

The army list I just made gives you several high-threat targets. Your Nobs+HQ can eat ANYTHING that ANY opponent fields. Your kommandos can eat pretty much anything. So can Zagstruk and the stormboyz. Your 'Ard Boyz are nigh impossible to kill in any significant numbers and there's a hidden powerklaw in there that can eat anything too.

If you have spare money, or in the future, here's what I'd focus on:

1. More Boyz - you need more models. Check e-bay or the forums, or your FLGS or whatever and see if there are any great deals. You can call anything "as-is" but you need the models to do so.

2. Trukks: If you have trukks, you need less models. 12 Boyz per trukk; 1850 points (with Snikrot) is pretty much 3-4 trukks full of boyz, that's 48 models in trukks (plus other stuff like Kommandos). Personally, I currently own 2 trukks and 1 battlewagon. When I'm playing games at my FLGS, I borrow the store's display stuff (rhinos etc) and call them trukks. If you're a regular customer somewhere, it won't be an issue. Otherwise, get a couple more trukks.

3. Battlewagon: There is nothing more intimidating in an Ork army than Ghazghkull Thraka, 10 independently equipped Nobs inside a Battlewagon with a Deff Rolla and a a Killakannon. You have a template MEQ killer, and a front armor 14 transport to get death and destruction to the front lines. There is nothing anywhere in 40k that can stand up to Ghazghkull + that unit of nobs on the charge during a Waaaugh! And for the people trying to focus on the battlewagon, keep a trukk in front of it, position it carefully, use cover advantageously...whatever you have to do to make sure that it will get cover saves and that they can't shoot your side / rear. A battlewagon (or any trukk) on the Waaugh! has a 27" assault range. Its lethal.

4. Filling out your units: Worry about this last, you can proxy and "counts as" as much as you need. Another burna, some more stormboyz, some Lootas...whatever you like. Personally....I believe that orks have enough dakka and killy that Big Shootas are a waste in a unit; I tend to lump my big shootas (I've been through 4 AoBR boxes) together and call it a unit of Lootas if I do anything.

Remember...the Ork Codex gives you almost unlimited leeway to do whatever you want. A Loota isn't a specific model: Its just the biggest gun that the Ork could find. Trukks are ramshackle contraptions designed to get Orks into combat as fast as possible. You can use almost anything to proxy anything in an Ork army, and it fits the fluff.

There's my two cents; hope to see what you try.



*EDIT* And remember: Gretchin in cover holding an objective go to ground and get 3+ cover saves. They're hard to uproot.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/06 16:12:50


   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade




Lafayette, IN

Some good advice up there and some bad advice.
Those deff koptas are 2 easy killpoints. Bomms are way too expensive for what you get.
Lootas are rarely ever a bad choice and they pop light armor easily.
In a nob mob, I take a number of shoota skorchas. That template love is handy to have.

After trial and error, the most survivable and devastating warboss build I have found is powerklaw, shoota skorcha kombi, attack squig, cybork, eavy armor. I almost always get the cybork and armor points back in saves they create.
Attach him to these nobs:
Painboy with orderly, cybork
Powerklaw, cybork
Powerklaw skorcha kombi, cybork
Powerklaw bosspole, cybork
Waaagh! banner, cybork
skorcha, cybork
Big choppa, cybork
Big choppa, skorcha, cybork
Big choppa, ammo runt, cybork
Nob, cybork



   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





St. Louis, MO

Troop 3: 19 Gretchin, 1 Runtherder. You need 1 Runtherder per 10 Gretchin, and since you only have 20 even, take one off and save yourself 13 points. I usually do 19+1 or 29+2.


WITHOUT GIVING MY PRESONAL OPINION...

Keep in min that not everyone agrees that this is the right way to do it. Some see it as 1 per 10 OR FRACTION THEREOF.
To my best knowledge, there's no FAQ on this.

Please, guys... Lets not argue whether or not it's legit... I'm just warning him that there ARE people out there who will have a problem with it, if you take grots like this.

Eric

Black Fiend wrote: Okay all the ChapterHouse Nazis to the right!! All the GW apologists to the far left. LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!
The Green Git wrote: I'd like to cross section them and see if they have TFG rings, but that's probably illegal.
Polonius wrote: You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.
Greebynog wrote:Us brits have a sense of fair play and propriety that you colonial savages can only dream of.
Stelek wrote: I know you're afraid. I want you to be. Because you should be. I've got the humiliation wagon all set up for you to take a ride back to suck city.
Quote: LunaHound--- Why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?
I just can't stand it when people have fun the wrong way. - Chongara
I do believe that the GW "moneysheep" is a dying breed, despite their bleats to the contrary. - AesSedai
You are a thief and a predator of the wargaming community, and i'll be damned if anyone says differently ever again on my watch in these forums. -MajorTom11 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Cybork bodies....personal preference. Personally, I don't roll nearly enough 5s to justify taking them. Things that can instant kill my nobs, I get a 4+ cover save against because of how I play on the battlefield, and in close combat if there's a unit of absolute nastiness with power weapons and powerfists that would shred my nobs, I find a different target for them.

My Nobs start in a trukk. They can't be shot. One of two things happen: My nobs make it into close combat, or their trukk gets shot out from under them. If the latter happens, its almost always an explodes result (it happens with open topped) and craters are a 4+ cover save. I move from cover to cover into assault.

For me then, the only time a 5+ invulnerable *really* ever comes into the picture is when I'm in close combat and its just not justified when I always have a better save available. I much prefer the 4+ armour, 4+ Feel No Pain, 4+ cover save of how I play.

As for DeffKoptas and killpoints - most games where I play Ork, I table my opponent. With the lack of trukks and armour he has, DeffKoptas aren't going to be more than a speedbump. However, if someone is willing to shoot at his DeffKopta with a whole unit of somethings, that's ok in my book - those are unit(s) that aren't shooting at the important things in his army.

Casper, those Deffkoptas also make good disposable assault units against armies weak in CC. If you roll to deploy and go first, your Deffkoptas with their scout move can be in assault on turn 1 - you get a 12" scout move, then another 12" move on turn 1 + a 6" asault. That's a 30" assault range if you go first. A deffkopta alone can very likely tie up a unit of firewarriors in close combat, or imperial guard. They have their uses. And those big-bombs - If you're fighting the same Tau or Imperial Guard, those big bombs are going to wipe vast swaths through your enemies. Not so much against tougher armies though - your call.

   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





St. Louis, MO

To add to your Deff Kopta thoughts... they can even turbo Boost on their scout move, as long as they end 12" away from enemy models.

Eric

Black Fiend wrote: Okay all the ChapterHouse Nazis to the right!! All the GW apologists to the far left. LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!
The Green Git wrote: I'd like to cross section them and see if they have TFG rings, but that's probably illegal.
Polonius wrote: You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.
Greebynog wrote:Us brits have a sense of fair play and propriety that you colonial savages can only dream of.
Stelek wrote: I know you're afraid. I want you to be. Because you should be. I've got the humiliation wagon all set up for you to take a ride back to suck city.
Quote: LunaHound--- Why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?
I just can't stand it when people have fun the wrong way. - Chongara
I do believe that the GW "moneysheep" is a dying breed, despite their bleats to the contrary. - AesSedai
You are a thief and a predator of the wargaming community, and i'll be damned if anyone says differently ever again on my watch in these forums. -MajorTom11 
   
 
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