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Now, though I have never tried this...

Is it possible for a model with the Slow and Purposeful rule allowed to fire from access points in a transport vehicle if it had moved more than 6"? I know that units cannot fire from access points if they've moved more than Six inches, but since the Slow and Purposeful rule states that a unit can fire heavy weapons as if it had never moved at all (and it doesn't state wether this movement is by foot or by transport), I would think that by a big stretch of the rules, you could technically fire heavy weapons out of access points if you moved the full range of the transport.

I know I would probably be construed as a TFG if I tried to pull this crap, and I wouldn't, but I thought it was a bit of a hilarious loophole that could be exploited.

A model may not fire from a firepoint if the vehicle moved at cruising speed (or faster) that turn.

Otherwise it counts as moving if the vehicle moved that turn..

So yes, you could. What do you have in mind? There arent that many options of slow & purposeful units that can fit inside a transport that has firepoints.

The only example I can think of are Legion of the Damned.. but they have to come in via deep-strike so you would be picking them up mid game.

I wouldnt say its a loop-hole but then again, I wouldnt say its that useful.

Well....if only Devilfish had firing points.

Broadside Battlesuits have twin-linked Railguns, and you can stick them into a transport because they're infantry (not jump infantry). You can give them slow and purposeful rule with wargear. But again, there's no access points or firing hatches in Tau vehicles; they're pressurized environments.

Orky - having slow and purposeful units fire out of transports is pretty standard. Ghazghkull Thraka has custom mega-armour, and I jet him around the battlefield in a trukk or battlewagon; he fires his big shoota with the rest of the squad inside the trukk. Any Nobs with mega-armour fit under the same rule.

Broadsides may be classed as infantry but devilfishes have specific exceptions against XV battlesuits being able to ride inside.

XV88 Broadside battlesuits fall into this catagorery. But nice try ^.^

Chaos can use this with rhinos and Thousand Sons...slow and purposeful, move and shoot once at full range with the AP3 weaponry.

We've seen it done in our gaming club and thought the ruling was ok.

Yeah, I was specifically thinking Thousand Sons in Rhinos would be the ones most likely to pull this one off.

I had just thought that turning a Rhino into a cheap Predator with passengers would be the ultimate definition of 'bending the rules to your advantage'. (I was mainly thinking that the 'As if the Model hadn't moved at all' and 'No model may fire from the firing points if...' would be conflicting, and there's no way to tell which one trumps the other, so I guess in all technicality that you could honestly move the Rhino it's full range and still fire heavy weapons from the firing points).

I personally don't think this is a legal tactic. Relentless doesn't say a model can ignore the rules for being transported. While it DOES say a model can fire rapid fire and heavy weapons even if it moved in the movement phase, it does NOT say that the model can fire irregardless of OTHER factors. Just like fleet doesn't allow you to charge out of a closed top vehicle that moved the previous turn, S&P doesn't allow you to fire from a vehicle that moved more than 6".

Agreed with the above. The rules for transports don't say that the Fire Point can't be used because the models inside moved. If this was the case then all units would be able to fire assault weapons from a Rhino because they are unaffected by movement.

Instead it is just a blanket prohibition from using the Fire Point if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed or faster.

Democratus wrote:Agreed with the above. The rules for transports don't say that the Fire Point can't be used because the models inside moved. If this was the case then all units would be able to fire assault weapons from a Rhino because they are unaffected by movement.

Instead it is just a blanket prohibition from using the Fire Point if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed or faster.

Yeah, I agree.

Relentless basically treats heavy and rapid fire weapons and such as Assault weapons (it removes the penalty.)

The vehicle thing is clear that no models can shoot, it doesn't say "models can shoot, but they count as moving."

A relentless model inside a transport might count as a stationary or something, but the transport moved and the rules say that forbids everything inside from shooting.

Edit: PS- A chaos rhino can be fired out of by 2 guys per turn. There's just 1 fire point, but 2 models can use it. It's in the chaos errata/FAQ whatever thing on GW website.

What what??

The rules simply say the firing models count as moving if the vehicle moved (and adds in an exception to fire if the vehicle moves above a certain speed)

If a model moves or counts as having moved (from deep strike, disembarking from a moving vehicle etc) then you simply refer to all the rules and bear in mind that the model has moved.

The relentless USR allows the model with the rule to count as stationary even if it had moved in the previous movement phase (the phase before, not the turn before etc).

If they are in a transport vehicle which moves at a speed slower than cruising speed then that model, if it chooses to fire, will count as having moved for the purposes of firing its weapon.

The weapon that model then fires gets affected by (we assume its got it) the rentless/slow & purposeful USR. If its a heavy/rapid fire weapon that model may fire that weapon as if it were stationary.

1-2-3.

Razerous wrote:What what??

The rules simply say the firing models count as moving if the vehicle moved (and adds in an exception to fire if the vehicle moves above a certain speed)

If a model moves, counts as move (from deep strike, disembarking from a moving vehicle etc) then you simply refer to all the rules and bear in mind that the model has moved.

The relentless USR allows the model with the rule to count as stationary even if it had moved in the previous movement phase (the phase before, not the turn before etc).

If they are in a transport vehicle and that vehicle moves at a speed slower than cruising speed than that model if it chooses to fire will count as having moved.

The weapon that model then fires gets affected by (we assume its got it) the rentless/slow & purposeful USR if its a heavy/rapid fire weapon that model may fire that weapon as if it were stationary.

1-2-3.

No.

"If they are in a transport vehicle AND that vehicle moves at slower than cruising speed, then the model can fire as having moved."

BUT, "(Models being transported) may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." (Page 66.)

It is VERY clear that if you move at cruising speed faster than the 6", then Relentless won't allow you to shoot. It's the vehicle speed not model speed which determines if anyone can shoot out of the vehicle.

The original poster asked
"Is it possible for a model with the Slow and Purposeful rule allowed to fire from access points in a transport vehicle if it had moved more than 6"?"

TheBloodGod wrote:

Razerous wrote:What what??

The rules simply say the firing models count as moving if the vehicle moved (and adds in an exception to fire if the vehicle moves above a certain speed)

If a model moves, counts as move (from deep strike, disembarking from a moving vehicle etc) then you simply refer to all the rules and bear in mind that the model has moved.

The relentless USR allows the model with the rule to count as stationary even if it had moved in the previous movement phase (the phase before, not the turn before etc).

If they are in a transport vehicle and that vehicle moves at a speed slower than cruising speed than that model if it chooses to fire will count as having moved.

The weapon that model then fires gets affected by (we assume its got it) the rentless/slow & purposeful USR if its a heavy/rapid fire weapon that model may fire that weapon as if it were stationary.

1-2-3.

No.

"If they are in a transport vehicle AND that vehicle moves at slower than cruising speed, then the model can fire as having moved."

BUT, "(Models being transported) may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." (Page 66.)

It is VERY clear that if you move at cruising speed faster than the 6", then Relentless won't allow you to shoot. It's the vehicle speed not model speed which determines if anyone can shoot out of the vehicle.

The original poster asked
"Is it possible for a model with the Slow and Purposeful rule allowed to fire from access points in a transport vehicle if it had moved more than 6"?"

My bad

Edit: Ever since the OP I entirely missed the point that he was actually trying see if you could fire @ crusing speed + rather than the workings of relentless & firepoints!

Dashofpepper wrote:Well....if only Devilfish had firing points.

Broadside Battlesuits have twin-linked Railguns, and you can stick them into a transport because they're infantry (not jump infantry). You can give them slow and purposeful rule with wargear. But again, there's no access points or firing hatches in Tau vehicles; they're pressurized environments.

Orky - having slow and purposeful units fire out of transports is pretty standard. Ghazghkull Thraka has custom mega-armour, and I jet him around the battlefield in a trukk or battlewagon; he fires his big shoota with the rest of the squad inside the trukk. Any Nobs with mega-armour fit under the same rule.

Codex states that Df's can't take troops in XV battlesuits

Dude!

NECROMANCY!!!!!!!

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