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This is kind of a whimsical list I tossed together last night, there are 120 boyz and 132 models total in this list with 8 PK's, the dreads are more for fluff than utility.

HQ
Warboss with PK, attack squig, 'eavy armor, and cybork 115 points

Warboss with PK, attack squig, 'eavy armor, and cybork 115 points

Troops:
30 slugga boys Nob with PK and Bosspole 220 points

30 slugga boys Nob with PK and Bosspole 220 points

30 slugga boys Nob with PK and Bosspole 220 points

30 slugga boys Nob with PK and Bosspole 220 points

8 man Nob squad with 2xBP 2xPK 5xBig Choppas 5xWaaagh! banners , Painboy, all with 'eavy armor and cybork 430 points

Heavy support:
Deffdread 2x DCCW 105

Deffdread 2x DCCW 105

This list is anything but imaginative, However, it allows for an enormous amount of flexibility. It does have a weakness to templates that is to be sure, but the high model count makes even the most template heavy armies have to really prioritize their fire.

Edited (because I apparently suck at doing math off the top of my head )

Far too troops heavy in my opinion.

You've got the second warboss with a re-rollable leadership 9, but nothing to really benefit from it.

The best unit in the ork dex is probably the nobs, but their weakness is that they have terrible leadership. Drop 60 slugga boys for another nob unit.

I don't think having both eavy armor and cyborks is necessary. Eavy armor is only 16% better when you can use it, which isn't all that often. You'll be taking 4+ cover when you are playing right, and in CC, a tooled up nob unit doesn't have a whole lot to fear from anything that lets you take an armor save. I'd just take one over the other, and it'd likely be cybork... if you wiggled everything just right after dropping eavy armor, you could buy your 3rd dread.

Am I reading that wrong or do you have 5x waaagh banners?

this kinda list is just begging for ghazgkull. its all about da stompiness, in a propa orky way...

-shep If I drop 60 boys it is nolonger a green tide it is just a carbon copy Ork list. Also I tend to agree with Stalin "Quantity has it's own quality" and there is no amount of utility 10 nobz have that can override the utility 60 ork boys have.

The second warboss affords me the ability to spread out my threat when I need it.

I agree Nobs are simply an amazing CC unit with one exception ap5 weapons which is a majority of the weapons in the game auto wound them and a 4+ armor with a 4+ FNP is a 75% chance that they do not take a wound. You are correct it is easy to get 4+ cover but I think of the 4+ armor as insurance also it benefits me in CC with FNP as mentioned above.

Yes the obcene amount of Waagh! Banners is acually beneficial one for wound allocation because with the current set up i can have every nob equipped differently. Also WS 10 and 9 makes it so most other things out there hit you on 5+ I have found that the 75 points for the banners saves you more then 75 points in wounds

Though Gazzgul is neat he simply does not out weigh 2 warbosses and he is the same cost as two of them.

Nothing wrong with a bit of green tide loving!

A couple of suggestions that are personal flair, and a couple of important things to consider.

1. In a Foot slogging army, shoota boyz are almost infinitely more valuable than a choppa/slugga boy. You lose 1 attack on the charge, and gain 2x shots per boy. 30 Boyz x 2 shots each = 60 shots. You're actually ADDING to your killing ability...ESPECIALLY given that Orks on the charge are initiative 3, and most of the armies you fight are initiative 4.

2. Personal style here: Mad Dok Grotsnik is 160 points. He confers Feel No Pain and Fearless to his unit. I *really* like him. I stick him in with a squad of 30 boyz. A squad of 30 'Ard Boyz...you get one mob of them per army. Doing so means that you have a squad of 10 point Orks with a 4+ armour save and a 4+ feel no pain. If you put some woods on the board, you'll have a 4+ cover save too.

What REALLY works well though is that everyone BEHIND this unit now has a 4+ cover save. You can string these guys out and march them up the board and they'll take a beating and keep ticking, while everyone behind them gets a free 4+ save. When you're shooting you'll be granting a free 4+ cover save to your enemies but...so? AP5 weapons aren't scary for taking away armour saves, they're scary because you shot them 60 frickin' times...per unit.

3. Nobs: Waaugh! Banners don't stack, so you really only need one. I'd try equipping them all differently; it lets you spread wounds out and further increase your survivability - 10 Nobs, and try this:

1. Painboy
2. Bosspole
3. Waaugh! Banner
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw / Ammo Runt
6. Big Choppa
7. Big Choppa / Ammo Runt
8. Scorcha
9. Ammo Runt
10. Normal Nob.

You've got pretty much the same thing, but now with a much longer lifespan. Give them all 'Eavy armour and they're 2 wound models with a 4+ armour and a 4+ Feel No Pain.

4. Honestly, I'd drop all your Cybork Bodies. All your foot sloggers (except the front guys) should have 4+ cover saves, which are going to make your 5+ invulnerable irrelevant except in close combat - its pretty wasted on foot sloggers.

5. Don't listen to the other guy about having too many troops. Maybe even drop a Deff-dread or two and add another troops choice or two?

6. A viable alternative to still provide cover saves are gretchin. For a foot slogging army, they're a cheap, fun way to give you 4+ cover saves. Take 29 gretchin and 2 Runtherders for a cost of 107 points, and string those along your front line to give you cover saves.

Lots of things you can do, just trying to help you pack a bit more punch.

-Dashofpepper OK that was quite a response ty though I appreciate the comments.

1. Well the difference being I may get an extra shot per guy but that shot is at BS 2 where ork WS is 4 the math seems to lean in favor of CC to me in terms of generating dice. ALso I play tau as my main army so the less shooting this army does the better but that just personal reasons lol.

2. Interesting concept tempting but since I have 2 Ork warbosses from the AOBR sets I bought I plan on using em unless i change the style of this list.

3. I am confused on this one I have seen nothing that would preclude the banners from stacking because if they don't I fully intend to use the points else where. However I checked the errata and the codex and I do not see where it says they don't stack.

4. I like cybork against PW's and PF's I cannot tell you how many Nobs and warbosses it has saved me from loosing. But as you said personal flair.

5. I am keeping my Dreads at almost all cost i modded them out of SM dreads and i really like how they look on the table but i may drop them infavor of another nob squad or more boyz.

6. Gretchin are super cheap and very viable but just not to my taste I like having a monsterous amount of boyz

Again ty for the comments I appreciate it.

They don't stack. Plus why would you need WS higher than 5? Anyway, replace those ammo runts dash pointed out with more kombi-skorchas or an additional bosspole. I'd remove 'eavy Armour. You can get the cover save just by having them behind the sluggas.

I'd take a KFF Big Mek instead of one of the bosses so the boyz in front get more protection.

Prophet of Dakka wrote:They don't stack. Plus why would you need WS higher than 5? Anyway, replace those ammo runts dash pointed out with more kombi-skorchas or an additional bosspole. I'd remove 'eavy Armour. You can get the cover save just by having them behind the sluggas.

I'd take a KFF Big Mek instead of one of the bosses so the boyz in front get more protection.

I am looking very hard right now to find where it says they don;t stack or a rule in the core rule book that says that kind of effect does not, I know you can;t purchase a bunch of attack squigs to gan attacks on Warbosses or big meks because in the rule book it states you cannot gain more then +1 attack for any war gear option unless the codex specifically states that you can. It doesn;t say anythign about weapon skill.

WS 9 and 10 means marines and most races in the game hit you on 5+ that weeds out alot of dice and thus saves you a good deal of wounds this comboed with the 'eavy armor and FNP reduces the wounds you take by a huge margin in CC.

Also the 'eavy armor is mainly for CC against things without PW's which there is wuite alot anf it comboed with FNP makes for some very very hearty models.

Honestly, they don't stack.
Painboy
Nob, PK
Nob, PK, kombi skorcha
Nob PK, Waagh! banner
Nob Kombi skorcha
Nob Big choppa, kombi skorcha
Nob boss pole, kombi skorcha
Nob big choppa
3 power klaws and 4 kombi skorchas is brutal.

I would personally drop te dredds and squeak 10 points to get 30 more boys. The only real benefit is that they will shoot the gak out of them and give your boys a chance to run in virtually unmolested. They will NOT make it to CC often at all. Neither will the nobs. They will be the priority 2 target. That is ok, bacause a BUNCH of untouched boys will hit like a truck.

btw ghaz is > all. Look at his stats again. He is dead killy and damn hard to kill. His super waaagh! is awesome as well. The only reason I don't recommend him is his movement rate. If you aren't rolling in a trukk or wagon with him, then he loses a bit of his luster.

Does anyone here have a specific entry or reference I can look at that stipulates that they don;t stack I don't mind freeing up the points I just want evidence. I am lookng at both the errata and the codex right now and there is nothing that says you can't. I will dig through the core rule book in a sec but I am at a loss to where i can find this?

I agree a KFF would help alot.

And shoota boyz instead of sluggas 2 rounds of pain and then cc instead of 2 rounds of lost boyz. skip those nobs for some heavy shooting support like lootas.

Skurk3n wrote:I agree a KFF would help alot.

And shoota boyz instead of sluggas 2 rounds of pain and then cc instead of 2 rounds of lost boyz. skip those nobs for some heavy shooting support like lootas.

Gonna avoid shooting this is a purely assault based list shoota boys really don't interest me ya it is 60 shots but you have to figure only 1/3 are going to hit so 20 hits and only 50% of that are going to wound against MEQ armies so 10 wounds and if I stop to shoot I loose the 1-6 inch run I could get during that phase.

Also the big mek is tempting since it makes one of my dreads a scoring unit as well as the 5+ cover in the open as well as grants my dread 4+ cover in the open.

u cant score with a vehicle but it makes it troop

Skurk3n wrote:u cant score with a vehicle but it makes it troop

Right but in 5th ed. all troops are scoring units or if you want it verbatim from the core rule book here ya go "An army's scoring untis are all the units that come from it's troops allowance" so even my nobs are a scoring unit thanks to the warboss allowing me to take them as a troop choice.

I reckon the big bunch of boyz with eavy armor & FNP from the mad-doc character will be better choice than getting a 4+ cover save to your dred (most/all your boyz should get a better cover save)

Unless you get a SAG.. which you probably wont as you do want shooty.

You want stompy & he as a Urty syringe!


As for scoring vehicles.. if you would kindly direct your attention to the BGB P90 and the read the seciton of text to the right-hand side of the page under the title " Scoring Units"

Yeah but read the whole rule with exceptions to.

1. Waaagh! banners don't stack.
2. Vehicles (walkers) cannot be scoring units.
3. If you do the math, shootas are a much better choice as foot sloggers. Saying you don't want to is fine, but doing fuzzy math and discounting the fact that you can kill ~8 enemies before you get there is short sighted. In all honesty, the boys do very little other than soak up damage for the powerklaw. You will get just as few wounds in cc as shooting. The power klaw kills things dead every round.

If you are using sluggas, a kff mek is pretty much mandatory.

Run it any way you would like. It would be more killy replacing the doomed nobs with 2 14 man squads of lootas, swapping the sluggas for shootas, drop the dredds for 30 more shootas with nob pk bp, and dropping a boss for a kff mek.

~ 56 loota shots, 285 shoota shots, and 45 big shoota shots per turn.
6 loota wounds, 31 shoota wounds, and 5 big shoota wounds per turn. That is an average (going low) of 10 unsaved wounds per turn. Don't seem so weak to me. That is 20 dead enemies befor you charge.

at last someone that has the same opinion as me

Indeed - even troop choice walkers are not scoring units.

To the OP: As I said, personal style. Having shoota boyz doesn't mean that you're going to stop every turn and shoot - they have an 18" range, which is going to restrict you to 1-2 turns of shooting anyway. Here's the real problem I think you have with your list:

How are you going to deal with a squad of 5 terminators who have say...4 power swords and 1 power fist? Or some lightning claws? Lets say that your 30 boyz somehow make it to them unmolested. You have one powerklaw in there. The terminators are going to strike first, and those power weapons are going to shred your boyz. 30 boyz also aren't going to get into base contact with 5 models when you assault, so you're not going to get all your attacks. Your basic attacks are going to be mostly laughed off by 2+ armour saves unless they're unlucky, and stormshields and other invulnerable saves will give a chance against your powerklaw. A round of shooting would save you a lot of trouble here.

This is especially noticeable when you are using a mechanized army (Trukk Boyz) or if your assaulting unit gets whittled down before you make it into assault.

As far as your walkers go - Deff Dreads HAVE a place. Your army list isn't that place. Every competent player you ever play will always have at *least* SOME anti-tank in their army. In your army, there are only two vehicles, and they're both armour 10. I'm probing my crystal ball, and I don't see any scenarios where your Deff Dreads live past turn 1. For Orks, if you're going to present vehicles, you make your enemies choose between them, so they can't get them all. You only have two; they can choose both and kill both.

Maybe you should consider some Stormboyz? If you want to get up the field as fast as possible, you can't go wrong with a squad of Stormboyz. They'll move 12+D6 inches up the field and outpace your foot sloggers, meaning that your enemy is going to have to divide fire and decide which is a bigger threat.

And please....do *something* to give yourself some cover saves. A sacrificial line of orks or gretchin fits in well; I outlined before a couple ways of doing it. If you take this army against me, as listed (I'm Tau - I play my wife's orks pretty often, but I'm Tau), here's what happens. Lets say that I go first; doesn't really matter though.

Turn 1(me): My broadside team $*&@^ your two Deff Dreads, my hammerhead sub-munitions wherever it can do the most damage, and my sniper teams kill a couple of nobs and force you to take several pinning tests. With leadership 7, and facing 3-9 Strength 6 AP3 wounds, you're going to lose some nobs and probably get pinning. 5+ cybork invul saves don't go that far. Nor do 4+ cover saves. In the meantime, my firewarriors test range and take any shots that they can.
Turn 1(you): You advance 6+D6 up the field towards me.

Turn2(me): I submunition your troops again (probably lead unit) and my Broadsides waste several Strength 10 AP1 shots on troops (Nobs) since there are no more vehicles to shoot at. My firewarriors dump into your since you're probably within 30" now. My suit teams open up, and the one with flamers (I always have one) introduces you to the concept of an 8" template of instant kill. Then they assault jump 6" away from you while snickering.
Turn2(you): You advance 6+D6 up the field towards me. One of my suit teams may be in assault range if I moved poorly, and I'll lose them.

Turn3(me): I ordanance your troops wherever they are most concentrated. You're probably close enough to assault this turn, so my firewarriors are going to advance to within 12" and rapid-fire an unholy amount of firepower into whatever is alive. If your nobs aren't all dead, they're pinned. If they aren't (somehow?) my broadsides finish them, with help from my snipers if needed. My crisis suits unleash hell into whatever is still alive, and then set up a living barricade between you and my firewarriors.
Turn3(you): The pitiful remnants of your army advance 6+D6 looking for an assault, and if I've played well, the only targets you have are my suits. I hope they die. Lets say that they do.

Turn4(me): My suits are dead, and my firewarriors exact vengeance. Rapid Fire from my fire warrior squads incinerate the remainder of your forces, and the game ends.


There are some possible variants of this theme, but that's pretty much what's going to happen. I'll drop a markerlight or two where its needed to remove cover saves, and when you're close to give my firewarrior squads +1 or +2 to ballistic skill. Having a squad of Firewarriors get 24 shots needing 2s to hit and 3s to kill is pretty deadly, especially with your 6+ armour save. =p

Best advice I can give you: Assemble your list and go try it in a game or two. If it doesn't perform well, consider some of the things that we've said.

Having a couple of AV 10 vehicles is a bit fail.. fortunately the deff dreads are AV12/12/10 so they are a little hardier.

That amount of boyz that have a cover save (the key issue with this list) will eat up alot of fire and keep on running.

Why dont you get two Da Gorespeeda's (see battlewagon section) & stick 20 boys in each. Use the spare points to upgrade some of the orks to get a mad-doc or eavy armor, etc.

Zhetsuken wrote:-shep If I drop 60 boys it is nolonger a green tide it is just a carbon copy Ork list. Also I tend to agree with Stalin "Quantity has it's own quality" and there is no amount of utility 10 nobz have that can override the utility 60 ork boys have.

Heh, I don't know any other lists out there that run slugga boys on foot. and two nob units on foot. hardly a carbon copy. I mistook your post for a request to make your list better. I guess this is more of a 'show and tell' thread.

Zhetsuken wrote:The second warboss affords me the ability to spread out my threat when I need it.

He only moves 6" a turn, why not buy him a bike if you are going to use him that way?

Zhetsuken wrote:I agree Nobs are simply an amazing CC unit with one exception ap5 weapons which is a majority of the weapons in the game auto wound them and a 4+ armor with a 4+ FNP is a 75% chance that they do not take a wound. You are correct it is easy to get 4+ cover but I think of the 4+ armor as insurance also it benefits me in CC with FNP as mentioned above.

Yes the obcene amount of Waagh! Banners is acually beneficial one for wound allocation because with the current set up i can have every nob equipped differently. Also WS 10 and 9 makes it so most other things out there hit you on 5+ I have found that the 75 points for the banners saves you more then 75 points in wounds

Honestly, 4+ cover is so easy to get in 5th ed if you have your head on right. nobs do not fear bolters, if you are factoring in FNP the percentage increase in survivability between cybork bodies and eavy armor is 8%. Really, 8% more successful saves against weapons that let you have 4+ armor saves. So, wimpy CC attacks, bolters that don't instant death you and only wound on a 4... lasguns. Heavy bolters, any special weapon, any heavy weapon (those will insta kill you too) thunder hammers, power swords, rending... all will use the cybork. Eavy armor is not worth the points if you already have cybork.

Waaagh banners don't stack and there are plenty of 5 point upgrades to make you nobs all different. Thats why I brought it to your attention.

Dashofpepper wrote:Don't listen to the other guy about having too many troops unless you want to win games.

fixed this "other guys" post.

o.O good lord look what happens when I go to sleep lol.

-Skurk3n You are correct it was kind of late and apparently my brain wasn't working so well, I do know that deffdreads are not scoring units my bad.

-Dash of pepper well if deployed correctly I am going to Waagh! second turn and at least 2 of my untis will be in CC tieing up their untis i have seen armies with a ton of shooty but dealing with 120boys in 1-3 turns I have yet to see a list that can do that, not to say one does not exist.

-Dash assault terminators or Chaos terminators all I am really going to do is tie them up with a squad of boys they are only going to be able to remove handful or so perturn and my Nobs PK attacks will work effectively enough to reduce the amount of wounds they can generate.

-Dash I am pretty good at abusing covers saves so there is no concerns there. However, there is usually one turn due to terrain and if my opponent deployed intelligently where i will be out in the open the only adjustment to this would be a Big Mek with a KFF, I will play test with both.

-If people waste shots on my deff dreads thats awsume they are only 105 points as equipped, so loosing them doesn't hurt me and it removes a unit from shooting at da tide coming at them.

-Inigo 1. Ya the more I look at the codex that does seem to be correct I will be redoing the list slightly to represent this.

-Inigo 3. This is a themed list and if you had not noticed there isn't a bit of shooty in the list that was done intentionally. Ork shooting can be quit good especially lootas but they aren't much to my liking.

Also it sem as if some people are missing the theme this isn't supposed to be a super competative list if it was I would run the super biker nobs list, this is a green tide list 100+ boys with a little back up.

-Shep not show and tell so much as people are missing the point of the list and I think thats my fault perhapse I should have been more explicit.

-Shep I think you missed what I ment, what I ment was I could run him with one of the squads of boys or I could run him with the nob squad chances are I would put one boss with the nobs and the other somewhere else and depending on the army maybe both Boss in different groups of boys that way not all my eggs are in one basket.

Honestly, 4+ cover is so easy to get in 5th ed if you have your head on right. nobs do not fear bolters, if you are factoring in FNP the percentage increase in survivability between cybork bodies and eavy armor is 8%. Really, 8% more successful saves against weapons that let you have 4+ armor saves. So, wimpy CC attacks, bolters that don't instant death you and only wound on a 4... lasguns. Heavy bolters, any special weapon, any heavy weapon (those will insta kill you too) thunder hammers, power swords, rending... all will use the cybork. Eavy armor is not worth the points if you already have cybork.

Waaagh banners don't stack and there are plenty of 5 point upgrades to make you nobs all different. Thats why I brought it to your attention

Ya like I said I will play with the list and remove all but one of the waagh banners and see what else I want to do with the points. As for the 'eavy armor you would be surprised how many wounds that measly 4+ has saved me.

-SHep not sure how you mean if you want to win games horde lists like this invariably are very hard for most lists to deal with perhapse I should clearup the points and take another unit of 30 boys. 120-150 Boys can wipe most armies off the board by turn 5 provided rolling is averege, and the armies it can;t is slogs them down so bad and covers so much area it is almost impossible for them ti win in any kind objective games. Kill points is a laugh they have to knock out 31 wounds before they get 1 KP for each of the boy squads and 16 wounds with FNP for the Nob squad. It has been quite effective each time I have played the list though it is far from perfect.

-Shep you are right though I did but it in here for C&C and i am taking some of the advice i will be reworkign the nob squad.

Zhetsuken wrote:-SHep not sure how you mean if you want to win games horde lists like this invariably are very hard for most lists to deal with perhapse I should clearup the points and take another unit of 30 boys. 120-150 Boys can wipe most armies off the board by turn 5 provided rolling is averege, and the armies it can;t is slogs them down so bad and covers so much area it is almost impossible for them ti win in any kind objective games. Kill points is a laugh they have to knock out 31 wounds before they get 1 KP for each of the boy squads and 16 wounds with FNP for the Nob squad. It has been quite effective each time I have played the list though it is far from perfect.

On my way in to work i thought of a really good way to describe what happens to horde ork armies from the concept stage to the actual playing a game stage.

Before I go on, I want to clarify that I run 90 shoota boys pretty consistently, I'm not a nob biker player... I do fully understand how difficult it is to kill 30 orks. Also, I'm a tourney player. As I looked over your post again, I did notice that you seemed to be making a more casual list. No reason not to streamline it a bit...

Back to the horde orks. Ok, if its easy for you to pull out and set up a gaming surface, set up terrain and get your models out, then I have a great exercise that will help me make my point. Deploy your army using the rules for spearhead. if you can't or don't feel like setting the table up, just visualize the gaming space in a spearhead deployment. And then imagine where you'll put your models.

Even with 90 shoota boys, each with 3x 36" range big shootas, I feel like spearhead really takes a lot of the horde ork strength away. When you get deployed in a diamond like that with 120 boys plus nobs... all with only pistols to shoot... then you have no game impact for 2 or even 3 turns. if you try to flatten out your deployment, then your opponent can deploy/redeploy away from the bulk of your units.

Even in pitched battles, the lack of depth in your own deployment zone encourages you to deploy your 120 boys edge to edge. That means, when I deploy/redeploy in response. I don't have to kill 4 units, just 2... because 2 of them are tripping over themselves trying to cut across the gaming surface to get back in the game.

The advantage that -60 ork +10 nobs has, is the size of the foot print. You can screen both nob units with sluggas, and deploy in more central areas.

Now if we can get past the competitiveness argument here... and just move on to what you want... which is clearly a high model count army, then there are a couple things I would suggest...

Mad dok grotsnik + ard boys. The winner of the las vegas GT screened his footslogging boys with a large unit of ard boys led by mad dok grotsnik. They didn't always get their eavy armor, or their FNP, but the combination of a large unit, coupled with two more layers of added survivability made for a devastating screen.

ghazgul. Ghaz invented horde foot armies. Your experience with run rolls must be freakishly good if you don't see why he is better than two warbosses. If your whole gameplan revolves around a great waaagh turn, then why wouldn't you want every unit to get an AUTOMATIC 6" run. I guess I've seen one too many 1" runs on a waaagh turn to not respect the big waaagh rule.

If you are looking for a fluff accurate, fun, high model count, non-shooty army... try something like this.

ghazgull

mad doc grotsnik

3x mega armored nobs with cybork bodies

30x ard boys nob power klaw

30x slugga boys nob power klaw bosspole

30x slugga boys nob power klaw bosspole

30x slugga boys nob power klaw bosspole