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Played against a lizardman army last week and was amazed at how insanely effective their skink swarms were. Can't shoot enough to panic them. They're skirmishers, so they just flee if you charge. They're cold blooded, so they have a good chance of recovering morale in many instances.

With that in mind, I bought the new army book for lizzies and pulled out my BfSP night gobbies. O&G are not very fun to play now for me since many armies have fear, heavy STR and are immune to psych. I've decided to 'counts as' the archers as skink skirmishers w/blowpipes and the spear/shield combos can be your javelin/shield skinks. Did I mention that BfSP trolls are on the same bases as Kroxigors?

Anybody else considered this?

To be honest i rather see skinks when i fight skinks and goblins when i fight goblins, but i know more people do count as army's and if people dont think its a problem, its not a problem, i'd personaly not mind much, however a skink army with skinks would get much more respect from me

Do whatever you can get away with I use those goblins a skeletons for my vamps

Why do you want to use goblins as skinks anyways? because you have allot of goblins already, or do you plan to buy allot of BFSP boxes?

if you dont have much i beg you to reconcider and just buy skinks makes you and your opponents much happier in the end ^^

i rather keep my skinks as skinks
also, skinks are cheaper by the box, and require no work to make em skinks

I already have several BfSP armies. The current O&G rules are pants, esp. for night goblins. Since counts as is even officially sanctioned, really don't see why anyone would have a problem. I'm also going to keep unit types to a minimum, so keeping track will be easy for both players. It's odd but it seems like 40k players are more accepting of this counting as that in an army.

JD21290 wrote:i rather keep my skinks as skinks
also, skinks are cheaper by the box, and require no work to make em skinks

I can get 60 night goblins for $60 and that includes a dwarf army and a mini rulebook, too.
There's no work in BfSP night goblins being skinks either.
All archers are now blowgun armed. All hand weapons (that already look like javelins/spears) are javelins.

Honeslty I tend to agree with jd. When I play an army I like seeing the models as is, takes less work on my part to remember this unit is that ect. Especially when your opponent tends to run far to many counts as models.

Also if you brought up the point that you bought 3 or so boxes of bfsp just to use the goblins as skinks.. my opinion of you would be very very low. If your honestly going to play an army buy the models for the army its the least you can do.

Golga wrote:Honeslty I tend to agree with jd. When I play an army I like seeing the models as is, takes less work on my part to remember this unit is that ect. Especially when your opponent tends to run far to many counts as models.

Also if you brought up the point that you bought 3 or so boxes of bfsp just to use the goblins as skinks.. my opinion of you would be very very low. If your honestly going to play an army buy the models for the army its the least you can do.

I didn't buy the gobbos to use as skinks. I bought them to play O&G. Unfortunately, the codex creep with WHFB makes O&G a lot less value points-wise than new armies. That's reflected in general setiment of playing community and recognition that 2500 pts of O&G are allowed to be played in certain 2000 pts organized tournaments. I bought the Lizardman army book after seeing that they are a viable force with similar model concepts (small weedy guys, swarm bases, tough warriors and a stupid bravery (cold blooded) that shouldn't have them running every time someone sneezes).

GW allows counts as and my force will actually be very easy to differentiate. Spears = javelins and Archers = blowpipes. Not really that hard to keep track of.

privateer, are you planning on converting the models, or painting them differently, or is it just a 100%, "yes, these are night goblins to look at but skinks to play" counts-as?

Because the latter does somewhat smack of "I don't like the rules for my models, and I like these rules, so I'm gonna smush the two together."

Counts-as is acceptable for a themed, converted or differently-painted army, or for the occasional (appropriately converted or painted) unit replacement such as using pink-painted, appropriately modelled Dryads as Horrors, but if it is literally a night goblin army being used as a lizardmen army, with no visual concession to the fact...

Well, I'd play you (a game's a game), but don't expect me to think of it as anything other than you proxying your army, and as such don't expect it to go by without comment.

May I recommend painting them up with pale, almost blue-green skin, with brown and yellow-grey stripes on the robes, and with jungle-themed bases? It'll make it clear it's different, and gives you a reason of "They live in the jungle, and are emulating the Lizardmen they've fought before", which turns it from a cost-cutting measure to a nice bit of flavour in my eyes.

Aelyn wrote:privateer, are you planning on converting the models, or painting them differently, or is it just a 100%, "yes, these are night goblins to look at but skinks to play" counts-as?

Because the latter does somewhat smack of "I don't like the rules for my models, and I like these rules, so I'm gonna smush the two together."

Counts-as is acceptable for a themed, converted or differently-painted army, or for the occasional (appropriately converted or painted) unit replacement such as using pink-painted, appropriately modelled Dryads as Horrors, but if it is literally a night goblin army being used as a lizardmen army, with no visual concession to the fact...

Well, I'd play you (a game's a game), but don't expect me to think of it as anything other than you proxying your army, and as such don't expect it to go by without comment.

May I recommend painting them up with pale, almost blue-green skin, with brown and yellow-grey stripes on the robes, and with jungle-themed bases? It'll make it clear it's different, and gives you a reason of "They live in the jungle, and are emulating the Lizardmen they've fought before", which turns it from a cost-cutting measure to a nice bit of flavour in my eyes.

It would smack of that 'smush' because it is. Completely GW legal, even.
As to other players' potential comments about my army, at least it's painted and the stuff is all GW.
On the repainting point, I guess I could say they live in Lustria and painted their skin light green to match some of the green lizardman armies I've seen before.

privateer4hire wrote:

Golga wrote:Honeslty I tend to agree with jd. When I play an army I like seeing the models as is, takes less work on my part to remember this unit is that ect. Especially when your opponent tends to run far to many counts as models.

Also if you brought up the point that you bought 3 or so boxes of bfsp just to use the goblins as skinks.. my opinion of you would be very very low. If your honestly going to play an army buy the models for the army its the least you can do.

I didn't buy the gobbos to use as skinks. I bought them to play O&G. Unfortunately, the codex creep with WHFB makes O&G a lot less value points-wise than new armies. That's reflected in general setiment of playing community and recognition that 2500 pts of O&G are allowed to be played in certain 2000 pts organized tournaments. I bought the Lizardman army book after seeing that they are a viable force with similar model concepts (small weedy guys, swarm bases, tough warriors and a stupid bravery (cold blooded) that shouldn't have them running every time someone sneezes).

GW allows counts as and my force will actually be very easy to differentiate. Spears = javelins and Archers = blowpipes. Not really that hard to keep track of.

Im sorry but the 2500 is allowed to be played in 2000 pt tourneys is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Who honestly allows that sort of thing?

Let me say first that I'm a big fan of counts as armies - hell, that's what the acronym in my sig is about - and support people finding rules that let them play the models they want. Along those lines, I think skinks are an interesting counts as for forest goblins, and I'd love to see that army. Use loads of the little spider rider riders and some fun tribal conversions, along with some GIANT spiders (stegs) or simply huge spiders (krox) to provide heavier support for the mobs of pygmy goblins zipping about and poisoning things. A fun time for all and would look great and be sufficiently different from any goblin army.

Now using unconverted night goblins as skinks simply because the lizardmen book is more competitive? I'm afraid that's more like proxying than count as, and blows apart the point of counts as armies: the indulging of model-first, creative army design. I'll give you credit for being consistent on what unconverted weapon counts as what, but when I make counts as models I try to at the least keep the weapons as analogous as possible. If nothing else though some Lustrian painting / modeling - even basing - would go a ways.

- Salvage

Im sorry but the 2500 is allowed to be played in 2000 pt tourneys is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Who honestly allows that sort of thing?



Apparently, these folks allow that sort of thing: http://ukmasters.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/uk-masters-tournament.pdf

Yea, ridiculous.

Counts as is a rule designed to let you use heavily converted models for armies, ie, my 40k army using techmarines with treads for their lower halves and wielding multi-meltas as...multi-melta attack bikes.

You aren't doing a counts-as army.

You're suggesting a proxy army.

Its the same thing if I say, oh, I have a full lizardmen army, I'm just going to go head and play them as daemons because their book is better. Saurus are bloodletters, skinks are xxxxx, kroxigors are bloodcrushers.

You don't own the army, you can't play it. If it was one of our tournaments, I'd tell you to play within the points limit and with the army you bought, and if you refused, you could leave.

Our last tourney had a OG guy win, fyi, you've just got to be able to play to use them.

Edit: And that tournament doesn't just bump OG, you're misrepresenting what they're doing. They comp/tier armies in order of perceived "power" and then let people use larger forces for the "weaker" armies.

Edit: And that tournament doesn't just bump OG, you're misrepresenting what they're doing. They comp/tier armies in order of perceived "power" and then let people use larger forces for the "weaker" armies.

I said that you could play 2500 pts of O&G to a lower pts value of a more 'powerful' army, which looks pretty much like what you said in your second sentence above.
This was just an organized play example.

Also this stuff about being proxy is hair-splitting. If the O&G models counts as lizardmen is proxy, then the guy who did GS Cult was also proxying Orks when he played at GT.

It's red.
Nuh-uh! It's clearly crimson!

That's kind of missing the point. There are no GT legal rules in writing for a GS cult. Thus if you want to play it, you must run a counts as. There IS a set of GT legal rules for goblins.

I think Boss Salvage has said it best here. Need a more compelling reason than "I like the rules better".

RZ

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Soryr to bump an old thread but I had to laugh at the tourny. Only a max of 6 fanatics. yha I can see why they would allow a 2500 og army to count as 2000.

Have fun in your little tourny.

Skinks are great. Allways have, allways will be .