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Hey there.

Headquarters= Big Mek (KFF) >85
Elites= 9 Lootas (Deffguns) >135
Elites= 9 Lootas (Deffguns) >135
Elites= 10 Kommandos (Snikrot, 2 Burnas) >215
Troops= 19 Grots & 1 Runtherd >67
Troops= 30 Shoota Boyz >180
Troops= 30 Shoota Boyz >180
Troops= 30 Slugga Boyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw) >215
Troops= 30 Slugga Boyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw) >215
Troops= 30 Slugga Boyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw) >215
Fast Attack= 14 Stormboyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw & Bosspole) >208

Total Points: 1,850
Total Models: 213


This list was an effort in discipline, trying to squeeze as much as I could for the points. Hopefully it worked out as I intended, but I do feel naked with this list. My general thinking is that the sluggas will be the core of the line, with shootas flanking. The mek's placed smack in the middle to cover the sluggas, the grot screen covering them, and maybe even the trailing stormboyz. The rest is fairly self-explanatory... I do fear armies, I fear those which have plentiful AV 14 and which are highly maneuverable. I suppose my only real tactic against those elite armies is to simply have too many orks to kill before I can krump them.

What are you thoughts? Should I sacrifice numbers, maybe around 20-30 boyz for some moar dakka and klaws? Are those burnas necessary (they were the last thing I added, I saw them as more useful than 3 kommandos/2 lootas, but how necessary are bosspoles in large squads?)?

Thanks!

For a start your army is illegal its one Runtherd for every 10 grots. I reckon the bosspoles are worth it remember with a 30 strong mob if you fail a Ld test you lose the unit, they are below 50% and therefore can't rally. I'd also drop Snikrot for Eavy weapons and every Ork Nob should have a Power Klaw they just should.

Llamahead: Its a legal unit its not 20 grots its 19 and a mob of orks is fearless until they are 10 man left. And yes bosspoles is a good investment. maybe big shootas for those shootaboyz.

Looks pretty good, but every nob in a mob needs a power klaw. Bosspoles run a close second.

If you drop the grots you are 11 points short of putting 3 big shootas and a nob with a pk and bp in each shoota squad. I would definetly do that - squeeze 11 out of there somewhere...


Should run nicely. AV 14 is fail for orks in nearly any build... :(

Thanks all!

I did some primitive running of numbers, and I found myself satisfied with the following build, but it was the last 125 points I was unsure about. I use them for a grot-prod, 1 kommando, and the lobbas unit... but I'm not dead set on it.

Headquarters= Big Mek (KFF) >85
Elites= 9 Lootas (Deffguns) >135
Elites= 9 Lootas (Deffguns) >135
Elites= 11 Kommandos (Snikrot, 2 Burnas) >225
Troops= 19 Grots & 1 Runtherd (Grot-Prod) >72
Troops= 27 Shoota Boyz >162
Troops= 27 Shoota Boyz >162
Troops= 27 Shoota Boyz >162
Troops= 30 Slugga Boyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw) >215
Troops= 30 Slugga Boyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw) >215
Fast Attack= 11 Stormboyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw & Bosspole) >172
Heavy Support= 3 Big Gunz (Lobbas, 5 Additional Crew, 3 Ammo Runts, Runtherd) >109

Total Points: 1,849
Total Models: 217

I went with Lobbas instead of kannons because I did not see myself having enough firelanes to count on. Sure they scatter alot, but they do have 48" range, so they'll be hitting the gunline from the begging. The fact they can scratch tanks is nice as well. Kannons... They're mediocre at tank-krumpin, and mediocre at infantry killing as well.

Why 27? Well with that many I can count on 3 kills against MEQ in shooting, before any casualties of course. The 3 orks only add a 1/3 casualty... and I just couldn't justify the points. They're flanking and supporting the center sluggas. They can duke it out with the "anti-horde" tac squads and win by double-digits, even when taking fire, so I don't really see the need to spend nearly 60 points for bosspoles. If I'm down that low with those squads, having 5 orks stuck in combat won't make much of a difference. I tried to limit the numbers for each other unit likewise.

So each unit I have isn't a take-all unit with a PK (the solution to everything! lol). But this list should work because each unit supports each other, and have clear purposes and an ability to do those things well.

I think I'm taking a risk taking the bite and staying power out of some squads... but I also think I'm taking the overkill and wasted points out of them as well, making them more efficient. But I've never fielded any list like this, so I just don't know for sure. I need your advice on that. As far as things like BS's go... I just can't see them justifying their points, especially when I skimp on klaws first. That's why I'm saying if I shouldn't skimp on klaws, I should hedge my bet on the strength of numbers and symbiosis, then I'll consider the next level of importance after that, upgrades like BS's. At least that's how I stack them. :/

Thanks again DD

Eeeee....

Lootas are great, but part of what makes them great is that you can make them fearless.

Anything less than 15 Lootas pretty much means that you are wasting points - Lootas have a base leadership of 7 just like any Ork. If I dedicate one unit to fire at each of your Loota squads, you're going to lose 3-4 Lootas per squad. You've now got a 25% casualty morale test, and your leadership is 7. An average dice roll. Roll higher and you fail, and its easy to roll higher than a 7.

Honest assessment: Take 15 Lootas, or take none at all. If you want 2 squads of Lootas, take 30 Lootas.

The strength of Orks is that it can do almost ANYTHING better than anyone else. It seems like what you're trying to do is a bit of EVERYTHING at the same time. That doesn't work so well with Orks.

*EDIT* Also, agree with other poster. If you are trying to play competitively, a powerklaw and a nob is a must have in EVERY unit. In a fight against bad stuff (terminators, assault marines, normal marines, broadsides, crisis suits) it lets you pretty much make sure that you inflict some instant death so that you win combat resolution.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Honest assessment: Take 15 Lootas, or take none at all. If you want 2 squads of Lootas, take 30 Lootas.

QFT.

Most opponents (assuming they know what Lootas are capable of) will make them a high target priority, and with small units they will likely be running off the board first turn. Plus, more lootas = more loota fire!

I've also had some luck putting a unit of 15 lootas in a battlewagon with 2 big shootas. Park it somewhere in the back with the front armor facing the enemy and blast away. The wagon is open-topped, so as long as you don't move the wagon your lootas can all fire out of it. Then your opponent has to punch through that AV 14 front armor before they can touch your firebase.

And if you want to be particularly nasty...

You can take 3 battlewagons full of Lootas You can plop a Mek (and a unt of something) with a KFF next to one of the Battlewagons and make them all get 4+ cover saves. You can put a killakannon on top of each of the battlewagons and get a Strength 7 AP3 Large blast template on each. The transport capacity is reduced to 12 though, so you'll only be able to take 12 Lootas per wagon if you do that.

Or try this: 3 Battlewagons side by side. The flanking battlewagons each have 12 Lootas and the wagon has a killakannon (and a kannon). The Battlewagon in the middle has 15 Lootas and a mek with a KFF attached. Each of the battlewagons flanking should be within 6" of the middle one, and they all have 4+ now, and you have a SERIOUS firebase.

I should invest 1000+ points in a firebase?

Sure it's "hard to kill", but it leaves my what, 3-4 mobs worth of boyz hung out to dry. Investing so much in a 4+ cover save seems the same to me in a footslogging list as giving a boyz mob cybork bodies. It's so expensive for an effectively small boost in survivability.

I just don't see the effeciency in using Battlewagons as bunkers, putting Lootas in them, and then not moving except maybe in Spearhead to get in range.

Meanwhile I'd have no actual mobility, as the Battlewagons basically just make the Lootas less fragile. I would need to seriously skimp on boyz to actually attack any artillery. And putting killkannons on the battlewagons makes as much sense as putting a deffrolla on them when I'm rarely going to move them.

I'm open to powerklaws and beefing up squads, but let's just nip this battlewagon-Loota idea in the bud here. Maybe it's a fun combination to try for a shooty ork army from hell, but not the way I'm going here. Just the same, please don't suggest switching out my mobs for nob bikers. I'd like to have a bit of focus at least .

Thanks again, and I'll be thinking of the PK's and squad sizes.

Again, you're caught in the "bit of everything" mentality.

Orks can make a gunline or a shooty army to make Tau cower. You can also make an assault army to make tyranids cower. You can make a mechanized list, a green tide...there's a lot of things you can do with Orks. But you can't do them ALL at the same time. Any particular army list has to take one element and maximize it.

If you were to stick 3 Loota squads into battlewagons, you're no longer talking about an assault army, you're making a shooty army. 3 squads of Lootas in mobile bunkers that have their OWN huge guns. Attach a couple of shokk attack guns in there if you like. A couple of Deff Dreads or Killakannon squads with ranged weaponry. Tack in whatever free points you have to get as many shoota boyz as you can, and those are your mobile firepower. 30 boyz at Assault 2 is 60 shots...someone's gonna lose some models, and you hold such vast fire superiority at this point that you can annihilate pretty much anything (although you're going to be weak against mechanized stuff, especially Land Raiders - that's what powerklaws are for)

That's one potential army combination. If you're going to use Lootas, then use them to their maximum effectiveness. Otherwise, sub them out and use something else - less expensive boyz. If you want a foot slogging army, shoota boyz are your best friend. Screen them with a line of gretchin and everyone has a 4+ cover save except the gretchin who...we don't care about. 29 Gretchin, 2 runtherders: 107 points. Good price to pay for a cover save for your army. Make sure you tack in a powerklaw in every squad.

Alternatively, make as many squads of boyz as you can and stick them into trukks. Battlewagon with Nobs and a Warboss or Ghazghkull. Mechanized ork fury! See what I mean? There's a lot of combinations that you can do, and all of them are brutally effective. However, you have to pick ONE route and go with it; you can't mix and match strategies. Orks are weak compared to pretty much EVERYTHING else out there - they make up for this with numbers. So pick something that you think is the way you want to play and invest in that route fully.

Screen with kanz is even better toss in a Big mek with KFF and everything has a 4+ cover save then just walk up to your enemy and whop his ass.

Dashofpepper wrote:Again, you're caught in the "bit of everything" mentality.

How is it wrong for me to assume you all proposed I keep the core mobs? WHY WOULD YOU SUGGEST COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ARMY LISTS? I assumed you wanted me to think "in that mentality" in that case.

Jesus, why not just suggest playing from the Chaos codex if we're trying to give me irrelevant advice. I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt and you chastise me for it.

Orks can make a gunline or a shooty army to make Tau cower. You can also make an assault army to make tyranids cower. You can make a mechanized list, a green tide...there's a lot of things you can do with Orks. But you can't do them ALL at the same time. Any particular army list has to take one element and maximize it.

Conceding this point, how does my current list not convey that? I'm not taking "one-of's"; I have over 150 models in a central line closing in on the enemy's deployment zone in traditional ork fashion. I did not take small squads so I could take more cool bits, but so that I could deal with more threats by only making each tool effective as it needed to be. So 9 instead of my normal 12-14 because it was effective enough, not because I wanted to squeeze in that super-cool lobba unit.

If you were to stick 3 Loota squads into battlewagons, you're no longer talking about an assault army, you're making a shooty army. 3 squads of Lootas in mobile bunkers that have their OWN huge guns. Attach a couple of shokk attack guns in there if you like. A couple of Deff Dreads or Killakannon squads with ranged weaponry. Tack in whatever free points you have to get as many shoota boyz as you can, and those are your mobile firepower. 30 boyz at Assault 2 is 60 shots...someone's gonna lose some models, and you hold such vast fire superiority at this point that you can annihilate pretty much anything (although you're going to be weak against mechanized stuff, especially Land Raiders - that's what powerklaws are for)

That's one potential army combination. If you're going to use Lootas, then use them to their maximum effectiveness.

You're saying Lootas should not be used in a footslogging list, but instead in gunline armies? Why must I purposefully neuter myself with redundancy when I can cover my advance with 250pts? I don't see how their effectiveness is lost if they're not flanked by other shooty units. They're easier to kill, yes, inherently that is true. So they aren't effective as long as a unit stuck in a battlewagon. But I don't see why I should restrict them to gunline armies. I'm open to beefing/combining them but I just don't see the contradiction.

Otherwise, sub them out and use something else - less expensive boyz.

I have maxed troops choices.

If you want a foot slogging army, shoota boyz are your best friend.

True, but there will be times that the boyz will need to get stuck in. IMO, having some core slugga mobs with shoota flankers allow each mob to do what each does best. Sluggas, get stuck in together, and shootas support by fire and assault. I certainly might need those power klaws though, it must be said.

Screen them with a line of gretchin and everyone has a 4+ cover save except the gretchin who...we don't care about. 29 Gretchin, 2 runtherders: 107 points. Good price to pay for a cover save for your army. Make sure you tack in a powerklaw in every squad.

Thanks for the tip, but as you'll see they're already included. The way I spread out my boyz I can manage covering two mobs without a serious expenditure of points. And with the spare points spent on a grot-prod later on, they might just actually kill something.

Alternatively, make as many squads of boyz as you can and stick them into trukks. Battlewagon with Nobs and a Warboss or Ghazghkull. Mechanized ork fury! See what I mean? There's a lot of combinations that you can do, and all of them are brutally effective.

I'm asking for advice on an army list or variants thereof. Usually people makes suggestions that can be applied to the current army. Asking me to drop this for a KoS army or some radically different list is the same as suggesting a different army codex. It's obvious my theme is "da green tide" so let's build around that.

However, you have to pick ONE route and go with it; you can't mix and match strategies. Orks are weak compared to pretty much EVERYTHING else out there - they make up for this with numbers. So pick something that you think is the way you want to play and invest in that route fully.

I already have picked a route. I'm not in dakka discussion asking which army I should start. I'm in the army lists section, suggesting that I probably have a significant portion of these models, or very intent on building in this direction.

It's silly to be defensive in this sort of thread, but you're busting my chops over mostly irrelevant things. There's no rule that says my thread can't be hijacked, but I still would prefer the topic be critiquing army lists I have proposed.

The biggest critiques I've seen so far that I'm mulling over are:
Loota size,
Squad size in General,
Power Klaws

All which I will probably heed to some degree. Curiously though, no-one's knocked the lobbas yet.

Headquarters= Big Mek (KFF) >85
Elites= 9 Lootas (Deffguns) >135
Elites= 9 Lootas (Deffguns) >135
Elites= 11 Kommandos (Snikrot, 2 Burnas) >225
Troops= 19 Grots & 1 Runtherd (Grot-Prod) >72
Troops= 27 Shoota Boyz >162
Troops= 27 Shoota Boyz >162
Troops= 27 Shoota Boyz >162
Troops= 30 Slugga Boyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw) >215
Troops= 30 Slugga Boyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw) >215
Fast Attack= 11 Stormboyz (Nob w/ Power Klaw & Bosspole) >172
Heavy Support= 3 Big Gunz (Lobbas, 5 Additional Crew, 3 Ammo Runts, Runtherd) >109

Total Points: 1,849

I like your list. It's always fun to put a huge number of boyz on the table and throw down. The stormboyz are the right size IMO - I've taken large (20) and small (10-12) and they seem to perform about the same - one turn of devestating charging and then they are done for, might as well be smaller numbers. If you have the models, I might suggest taking some buggies instead of the stormboyz - skorcha buggies are really really nasty with the 5th edition rules.

Lobbas: I don't like lobbas personally. If I take big gunz I take single units of kannons with an ammo runt. But I read your reasons for lobbas over kannons so what I'll say instead is - drop the lobbas and take a dread or 2 KK's instead. You have plenty of shooting already, but very weak when it comes to busting any type of tank - especially AR14. What do you plan on doing if a LR pulls up near you? You've got 3 pks in the whole list with a max of S9. I've beat on LRs for several turns and never got anything better then an immoblised. Which if it is sitting on an objective doesn't really help you much. Take the walkers instead, walk them up with the boyz/KFF (they can run too). The problem of course is that with those being the only armour in your army, the enemy can just fire at them exclusively with AT fire. 4+ helps though...

For your troops: 5 large mobs of boyz is a lot. More then you need IMO, especially since you're sacrificing pks to do it. Think about this: drop one unit of shootas, put pks+nobs in the other two shoota squads, add another unit of grots. Now you can leave one unit of grots sitting in front of your lootas (hopefully holding an objective also or near enough that they can run to one in one turn) and the other can do what grots do best and die nobly for the orks moving foward. This leaves you with 31 points - add 2 more lootas.

Hopefully those suggestions aren't too far off your theme, but I think they will improve the odds of your army winning.

like the army list