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I am planning on finishing an IG army for the new codex, but would like to play in tournaments which IG currently not so good at.

One obvious problem is kill points, but the way I see it either the new codex will fix it or it won't (as rumored) and there isn't much players can do about it.
For objective missions, somehow you have to get across the board to at least contest objectives while guarding your own. Transports are expensive, deep striking unreliable (or unusable for troops per rumors), and you need about double the squads of others to hold it.
An odd point is that IG have trouble holding their own objectives now, since most everyone can deep strike/flank/turboboost or just take the fire and still hit the lines. Once enemy units are in your lines, guard can tarpit, but cant effectively kill major CC units, which is needed to own an objective rather than contest. T5 Ogryns wont be enough I think.

So overall what can IG do to be competitive?

PS: Mostly I am looking at for the new codex, even though its not final. Not wishlisting, tactics.

I don't play IG, and I don't know the new codex, but I can offer a general guidance to help you figure it out...

What kind of army do you want to play? Ranged? Armored? massed firepower? A lot of different IG configurations that I've come up against are effective - it depends on you.

Small units working in tandem, and using principles of warfare - you'll be fine.

IG is competitive, you just have to play them well.

A friend of mine beat a tournament with an IG army with three massacres, and two of the missions involved KPs.

tabling opponents is a guardsman's best friend. Giving up any forms of mobility, utility, or coolness for the explicit purpose of 'MOAR GUNZ HURR'. Besides, any units that DO hit your lines are very rarely a serious threat, as you trade 10 guardsman for 4+ flamer hits depending on the point totals, as well as whatever else you need to throw into them to table them. Gretchin are the only unit in the game I wouldn't gladly exchange 10 guardsmen for

Depending on the enemy, guard aren't always insta-lose for KP. If you face mech tau, for example, you're not really all that bad off. Devilfish=2 KP when you're packing a bajillion autocannons and lascannons, and fire warriors quickly chased off the table even by lasgun fire. Certain builds of marines or dark eldar (mostly mech, tbh) aren't too difficult to compete with in KP missions either.

Things like footslogging orks, mech eldar, and nidzilla are often going to mangle you for KP though. Particularly when you're looking at a 20KP army for you, and a 10 KP army for him.

willydstyle wrote:IG is competitive, you just have to play them well.

A friend of mine beat a tournament with an IG army with three massacres, and two of the missions involved KPs.

What kind of tournament? The general consensus I get, especially on these forums, is IG is currently at the bottom for competition, as in GTs, ect, which is different than local RTT. For example how do IG deal with a good Daemons army or nobz bikers? I am not saying they can't win, but lets assume that who you are playing also play their army well.

bottom of the heap? Tau and Necron pretty much tie for that spot.

IG have MUCH more flexibility than either of those armies in what you can do, in terms of both mixing firepower and using different doctrines to achieve different tactical results.

To be competitive with IG, you have to do this:

1. Decide HOW you want to play and what your playstyle is.

2. Decide what units in what mix are best suited to that theme.

3. Test your army and tweak it to include counters for things you might encounter.


There are "stereotype" IG armies that are successful. Want to try one? Make a drop troop army. Couple of demolishers or Leman Russ Battletanks start on the table and the rest of the frikkin' army deep strikes. Nob bikers? So what if they have 3+ cover saves for turbo-boosting. You can stick a heavy flamer in each one and now they have no cover save and no armour save. Whoop-ti-do.

That's a playstyle that suits some; others like making huge gunlines that are lascannon heavy. Completely depends on your playstyle.

Gestalt wrote:

willydstyle wrote:IG is competitive, you just have to play them well.

A friend of mine beat a tournament with an IG army with three massacres, and two of the missions involved KPs.

What kind of tournament? The general consensus I get, especially on these forums, is IG is currently at the bottom for competition, as in GTs, ect, which is different than local RTT. For example how do IG deal with a good Daemons army or nobz bikers? I am not saying they can't win, but lets assume that who you are playing also play their army well.

A RTT series in California where I think the top 5-6 players are regular GT attendees. Daemons I could definitely see Guard having a problem with, as they ARE one of the top armies right now, but between demolisher, battle, and earthshaker cannons I think nob bikers are not as much of a threat for guard, especially if you have a bunch of lascannon on the field as well. Yes, that nob biker unit is very, very likely to kill one unit per turn as long as it's alive, but it's also never going to be engaged during the shooting phase, as any guard unit it hits will simply melt.

A good daemon list that gets luck is a bear for IG.


With all of the deepstriking armies out there, I am more and more convinced that most IG armies should invest in a Inquisitor and 2 mystics.


IG has always been about trimming the fat, trying to squeeze as much firepower into a list with *just* enough mobility to take objectives (or at least contest some). 5ed has only made doing that all the more important since in a KP mission, you will most likely only win if you table your opponent.

I agree about the Inquis/mystics, though I'm not sure if to kit them out or not. The elite with 2 mystics is only 32 points, possibly with targeter and/or tarot.
But since he is giving the free shots away there isnt a need to gear him for shooting besides fire support. Its another 100 points to add a psycannon, plasma cannon, and a couple sages.

Edit: Probably should add a Psychic Hood too

Inquisitor Lord, 3 Mystics, Psychic Hood, Land Raider optional.

This unit performs very well in IG armies. It counters two big weaknesses, being Psychic stuff and First Strike DS units. I consider it a 'must - have'.

What else is must have these days? I have had poor experience with using guard to soak up CC units. Do you need a counter charge to get CC units out of the lines/away from objectives? or is the solution still to throw more men at it?

Well, the multiple flamer counter attack squad got a boost in 5th edition. Now that all the templates are added and resolved together, you can get a crapload of str 4 hits on someone after they bunch up to assault/slaughter one of your squads.

That's also a potential use for that Inq and retinue...give him an incinerator and a storm trooper or two with flamers. Place in a rhino so they can zip to wherever is needed (assuming you have other armor, of course)....good response unit.

I think if I was going to give the Inq more weapons it would be for ranged. They will still probably get charged by whatever is left from flamers, and they arent that good at CC. I think a platoon command with 4 flamers in a chimera is cheaper and more expendable. And when they do get charged, they will probably all die first round so the enemy isnt locked in your shooting phase.

Is there a good use for sentinels, or is it just more kill points? Flanking Autocannon or drop troop heavy flamers seem decent but 50/40 pts? Good for contesting perhaps? Cheaper than giving infantry chimeras and not risking moving tanks close to enemy.

I dont know the points but the new spearhead sentinel with AV11 and heavier weapons(plasma cannon!) could be useful, but they lose scout.

yea ig arent to good in cc. 1 thing that i have found to work with that problem is kitting up a command squad and adding a character (guant is my choice) and using it as a counter charge unit. its not perfect but i works if you roll wellenough

I dont think a command squad can even dent some of the CC units these days, and they dont have the wounds to tarpit. T5 Ogryns might be good, but I havent done the math to see how well they work.

Competitive?

Well, for that, they really need a new codex that delas with their current KP issues. Until then, they are in trouble.

Sure, they can do great in objective based games, but KP missions kill them..their only chance is to table their oppponent.

Yes you can add in an =I= with a Landraider to an IG army...but then it really isn't an IG army. Firstly, that's a lot of points which doesn't leave that much room for other stuff. Secondly, it only demonstrates why the IG need a new codex fast. When people have to start "borrowing" units from other books just to compete, that is a clear indicator that the book needs a rewrite in the worst way. Sourclams does speak the truth though if you want to take the IG to a tournament and be competitive. You will need some form of psychic defense. Anti deepstriking defense can come from using Mystics, but there are other ways of countering deepstriking units and armies. Psychic defense is probably top on your list of things to build into your list.

Capt K

I dont think a land raider is really necessary, it doesnt fill any role the IG cant do already. The only useful thing would be if could be used by ogryns for counter assault, but it cant. Counter charge is the big thing that IG have to borrow for aside from the hood.
It looks like Ogryns will be T5 3W 4+ without FNP from what I have read. Possibly with furious charge. My worry is that they cant cause enough wounds (lack of PW, low I) to win a combat, and since they probably arent fearless will run and get wiped out(again low I). Hopefully a bone'ead or commissar upgrade can help with that.

Well Imperial Guard are probably going to be getting strength 10 lascannons, strength 9 meltaguns from orders. They can merge their platoons into huge units to reduce killpoints. They get powerful new tank variants including a leman russ variant that gets 29 strength 5 shots. They can get a special character that lets all of those platoons infiltrate (for a cost? mkoll didn't say)

volair wrote:Well Imperial Guard are probably going to be getting strength 10 lascannons, strength 9 meltaguns from orders. They can merge their platoons into huge units to reduce killpoints. They get powerful new tank variants including a leman russ variant that gets 29 strength 5 shots. They can get a special character that lets all of those platoons infiltrate (for a cost? mkoll didn't say)

Merging platoons probably isnt like that at all, and wouldn't be a good idea anyway since they can all run/sweeping advance together too. The Punisher is not a good tank, unless its cheaper than a normal LR. Infiltrate doesnt help with the major problems.

How are IG going to beat CC armies, with all the deep strike/summon/land raider/open topped that are practically guaranteed to get units into CC? Bigger guns doesnt help when they cant fire.

Gestalt wrote:

volair wrote:Well Imperial Guard are probably going to be getting strength 10 lascannons, strength 9 meltaguns from orders. They can merge their platoons into huge units to reduce killpoints. They get powerful new tank variants including a leman russ variant that gets 29 strength 5 shots. They can get a special character that lets all of those platoons infiltrate (for a cost? mkoll didn't say)

Merging platoons probably isnt like that at all, and wouldn't be a good idea anyway since they can all run/sweeping advance together too. The Punisher is not a good tank, unless its cheaper than a normal LR. Infiltrate doesnt help with the major problems.

How are IG going to beat CC armies, with all the deep strike/summon/land raider/open topped that are practically guaranteed to get units into CC? Bigger guns doesnt help when they cant fire.

The punisher is in fact a good tank. You can do some basic math to see this.

Infiltration is very powerful, it gets you closer and it lets you choose favourable terrain.

Nothing wrong with big platoon units. They have so much firepower that assaulters take heavy casualties before they charge

How do you beat CC armies? Simple, shoot at them.