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This should be interesting.

HQ

Pedro Kantor
Master of the Forged

ELITE

Ironclad w/Heavy Flamer, Melta, Drop Pod
Ironclad w/Heavy Flamer, Melta, Drop Pod
Ironclad w/Heavy Flamer, Melta, Drop Pod

TROOPS

(10)Tactical Marines-flamer, Missle, combi-flamer, Drop Pod
(5)Scouts w/Shotguns
(5)Scouts w/Shotguns

FAST

Landspeeder Storm w/MM
Landspeeder Storm w/MM

HEAVY

Ironclad w/Heavy Flamer, Melta, Drop Pod
Ironclad w/Heavy Flamer, Melta, Drop Pod
Ironclad w/Heavy Flamer, Melta, Drop Pod

=1850

I think if I feel like doing drop pods this will probably be what I do....

3 dreads and Pedro's tacticals or a simple 4 Dreads dropping in on turn 1 ....yes, I believe the enemy army will be deploying in reserves.

Lots of kill points here, but all the vehicles are either armour 12+ or too fast to get a hold on. Also, you cannot win kill point missions if you get tabled! (Hard to table some armies sure, but a dual bikernob list could easily get SMACKED by this I think.)

Pedro and MoF Drop down with Tacticals to Keep Pedro close to all of the Ironclads giving them all an add'l HtH combat attack. Ironclads with A:3/4....nasty.

Speeders load up the scouts to keep them out of harms way and ready to score late-game after arriving from reserves. Scout on the speeders also opens up some interesting possibilities for turn 1 heavy armour popping or outflanking late in the game. Being fast skimmers that you cannot block from coming onto the board, outflanking may still be useful.

Not only should this be able to fight BikerNob lists fairly effectively...its largely immune to Lash.

melta's ahve 12 inch range. flamers less. You move 6 inches that's effective 18 inch range. Stuff even bothering about those dreads, as an ork nob biker force I'd avoid them and take out the juicy troops and your juicy HQ's. Then with them slaughtered I'd move in and annihilate your dreads. 1850 pts means I have 350 points to mess around with. Lets spam Loota's and blow those Dreads away at range. Split them up so they are at opposite ends of the deployment zone and you either go for one or the other and then are stranded.

The list ain't doing crap to a Nob Biker army, not even when you trim it to 1,500pts.

You want tod eal with them? Play Tyranids. Take some genestealers, tyrants and tyrant guard and carnifexes and give them all Implant Attack. Cause a single unsaved wound and look here, that = 2 wounds on that model, 1 dead nob per successful unsaved wound youc ause = by-passing cheaty rules allocation abuse.

You want at the least that scout character and a missile launcher and then you're gonna target the painbioy with his shots and take that chap out first to eliminate FnP to make your job a heck of alot easier.

Auretious Taak.

Auretious Taak wrote:melta's ahve 12 inch range. flamers less. You move 6 inches that's effective 18 inch range. Stuff even bothering about those dreads, as an ork nob biker force I'd avoid them and take out the juicy troops and your juicy HQ's. Then with them slaughtered I'd move in and annihilate your dreads. 1850 pts means I have 350 points to mess around with. Lets spam Loota's and blow those Dreads away at range. Split them up so they are at opposite ends of the deployment zone and you either go for one or the other and then are stranded.

You must've missed the fact that the entire army is in drop pods. I'm not sure how orks are staying at range...especially when you've got so many pods....you can corral them.

How are you going to get to the juicy troops and Hq to kill them when they're in close proximity to the dreads?

Loota's arent a threat, if they start on the board...drop close with anything and get them in HtH on turn 2...then the expensive lootas do nothing but die. Start in reserves? get them with a drop later in the game. Loota's can only glance the dreads anyway at armour 13 so I'm not seeing the loota's as being much of a threat actually.

Minus pedro, adding in mutli-melta attack bikes, this is my current marine army I'm playing for all intensive purposes. Our troop selections are a bit different as well.

Keep in mind ironclads have 3 attacks base already with 2ccw's, so they bump to 4 base, 5 on the charge with pedro. Rather nasty. I also run dual heavy flamer instead for more anti-horde ability.

Personnally, I'd rather have 4 MM attack bikes than a +1 attack bubble from pedro, but thats my taste.

Without pedro, but with the Ironclads (as they are really the army) how has it been working out for you? Well?

Problem with kill points?

Enough Objective takers?

I have a version of this list for a while also, but with a different take.

MOF + 2 servitors (repairs dreads on a 2+)

6 x Ironclads with 2 hk missiles each

3 x 10 troop marines w/ missile + meltagun

3 attack bikes
3 mm attack bikes

The Ironclads are strong enough to walk up on their own with the MOF behind to repair them as they go. The 12 HK missiles are a wonderful first turn alpha strike especially against enemy skimmers and then they can run up each turn after that. 30 troops can do whatever and the 2 units of attack bikes..... well I just like attack bikes in 5th edition.

I find the list extremely powerful especially against the current top tournament lists. It eats Nob Bikers, Assault Terminators, Ork Horde, and Chaos Lash. The biggest trouble it has is against Nidzilla.

My list has performed quite well, i find it has the tools for most anything I hit against.

My MM attack bikes do the anti-tank role I need them for when I don't want dreads dicking around with land raiders.

My KP really aren't that bad, I use 2 rhinos with 10 tacticals each, and 1 squad of camo cloak scouts in the fortified cover provided by the MOF (so a 2+ cover save, ala eldar path finders). They sit on the home objective, 2 mobile tactical units that are largely ignored due to impending dread-death do just fine.

My kp is...14, not so bad when everything's pretty tough to kill in the list.

My MOF just scoots around on a bike behind the dreads fixing things or not doing much, I don't use servitors as unlike darth i ended up dropping the HK spam (which I love) so I'm always moving full speed/running, and if you take servitors they move 6 inches, so your MOF just cant keep up with the dreads to be in BTB at the start of the shooting phase.

I like it personnally, I proxied it a few times, working well, now I'm building my ironclad convesions, which are incredibly time consuming, but will have articulated hands, about an inch taller than a dread, and bulked up.

More like a warjack from warmachine then a gw lunchbox dread, which I've never been a fan of.

Forgot to mention, my list is 1750 as well, not 1850

I dont think I can build this list until the actual Ironclad comes out however.

It just irks me when GW comes out with a new model after I complete an army. Hopefully the Ironclad will come out soon after I complete my "toolbox" list.

(10)Tactical Marines-flamer, Missle, combi-flamer, Drop Pod
(5)Scouts w/Shotguns
(5)Scouts w/Shotguns

The group of scoring units is a bit small. This could become a gamble in games with securing objectives.

I been talking with targetawg about this list.

Not a fan of Speeders period av10 is too easy to shake, stun and they blow pretty easily.

Multi melta attack bikes are cheaper and can hide easier.

Replace the land speeder storms with Multimelta attack bikes and use the points to give your scouts camo cloaks and sit them in cover on your objective with sniper rifles.

As others stated Kantor for the +1 attack bubble is really nice but 2 HQs is a bit expensive at 1750 maybe should get more troops and maybe some more multimelta attack bikes with the points instead.

As a specific "I have a friend who plays nob bikers" list, I'm sure this would do fine.

I don't think the author is trying to build a competitive list - it has a *LOT* of obvious weaknesses. But for a specific nob-biker killing list, I think it would do ok.

i like it, but ironclad spam isnt great.
yes, biker nobz will struggle, but most basic ork lists will do fine.

boarding plank attacks from nobz in trukks work well against them.
deff koptas with TL rokkitz also work well.
basic kannons should do more than a dent.
loota spam will hurt em badly.

dont expect the drop pods to stop your army getting over run by a tide of orks either.

could allways spam a list with 5 deff dreadz or 2 deff dreadz + 9 kanz, but that isnt as fun

Never had a problem with Ork horde.

A Nob with klaw has a 8% of destoying the Ironclad in a boarding plank attack. Otherwise the Dread will meltagun the trukk and assault the hapless Orks who come out.

Deffkoptas have a 3% of destroying an Ironclad from shooting.

Basic kannons have a 3% chance of destroying an Ironclad.

15 Lootas have a 25% of immobilising an Ironclad, however the MOF has an 86% of fixing it the very next turn.

I'm sorry but I don't think basic Orks have a chance in hell against Ironclad spam.

Indeed, my list sports 12 heavy flamers on the ironclads, and 4 regular flamers on my marines.

Ork horde is a non issue really.

The best it can hope for is to get into combats and bog down the ironclads, which will eventually wear down the unit of boyz, which, btw, costs much more than an ironclad (mine come in at 150 each)

yeah having to deep strike every thing and hope that

you don't land far far away from your destination.

imho it won't work!

As was said, me and shane run a bit differently, all of my IC's are on foot, no deepstriking

I'd make two changes --

First, give at least half of the pods Locator Beacons. Take full advantage of deep strike rules letting you pick half of them to come in on the first turn to better set up exact drops later.

Second, upgrade at least half of those Meltas on the 'clads to Heavy Flamers. Reason being, the Melta is only really going to be more effective than the HF if you're shooting a vehicle that's already within charge range of your Seismic Hammer. Popping transports and assaulting the carried squads is the only place you'll see a dramatic advantage to the Melta, in almost all other cases it's less effective (the HF only has to touch 3 marines in the *open* to outdamage the Melta, only 2 in 4+ cover. Anything T4 and less than a 3+ armor save and the HF is killier with *one* touch).

Then with that many HFs on the board, I'd look at Vulkan over Pedro.

Now, this should be taken with a grain of salt as I'm still assembling my Vulkan/Ironclad army, but still -- a 6" Melta shot isn't really a must have on a model with a 6" charge range and 4 (or 5, with Pedro) S10 +1 to vehicle damage attacks.

Lowinor wrote:I'd make two changes --

First, give at least half of the pods Locator Beacons. Take full advantage of deep strike rules letting you pick half of them to come in on the first turn to better set up exact drops later.

Using locator beacons to help land other inertia-guidence system equiped drop pods is really a bit of a waste.

Id agree on perhaps changing two ironclads to full-h.flamer load outs but bare in mind that a str5 weapon isnt too shabby against AV10, its not redundant atleast if your already shooting at it with a melta weapon. It can also be quite effective against squadrens or/and aiming at a vehicle but positiong your dred so that - after positioning the template on the tank so it cover as much hull as possible (as per BGB template rules) - you get as many troops as possible.

Pedro could work well with ironclads, I can see that.. but he seems to be more of a bolt-on extra rather than an intergral part of the list, like the MotF is or those speedy speeders to compliement the leathally short ranged ironclads.

Another note - with that many dred.. at risk of showing of rear armor.. you can drop them strategically so that atleast for one vehicle (if it was a pivotal Landraider full of termies + a HQ for example) is vunerable to a dred-charge reguardless of where it moves.

Razerous wrote:Using locator beacons to help land other inertia-guidence system equiped drop pods is really a bit of a waste.

Not when you're trying to hit something with flamers.

Lowinor wrote:

Razerous wrote:Using locator beacons to help land other inertia-guidence system equiped drop pods is really a bit of a waste.

Not when you're trying to hit something with flamers.

You land next to them. You scatter 12", you still should be in range (just?) with the templates.

People wont hang around next to locator beacons.

Looking at my lash list, then looking at this list, I fail to see how I should be scared at all. I have a huge mobility advantage (you drop pod, then you're slow whereas my Princes and transports all move 12"), as well as a huge range advantage (6 Oblits), and 21 melta weapons (6 from PM units, 3 from Rhinos, 6 from termie units, 6 from oblits). Good luck having any of your Ironclads stay close enough to be a threat for more than a turn. They won't make combat trying to trundle through 18 meltas. And then you have 2 land speeders trying to protect your 10 scouts, and a tactical squad. LAsh will eat that tactical squad quickly, and its only a matter of time before the speedesr get caught by lascannons or deep striking meltas. It may be immune to the Lash of Submission power, but a good Lash list will be more than capable of smashing armor that gets close to it, which is exactly what your Ironclads need to do if they want to be even a mild threat. I feel like my lash list is more in the mediocre range than a "good" version of it too.

I do however see how this list can bring the hurt on something like Nob Bikes. PKs at str8 can bring the Ironclads down eventually, but it most likely will not happen quick enough once combat happens (1/6 hits will pen, then 1/3 of pens will kill it, so 18 hits to kill 1 ironclad with a str8 klaw on average). With like 2-3 Ironclads smashing into the Nob units at the sme time, there will be a lot of dead Nobs and probably not even 1 dead Ironclad. What are Lootas going to do against AV13 Ironclads except cause a tiny amount of glancng hits before getting smashed by CC. The str10 PKs coming from the Warbosses are really the only scary things there, or it could be bad if the Nob Bikes charge you (they probbly will too) since they'll get str9 PK attacks so they only need 9 hits to kill an Ironclad on average).

PS: I miss the Gary Busey avatar

A'ight, I have to disagree here. Note that while as I said I'm still assembling my 5e Drop Pod heavy Salamanders, I played most of 4e with a Drop Pod only Space Wolves list.

Razerous wrote:

Lowinor wrote:

Razerous wrote:Using locator beacons to help land other inertia-guidence system equiped drop pods is really a bit of a waste.

Not when you're trying to hit something with flamers.

You land next to them. You scatter 12", you still should be in range (just?) with the templates.

"Just" in range with the templates means 1-2 touches per template weapon; an exact hit means several multiples of it (depending on what you're shooting with them, of course!). It's especially important with templates since there's a real difference between "just" in range and optimally positioned. I used Flamers a good bit in my SW list, primarily as a result of determining it was the best use of the special weapon option in a Blood Claws squad due to it automatically hitting and it being cheaper than the BS3-in-an-assault-squad options. Most times I scattered on landing, I got 0-2 with the flamer, but if I rolled a hit, it could cause damage. The 'clad, however, has a much deadlier template weapon, and a few 10 point beacons is fairly cheap to ensure it hits something.

People wont hang around next to locator beacons.

They'll have a rough time avoiding it.

Assuming pods are 6" diameter cylinders (to keep the math easy), from the center of a pod with beacon, you get a circle of radius:


3" to edge of pod
+6" beacon effectiveness range
+6" diameter of the next pod that lands
+2" deployment range
+1" (minimum) base diameter of model with the template weapon
+8" length of the template itself

= 26" effective radius that you can land a template unerringly on from a single pod with beacon

Seeing as how a standard table is 72" x 48", you can literally flame both long board edges from a pod dropped in the center of the board.

It's not particularly easy to stay far away enough from a beacon-equipped pod for it to matter.

Oh, and yes, Drop Pods aren't particularly difficult to kill, and your opponent can shoot them down and deny you the benefit of the beacons.

In that case, though, you're still spending a mere 10 points to make an empty transport a high priority target, which is useful in and of itself.

And Drop Pods, while not hard to kill, aren't exactly easy to kill either. You still need a S6 weapon to even glance them, largely relegating their destruction to the hands of either dedicated anti-vehicle or dedicated assault units.

Beacons are just really, really good for the points.

The issue with your above math is that pods are not even close to 6 inches in diameter

I'm not even sure they're THREE inches in diameter

I agree its almost impossible to avoid a locator beacon bringing in a flamer, however stating you can shoot from board edge to board edge is pretty extreme.

And anyone who tries to drop the "feet" or pieces of the pod that open up and deepstrike off those should be slapped, I don't think I've seen anyone try it, but I know folks have tried it with doors/hatches on tanks opening up and then using that to extend deployment.

DarthDiggler wrote:Never had a problem with Ork horde.

A Nob with klaw has a 8% of destoying the Ironclad in a boarding plank attack.

Explain this to me?

Ironclad has front armor of 13? A nob dropping a boarding plank on your dread is going to have 4 attacks at Strength 9. Your weaponskill is 4?

So the Nob has 4 attacks, needing 4s to hit, 4s to glance, 5-6 to penetrate and 5-6 to destroy it.

So 4 attacks, each with a 50% chance of hitting.
Each attack has a 33% chance of penetrating.
Each penetrating attack has a 33% chance of destroying the Ironclad.

Does all that come out to 8%?

it is a 20% chance

targetawg wrote:The issue with your above math is that pods are not even close to 6 inches in diameter

I'm not even sure they're THREE inches in diameter

I agree its almost impossible to avoid a locator beacon bringing in a flamer, however stating you can shoot from board edge to board edge is pretty extreme.

And anyone who tries to drop the "feet" or pieces of the pod that open up and deepstrike off those should be slapped, I don't think I've seen anyone try it, but I know folks have tried it with doors/hatches on tanks opening up and then using that to extend deployment.

Apologies, you're correct -- they're not cylindrical, but while their internal diameter is around 3", a hull-to-hull measurement can extend the effective diameter a bit, something like 4" is more realistic.

Given 4" pods, though, you're still looking at 2" (pod radius) + 6" (locator beacon range) + 4" (pod diameter) + 2" (deployment range) + 1" (infantry model) + 8" template = 23" range. Put that flamer on a dread with a 2" diameter model, and you're still getting up to a 24" range -- enough to hit both long edges from a centrally placed pod.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Explain this to me?

Ironclad has front armor of 13? A nob dropping a boarding plank on your dread is going to have 4 attacks at Strength 9. Your weaponskill is 4?

So the Nob has 4 attacks, needing 4s to hit, 4s to glance, 5-6 to penetrate and 5-6 to destroy it.

So 4 attacks, each with a 50% chance of hitting.
Each attack has a 33% chance of penetrating.
Each penetrating attack has a 33% chance of destroying the Ironclad.

Does all that come out to 8%?

.5x.33x.33=.05445.

So, no, it comes out to 5.4%

Wait, pardon, that's on a single attack.
The new math is
4x.5x.33x.33=.2178, or 22% rounded.