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Has anyone ever tried using formations or strategy from real wars??

dont know any myself but i think the thought is cool.let me know what you think.

It's essentially suicide, unless by "real" you mean rubbing vaseline on your glasses and squinting real hard. Warhammer 40k is a beer and pretzels game with only a passing resemblance to reality. Not to say that there aren't strategies and tactics, just that they're local to the game system, and not generalizable from actual conflict.

Yes.

Well, sort of.

I use principles of real military theory all the time. But you have to apply those principles to the rules of 40K and the IgoUgo turn structure.

Hmm... I'm not sure real war strategy is applicable to 40k really.

Only occasional things like "shoot a tank in the weaker side of it" but you don't need to study real war to know common sense things.

In real wars, there's not really any deep striking. And if you were going to parachute all your troops right on top of the enemy, the enemy would get plenty of time shooting up at you while you're pretty defenseless.

Also, real life isn't turn-based and troops can't shoot backwards. Also, real life generals can't see where every fighter on the entire board is at all times. Squads could go behind you and kill you before you even know they are there.

Then there's also the thing of. In real wars, guns are far more effective than melee combat. You can gun someone down who's a few feet away from you before they have a chance of axe-ing you.

Tau would probably rock in a real war. Just blast away anyone trying to close distance with impuny.

Nurglitch wrote:It's essentially suicide, unless by "real" you mean rubbing vaseline on your glasses and squinting real hard. Warhammer 40k is a beer and pretzels game with only a passing resemblance to reality. Not to say that there aren't strategies and tactics, just that they're local to the game system, and not generalizable from actual conflict.

I would dare say that this mentality is why I win more often than not in 40k, despite my relative newness to the hobby. I was in the Army for 9 years - first as an enlisted infantryman, and then as a commissioned armor officer. I'll use maneuvers right out of the infantry manual (7-8) and I consistently apply principles of warfare on the table.

I agree with Dashofpepper. My usual 40K opponent for years was a rabid fan of military history, and no matter what I did, I only ever beat him once, and if I played the fifth edition of that Eldar list in a tourney I'm sure I would be labeled a master TFG.

In 40K it's not so common, but people use historical maneuvers all the time in WHFB, like Pincer moves and Flank attacks

Dashofpepper wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:It's essentially suicide, unless by "real" you mean rubbing vaseline on your glasses and squinting real hard. Warhammer 40k is a beer and pretzels game with only a passing resemblance to reality. Not to say that there aren't strategies and tactics, just that they're local to the game system, and not generalizable from actual conflict.

I would dare say that this mentality is why I win more often than not in 40k, despite my relative newness to the hobby. I was in the Army for 9 years - first as an enlisted infantryman, and then as a commissioned armor officer. I'll use maneuvers right out of the infantry manual (7-8) and I consistently apply principles of warfare on the table.

Yep, if you understand the principles of modern military theory - especially things like maneuver warfare, MOOSE MUSS, OODA loops, and the like, applying them to any system of conflict - like 40K - makes playing the game almost ridiculously easy.

There are many times when I feel like I'm playing both sides of the table.

i guess there are essential tactics and/ or appropriate maneauvers, but i think it varies with the context if you know wt i'm trying to get at here. For example, if you were to play on a first person shooter, you would learn to use appropriate offense and defense techniques to suit the situation created my the nature of that particular game maybe? And maybe it's the same for 40k, so like everything can be based upon strategy, just in a different context to suit it's nature?

Moreso in WHFB but even in 40k, I am constantly suprised of how effective even basic military maneuvers are effective again and again against event vetran gamers. I think it has more to do with being in the appropriate mindset then knowing the individual strategies. I have also noticed that long time WHFB players that start playing 40k tend to be better at this then many 40k only players, this may have to do with being used to thinking a few turns in advance.

Just for an example...

I can't count the number of times where I've had an opponent line up across the board to maximize their firing coverage of wherever I might deploy, and I've deployed entirely on one flank. They laughed at what a nice template target I make, and then stop laughing as I sweep up one of their flanks.

Battle Drill Alpha works just a well in 40K as it does in real life.

Vehicle shock-mobility-firepower, not so much, but it's conditional.

Real life tactics? Oh, you mean like making sure to take the strongest army available to the field? Yeah, that works. Other things like ambush maneuvers, squad bounding, supply line control, etc. not so much. Flanks, for example, are largely non-existent for infantry.

It's a game, not a sim.

Dashofpepper: I would laugh too when you bunched up. But then again, I would also have had enough templates to make sure you didn't go anywhere and Lash'd anyone that thought otherwise ;-)

In the grim dark future of the 41st millennium there are no tactics only WAR.

i might try some out when i get my new list up and going

A friend i play with uses a lot of old WWI and WWII tactics with his Orks, and it does rather well. Hes Kunnin but Brutal and his Army is Brutal but kunnin. The mix works wonders for Orks.

jmurph wrote:Real life tactics? Oh, you mean like making sure to take the strongest army available to the field? Yeah, that works. Other things like ambush maneuvers, squad bounding, supply line control, etc. not so much. Flanks, for example, are largely non-existent for infantry.

It's a game, not a sim.

Dashofpepper: I would laugh too when you bunched up. But then again, I would also have had enough templates to make sure you didn't go anywhere and Lash'd anyone that thought otherwise ;-)

You say that now, but its not like that in game. Your templates don't stop my 4+ cover saves, and my orks have a 27" assault range - I'm generally in assault before chaos players have the chance to try lashing me.

Out of curiosity, how do you get a 27" assault range in a single turn?

You know that stormboyz can't fleet, right? They're not infantry, they're jump infantry, and the Waagh rule specifies that infantry gets to fleet.

And before you say anything, yes, it does make the Waagh rule useless for stormboyz.

Trukk 13"
Jump out 2" from front of vehicle(about 3" to the front of the base)
Waaagh (using Ghazkgul) 6" fleet move
Hopefully rollling a 6 for assault.

I think this is how it's being done.

13" Vehicle move with Red Paint, 2" Disembark, 6" Waaagh! movement, 6" Assault.

Sure, I lure my foe into a false sense of over confidence, then surprise attack him. I also use deploy and fallback moves. I run a CSM bike unit through the woods detach my chaos lord and summon daemons and GD.the bikes are cover by the assault so they fall fall-back and add fire support. go tank hunting, or contest an objective with an turbo boost move.

Here Is a military rule that wins me a lot of games. Never strike an enemy in a vunerable spot when you can strike in an unexpected one. Why, your enemy may know his vuneralbilities and have a way of protecting it. worse an over apparent weakness my be a lure or bait to trap you. The enemy can never prepare for the unexpected by it's very nature. The puch you never see coming is more dangerous than any other.

Centurian99:

Also, according to the 2007 Ork Errata, the Stormboyz Special Rules on p.47 is incorrect: "The ‘Waaagh!’ special rule should be deleted."

Sarigar wrote:Trukk 13"
Jump out 2" from front of vehicle(about 3" to the front of the base)
Waaagh (using Ghazkgul) 6" fleet move
Hopefully rollling a 6 for assault.

I think this is how it's being done.

D'oh.

Yep, that would do it. Not enough boyz to really get the job done, though, isn't it?

All you need is one PK nob. Oh, and there is never just one unit of truck boyz :(.

Does "run away so they can't shoot me" count as a real war tactic or is that just the Tau way of fighting?



I find most of my 'real war' tactics are exercised in playing Lotr...flanking, luring, target selection, movement, deployment...etc.

I use "real world" tactics in every game, be it 40k or any other table top game. A refused flank is still a refused flank. While enfilade fire doesn't work in 40k given how wounds are allocated, the concept still works as attacking from an oblique angle still reduces the amount of return fire that can reach your units. Cover and obscurement still work, when you use it. Etc.

SJ

Not sure how you think attacking from different angles reduces the amount of return fire the enemy produces. There are no morale rules that reflect suppression or split fire. Displacement in the traditional sense is meaningless as the enemy always knows exactly where you are and won't fire into an empty position.

I think people use game tactics and then claim that they are military tactics simply because you can give them the same name. 40K bears very resemblence to real combat.

I use real world tactics and I do a decent job winning most of the time. I like using ambush and guerrilla tactics. It's amazing how few people realize the trap that's been laid before they're already in it. Most of the time, especially against some of the younger crowd, they don't even know it was a trap to begin with.

I'm a historical battle nut. WWI, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, the multiple Gulf Conflicts, the Napoleonic Wars... You get the idea. I got extended cable just so I could DVR most of the Military channel.

tatcis are fine, but just Blood Claw Spam my way to victory, i got a Unit of Blood Claws (yes they had a Wolf Guard with SS?TH termy armor) into close combat with Lysander, in the end it was numbers that did him in, i got my counter charge, and let me tell you 9PF and 3 Thunder Hammer Attacks pushed his invul save to its max it was a three turn combat i lost once but held my ld and ended up killing him, still having about 5-7 models in the pack left (they had been shot at from a LR crusader, a scout squad and a deva squad with a plasma cannon, losing 2-3 model to begin with* but in the end numbers won out, the Wolves can be very very simple, and i have yet to find an army that can mount an HQ unit that has the option of a twin linked las cannon on it, but that's just me, but yes i can see how real infantry tactics could work in game, and i will have to try this out some time, with some GH covering my BC as they run and normally if the other guy is eager and i get good rolls i can asault by turn 2, by the end of turn 1 i am already half way across the board (12" in to start with, then 6" for move and another 6" if i am lucky for running = 24" a 6x4 4feet = 48" so i already half the board covered) and with a 3+ save they tend to survive a lot of punishment, not to mention i can use a rune priest for mobile cover 5+ invul save in the middle of the open, and if they are assaulted its like assaulting into cover so they attack first, and if they get the counter attack, for the most part 4 attacks per model, even at WS3 against a normal marine they only need 4+ to hit, so a Blood Claw on the charge gets 4 attacks standard gear while a marine with a boltgun only has 2 for charging, well i went a lil over board lol, well as i said i can see how some tactics could work.

Garuss Acine wrote:tatcis are fine, but just Blood Claw Spam my way to victory, i got a Unit of Blood Claws (yes they had a Wolf Guard with SS?TH termy armor) into close combat with Lysander, in the end it was numbers that did him in, i got my counter charge, and let me tell you 9PF and 3 Thunder Hammer Attacks pushed his invul save to its max it was a three turn combat i lost once but held my ld and ended up killing him, still having about 5-7 models in the pack left (they had been shot at from a LR crusader, a scout squad and a deva squad with a plasma cannon, losing 2-3 model to begin with* but in the end numbers won out, the Wolves can be very very simple, and i have yet to find an army that can mount an HQ unit that has the option of a twin linked las cannon on it, but that's just me, but yes i can see how real infantry tactics could work in game, and i will have to try this out some time, with some GH covering my BC as they run and normally if the other guy is eager and i get good rolls i can asault by turn 2, by the end of turn 1 i am already half way across the board (12" in to start with, then 6" for move and another 6" if i am lucky for running = 24" a 6x4 4feet = 48" so i already half the board covered) and with a 3+ save they tend to survive a lot of punishment, not to mention i can use a rune priest for mobile cover 5+ invul save in the middle of the open, and if they are assaulted its like assaulting into cover so they attack first, and if they get the counter attack, for the most part 4 attacks per model, even at WS3 against a normal marine they only need 4+ to hit, so a Blood Claw on the charge gets 4 attacks standard gear while a marine with a boltgun only has 2 for charging, well i went a lil over board lol, well as i said i can see how some tactics could work.

Your sentence structure makes my eyes bleed.