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HQ

Biker Boss w/ Klaw, CB (135)

Big Mek w/ KFF, Burna (105)

TROOPS

"Mork's Angels" 9x Nob Bikers w/ Cybork Bodies, Stikkbomms(619)
--->1x Painboy Biker
--->1x PK, Waaagh! Banner
--->1x PK, Kombi-Skorcha
--->1x PK, Slugga
--->1x Big Choppa, Bosspole
--->1x Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
--->1x Big Choppa, Slugga
--->1x Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
--->1x Choppa, Slugga

"Da 'Ard Nutz" 10x 'Ard Boyz, 1x 'Ard Nob (Joined by Big Mek) (190)
10x Sluggas/Choppas,
Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole
---> Mounted in Trukk w/ Reinfored Ram

"Orkolyte Mob #1" 11x Boyz, 1x Nob (152)
11x Sluggas/Choppas,
Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole
---> Mounted in Trukk w/ Reinfored Ram

"Orkolyte Mob #2" 11x Boyz, 1x Nob (152)
11x Sluggas/Choppas,
Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole
---> Mounted in Trukk w/ Reinfored Ram

"Orkolyte Mob #3" 11x Boyz, 1x Nob (152)
11x Sluggas/Choppas,
Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole
---> Mounted in Trukk w/ Reinfored Ram



Total: 1500

EDITED

How do you guys think this would hold up competitively? How could it be better in your opinions?

You don't have an anvil. You've got a great big sledgehammer, and four ball-peen hammers.

So, metaphors aside..

Sufficently large amount of boys to distract a player from the nobs, large enough to actually pose a threat but obviously small enough to fit in besides a nob biker sqaud.

Take 'eavy armor off of da mek boys.. take of the power klaw for some spare teeth & swap in the trukk for a cheap battlewagon. Those boys are now weaker on foot but your KFF delivery system is now that much more stronger & will work well to tie down any unit that poses a shooty threat to the nobs. Granted w/o the klaw (so maybe take the klaw off of one of the trukk mobs) a mob wont be as leathal but with savings from the 'eavy armor, well worth the battlewagon.

Well, I want the KFF to be able to keep up with what it's protecting i.e. the trukks, also, i'd rather not drop any powerklaws because i rely on my powerklaws for anti armor.

SmoovKriminal wrote:Well, I want the KFF to be able to keep up with what it's protecting i.e. the trukks, also, i'd rather not drop any powerklaws because i rely on my powerklaws for anti armor.

You'd be dropping on PK (and eavy armor on da boyz) to allow for the KFF to be protected by superiour armor & the ability to move 12", unload 2", charge 6" (with a possible fleet from Waaggh!) with your PK wielding nob & 11+ boys. Add in a few boarding planks on your trukks for armor hunting.

Take off the ram and replace it with the red-paint-job (assuming theres no points spare)

I would rather field 60-80 Shoota Boyz than ~40 Slugga Boyz in Trukks. Those will get popped and then, being only 12 of them, they cut and run after just a few casualties. A mob of 20-30, even slogging it, will get where it needs to go because most players spend half the game going after the Bikerz (if they don't, they will be hurting). Try slogging it instead of Trukks and cram in some Lootas if you can. Those are nice for popping light armor and picking off problem units the Bikers can't get to immediately.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:I would rather field 60-80 Shoota Boyz than ~40 Slugga Boyz in Trukks. Those will get popped and then, being only 12 of them, they cut and run after just a few casualties. A mob of 20-30, even slogging it, will get where it needs to go because most players spend half the game going after the Bikerz (if they don't, they will be hurting). Try slogging it instead of Trukks and cram in some Lootas if you can. Those are nice for popping light armor and picking off problem units the Bikers can't get to immediately.

Even if it wasnted intended by the original poster.. that should be the idea. Great, somones aiming a krak-missile at my truck to try and blow it up (woo woo 4+ cover save) which means that same somone isnt trying to instant-kill one of my nobz.

Also all the targets getting cover-saves provides some nice synergy as it prevents an array of obvious targets.

A foot-slogging mob OTOH - reguardless of size - will be targetted by all the small arms fire which is useless against armor and nigh-on useless against the nob bikers. This idea of mounted boys (if thier mounted, sluggas over shootas... although I still suggest a cheap battlewagon & because of that open-toppedness those boys to be shoota boys) provides targets of similiar hardiness although less stamina as the nob bikers but provides multiple more targets.

Yeah I don't like the idea of putting them on foot for two reasons: one mentioned in the above post that by putting them on foot, I am essentially handing the opponent a target to fire their blasts/heavybolters/crowd-thinning gun-fire that would otherwise be wasted against the bikers and not a surefire bet to destroy the trukks either.

The other thing is, I'd like to have the entire army ready to charge turn 2 in 90% of my games. That way even if the boys end up all dying a couple turns later, I hopefully would have done enough structural damage to the enemy in the initial charge that the nobs/boss can just clean up. Razerous, how would you suggest spending the rest of the points on switching the trukk mobs to shoota boys in BWs? I like that idea, but the thing is I'd only realistically have enough points for two squads of boys in BWs.

Eh, to each their own. I run ~60 Shoota Boyz and I almost never see more than 20 go down during any given game. Most of the weapons are pointed at the Nobs, because they demand full attention until dealt with. Of course, I have seen a lot of KoS armies go down fast when their Trukks get popped on the fly. 4+ sounds great, but that is only a 50% chance of not taking the hit, which isn't that hot. And at AV10, they go up fast.

Edited it to fill out the last points and perfect the wound-allocation-ishness of the nob biker squad.

Right.. First off im going to say this is just for a single battlewaggon, keep the other three trukk mounted boys - its a good call and provides MSU to shoot at (well compared to the nobz neways) .

Points wise:

Minus off the ard boys upgrade (4x11) = 44

Minus of Orkolyte #1's power klaw (nessicary to skimp for points) = 25

Minus off one trukk (35+5) = 40

Change all slugga boys to shoota boys = free

Change Orkolyte mob # 2 & 3 ram to borading planks (Idea goes, between those two they can be your mobile anti-walker/tank and the #1 crew + the battlewagon boys can tank shock anything else) = free

Remove combi-skorcha (you cant wield it as the big-choppa = two handed weapon, right?) add in ammo-runt to compensate = +2pts

Total saved = 111pts

Buy one battlewagon = 90pts
+ red paint job = 5pts
+kannon (bear with me on this one - 10
+big shoota - 5

toal point cost = 110pts.

The idea on the weapons is that, with the cannon firing frag shells @ str 4 (counting as defensive weapons) and the wagons big shoota firing as its main weapon you can travel 7" as combat speed shootin with all da boys. First turn you may wanna gun it at 13" but the second you can either slow down to fire & charge, stay in and keep firing or Gun it again at 13" and charge! Gives you the option though. A nice amount of orky fire-power.

The old restriction on what weapons you can take depending on how many hands required is no longer existent, you just can't use two, two-handed weapons in the same phase (or at least combat), so the kombi-skorchas are in. Plus, I prefer them anyway cuz they actually have a good bit of utility and it seems less cheesy than just giving an ammo runt to make them different (can't even use it with the dakka gun because it's twin-linked already).

I'm not so sure about the whole battlewagon thing, because I'd rather keep everything fast, and on the first turn when all the trukks are moving flat out, the BW carrying the KFF is only going 12", so that means I'd likely have to slow the trukks down from moving top speed in order to stay in the protective bubble. Plus, PKs count and I don't want to have to lose one. I would already be keeping the KFF trukk protected by staying behind the other trukks, so the enemy would pretty much have to blow the rest of the trukks out of the way to get to it anyway. Maybe in higher point games I could consider this.

Personally, I think an army focused on speed that employs trukks without red paint is just wrong. WRONG!

Don't worry about your trukks getting popped; you *do* have a hammer and an anvil. Either they'll shoot at your bikes and leave your trukks untouched, or they'll go after your trukks and leave your bikes untouched. Either way, you'll be in assault turn 2.

Well, I tried taking out stuff to fit a Battlewagon, but honestly now that I see it I don't think you need it. I think however that if you take out 'eavy Armour and the Stikkbombs, you can fit the 10th Biker Nob (Slugga/Choppa/Runt), which I think is better bang for your buck since that's what they'll be firing at.

Otherwise keep it as is, it's a good list that isn't the cookie cutter Nob Biker list.

Its a case of how important is the MEK & the KFF. If its concidered an added bonous, somwhere to spend a spare 85pts then cool, go for it. If its integral to the sucess & survial of the trukk boys then that could be warrent for added protection. If its really not needed then with the removal of 'ard boys and the Mek with the KFF, you shoooould be able to fit another Orkolyte style mob (maybe needing another 20-odd points)

I have considered that, actually, razerous. The way I figured it though is that the trukks ARE going to get fired at, especially with the shots that aren't going to do anything to the bikers but will be good at taking out trukks (which is just about everything.) So, I figured 4 trukks that have a 100% better survival rate (which still isn't great but...) is better than 5 with half the survival rate. I mean... 5 would be better if all of the trukks somehow made it, but that very unlikely. Plus, that aside it spares me one KP.

Prophet of Dakka wrote:Well, I tried taking out stuff to fit a Battlewagon, but honestly now that I see it I don't think you need it. I think however that if you take out 'eavy Armour and the Stikkbombs, you can fit the 10th Biker Nob (Slugga/Choppa/Runt), which I think is better bang for your buck since that's what they'll be firing at.

Otherwise keep it as is, it's a good list that isn't the cookie cutter Nob Biker list.

Actually, I think it's just a couple points over, unless you're taking into account games where no one really counts if you're a point over or so... or maybe i'm just messing up my math. I've got -9 for stikkbomms and -44 for 'ard boy upgrade = 53 and a nob on a biker with cybork body an an ammo runt would be 55. I do like the 'ard boys anyway because they add something unique and they add some durability to my KFF big mek which is a pretty key component to the list... PLUS i already bought the black orc models from fantasy to convert because they look so damn cool.

I like the layout of the nobs right now because a) they reach minimum amount to have to take 3 casualties and b) they have a layout that makes sense... everything they are equipped with have some utility that i'm looking for and aren't just in there to take advantage of the wound allocation rule for complex units (although that DOES just happen to coincidentally fit together). Giving a plain biker nob an ammo runt is obviously just taking advantage of a rule loop hole completely because an ammo runt literally does nothing for the nob. At least the kombi-skorchas allow me to effectively deal with pesky units like genestealers that even a powerful unit like nobs don't want to get their boots sticky with. The big choppas are great for dealing with walkers and the powerklaws are there... well... to take care of everything else

FUN BIKER NOB FACT: It would take a guardsman 1574 rounds of shooting to eliminate this squad!

Going by that logic then Smoov, I reckon the Battlewagon will serve you well.

As for fast trukks vs normal 13" move wagons, if you place a few behind the wagon to start with, that one turn of an extra 6" move will still keep everything within 6", if measuring distance from the BW's hull. So that shouldnt be an issue, you'll need to keep most of those trukks grouped neways.

A BW will just distract the enemy alot more than a trukk boyz squad and keep all the other trukks secure (front AV 14 is simply immune to str7 and below!) - a good thing for the nob bikers.

I think you definetely need (in addition to the current/or BW setup) boarding planks for the PK truk nobs.

I came up with a list that goes along with your idea roughly, although you might like it more:

Same as above but instead of 4 trukks it would be 2 battlewagons kitted out with 4 BS, armor plates, riggers, and a deff rolla, one with 19 boys and one with 20 boys, each with a PK nob with bosspole and twin-linked shoota and two big shootas each.

That would have me steam rolling around with 2 nigh impenetrable BW soaking up a lot of shots that could be going towards the biker nobs, while each BW would be dishing out 52 shots a turn and would have vehicle crushing capabilities, all for around the same point cost as above.

I completely and utterly disagree with the ability of the deff-rola to be able to inflict tank-shocking hits against a vehicle which it decides to ram. Thats beside the point and doesnt really change much either-way when you get down to it.

The squad of 19 boys can only take one BS. What do you mean by the twin-linked shoota? The nob only has access to the options listed when bought as an upgrade when part of a boyz squad.

Using all of those four BS in the battlewagons means you'll only be able to travel 0" and will only have a range of 24", 18" for the boys shootas.

If you want to move those tanks a little bit & fire lots get one kannon & one big shoota/lobba/zzap gun as taste permits. Allows you a 6-7" movement & lots of shots.

Otherwise jus get a lone Big shoota, for the damage table reasons & travel as fast as possible.

I prefer the 1 BW & 3 trucks. More boys, fast boys. You have a large range of tieing units down in close combat or busting mobile tanks (with a boardin plank on a trukk) which youve now lost. Max threat range of (if you get red paint job and travel as fast as poss) the battlegons over two turns is 34" D6 more if you Waggh!

The trucks OTOH have a range of 40".

The idea of the battlewagon was basically a token gesture designed to throw the opponent into focousing fire on it while it still travels as fast as it can to assault. Trying to impliement too much dakka I think is unwise.

Word.

The two BSs on the 19 boy squad was taking into account the big mek, i'm not even sure if he can have one though.

The twin-linked shoota is an upgrade you can get for a nob, and it would be the only way for a shoota boy nob to have a shoota, but this is all a null point anyway because you've brought up some valid (and pretty obvious points too, but it is almost 4:30 now here and i've been up way too long.) Thanks for the advice mate.

SmoovKriminal wrote:nob on a biker with cybork body an an ammo runt would be 55.

Ammo runt is +3 pts per model.

Oh, there we go. Anyway, my main point was is that the ammo runt literally does nothing for the nob anyway, so it's basically just taking something abuse a rule in the book.

I updated the list slightly, dropping the grot orderly and the attack squig on the warboss to give the big mek a burna.

Waste. Switch back to the Squig and cut the Burna. I always, always, always want the most attacks out of my Boss in combat. It is vital to push it up as much as you can. Also, drop the Stikk Bombs. Useless equipment, really. If you want to toss on another Big Choppa, just give him a Kombi-Rokkit (if you have some points for it).

I dunno tho, that burna gives the big mek a lot of capability. The thought of doing drive-by flame templates and having 4 s5 power weapon attacks on the charge gets me antsy in the pantsy. It's a tought decision though...

I was thinking about this last night... would this be more effective/competitive than the nob biker unit in all-takers/tournament style setting?

2x 9-man Warbikers Squads w/ Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole

AND

2x Wartrak Skorchas.

Yes, this would be 2 more kill points, but having 2 more units total plus the fact that I'd be putting out a lot more dakka and I've be much less vulnerable to high strength/low ap shots. What do you think would do better ?

Nob Bikers are stronger. 2 wounds makes a difference. Wartrakks also aren't that great. At all.

Well, the wounds are irrelevant, because the proposed warbiker equivalent would have the same amount of wounds (actually more counting the nob leaders) and they'd be more spread out. They would be lacking fnp which would make them more vulnerable points-wise against small arms fire, but against large weapons such as lascannons/krak missiles/pie-plates they would die just as fast but they are more of them thus more efficient. They'd have twice as many shots with the dakkaguns but wouldn't have as many powerklaws attacks. They would have more total attacks so they'd be better against weaker troops in combat. The way I see it it's a pretty close trade off all things considered.

I was thinking about this list incorporating a battlwagon like razerous proposed:

Biker Boss w/ Klaw, CB (135)

Big Mek w/ KFF, Eavy Armor (90)

TROOPS

"Mork's Angels" 9x Nob Bikers w/ Cybork Bodies 610)
--->1x Painboy Biker
--->1x PK, Waaagh! Banner
--->1x PK, Kombi-Skorcha
--->1x PK, Slugga
--->1x Big Choppa, Bosspole
--->1x Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
--->1x Big Choppa, Slugga
--->1x Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
--->1x Choppa, Slugga

"Da 'Ard Nutz" 18x 'Ard Boyz, 1x 'Ard Nob (Joined by Big Mek)(Riding in battlwagon)(230)
18x Sluggas/Choppas,
Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole
---> Mounted in Trukk w/ Reinfored Ram

"Orkolyte Mob #1" 11x Boyz, 1x Nob (152)
11x Sluggas/Choppas,
Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole
---> Mounted in Trukk w/ Reinfored Ram

"Orkolyte Mob #2" 11x Boyz, 1x Nob (152)
11x Sluggas/Choppas,
Nob w/ Powerklaw and Bosspole
---> Mounted in Trukk w/ Reinfored Ram

HEAVY SUPPORT

"Da Ironhide" Battlewagon (130)
Armor Plates, Big Shoota, Grot Riggers, Deff Rolla


Total: 1499



This would give my army something else tough as nails to shoot at, more specifically, it would make the enemy have to split up shots between the nobs and the BW (for the only things good at destroying one would be good at destroying the other.) If the battlwagons did get blown up, well, then at least it's still a squad of 4+armor/5+cover save orks with leadership8 and a bosspole.

Boarding planks. Red paint job. - On the trucks. Youve listed with the Da 'Ard Nutz squad a dedicated transport Trukk, was that a copy paste mistake or are you getting it in addition?

As for the warbikers - you may have more wounds spread out but if you take 8 unsaved wounds you loose 8 warbikers. If Morks Angels take 8 unsaved wounds they loose 0 models, in ideal situations.

Besides that, looks good