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I recently acquired a chaos army and I've been trying to think of a list that achieves a good anti-infantry/anti-vehicle balance. Please tell me what you guys think I'll also list some ideas I've thought of just to get your opinion on those too x)

HQ:

Daemon Prince with Bolt of Change and mark of Tzeentch - 155

Troops:

10 chaos marines with 2 multi-meltas mounted in a Rhino = 205
1 Aspiring sorcerer with bolt of change and 6 Thousand Sons - 223

Elites:

Chaos Dreadnought with 2 close combat weapons - 100 points
(Have either considered running Chosen with all meltaguns for 280 points, or all with power fists but that's far more costly, or 4 with meltaguns and 1 with a power fist)

Heavy Support:

1 Defiler with Reaper Autocannon and extra close combat arm - 150
3 Obliterators - 225

Total comes at 1058 points using the ones I haven't suggested. I could replace bolt of change with doombolt to shave off a few points or remove a thousand son or two

Let me know what you guys think

Zoot wrote:
HQ:

Daemon Prince with Bolt of Change and mark of Tzeentch - 155

I would use a mark of Nurgle before Tzeentch

Zoot wrote:

Troops:

10 chaos marines with 2 multi-meltas mounted in a Rhino = 205
1 Aspiring sorcerer with bolt of change and 6 Thousand Sons - 223

Chaos Marines can't have Multi-meltas. I'd reccomend Plasma Guns. If you'd like to try and model something, an Icon of chaos glory would be a great thing for the squad.

Zoot wrote:

Elites:

Chaos Dreadnought with 2 close combat weapons - 100 points
(Have either considered running Chosen with all meltaguns for 280 points, or all with power fists but that's far more costly, or 4 with meltaguns and 1 with a power fist)

I like the more reliable Chosen. Don't do all powerfists.

Zoot wrote:

Heavy Support:

1 Defiler with Reaper Autocannon and extra close combat arm - 150
3 Obliterators - 225

Very good solid HS choices.


The list seems pretty good, but I'd reccomend more troops as a start.

Thanks for your input, I actually meant meltaguns not multi-meltas, I do that a lot. I have some plasma guns but I'm scared of them, I tend to very often roll a 1 and get fried xP I personally like meltaguns the best since they can deal a little more with heavier vehicles such as land raiders and close combat walkers like dreadnoughts (though they won't actually be able to use them should they get in combat, but maybe have a change to shoot)

What do you think of Thousand Sons? Are they reliable enough for their high cost? Also is it a good idea to give the marines a nurgle icon so they all have toughness 5?

You will need at least one more standard CSM squad, to bolster your ranks. Chaos suffers enough from small numbers as it is. Also, you might want to try wings on your prince.
Also, I like the all melta or all flamer chosen, and the champ with a fist, very fun squad that will give your opponents a headache!

Interesting I was also thinking of another list more focused on smaller numbers and bigger units -

troops:

10 thousand sons - 230
1 aspiring sorceror with wind of chaos - 90

5 chaos marines, 1 with meltagun - 90

HQ:

2 daemon princes with bolt of change and mark of tzeentch (155 each I think)

Heavy Support:

1 land raider - 220

I don't think this is as good though, just wanted to know your thoughts

Zoot wrote:
HQ:

Daemon Prince with Bolt of Change and mark of Tzeentch - 155

Troops:

10 chaos marines with 2 multi-meltas mounted in a Rhino = 205
1 Aspiring sorcerer with bolt of change and 6 Thousand Sons - 223

Elites:

Chaos Dreadnought with 2 close combat weapons - 100 points
(Have either considered running Chosen with all meltaguns for 280 points, or all with power fists but that's far more costly, or 4 with meltaguns and 1 with a power fist)

Heavy Support:

1 Defiler with Reaper Autocannon and extra close combat arm - 150
3 Obliterators - 225

This list suffers from low numbers like some others have said. But if you want to be anti-infantry and anti-tank Chaos is pretty good at that. To accomplish this most of the time you're going to need a few more Oblits. So knock out the Defiler, as it doesn't actually perform very well for two more obliterators. They are perfect against large numbers of infantry and large numbers of tanks. With 5 you can have a squad of 1 and 2 squads of 2.

I also heavily suggest against using Chaos Dreadnoughts. Ones with double close combat weapons aren't as dangerous to you, but when you roll poorly it usually comes at a very inopportune time. Like if your about to have your dread charge into your enemies lines he usually rolls a one and just fires some bolters at them so he can be torn apart next turn. Or while he's hiding in cover advancing he rolls a 6 and charges out toward your opponent's heavy weapons in the open.

Your Troops need a boost and if you have options other than thousand sons exploit those. Tsons aren't very good in 5th edition because their AP 3 bolter fire is always going to have a cover save against it. You'll pretty much never get a round of Tson fire off on any unit ever, because they will always go to ground to prevent huge loses.

You might also want to rethink your HQ choice, Bolt of Change isn't actually that good versus vehicles. It's a strength 8 shot at 24 inches but that's not really that impressive unless your shooting light vehicles. If you want to be very good against infantry may I suggest a Lash prince? But everyone will say you will never have any friends again if you play one. A DP with MoK is actually pretty effective against vehicles too.

Zoot wrote:
troops:

10 thousand sons - 230
1 aspiring sorceror with wind of chaos - 90

5 chaos marines, 1 with meltagun - 90

HQ:

2 daemon princes with bolt of change and mark of tzeentch (155 each I think)

Heavy Support:

1 land raider - 220

I don't think this is as good though, just wanted to know your thoughts

It's not as good as the only thing going into that land raider is the 5 man CSM squad. As soon as the land raider gets popped that squad is a sitting duck. The Tsons aren't that good and the DPs will get shot down pretty fast because they are hoofing it and won't have the mobility necessary to get into advantageous positions.

Ah thanks a lot for your input Typeline Here's another list:

HQ:

Daemon prince with doombolt - 120

Troops:

10 chaos marines - two with plasma guns = 180
10 chaos marines - two with meltaguns = 170
10 chaos marines - two with meltaguns = 170 (420)

Heavy Support:

3 Obliterators = 225
1 Defiler with reaper autocannon and close combat arm (150)

Dedicated Transports:

1 Rhino with Havoc Launcher = 50
1 Rhino = 35

I think that's exactly 1000 points

i like this list might change on of the tac squads for either berzerkers or thousand sons those ap3 bolters are just mean give the demon prince wings and a mark i prefer khorne but any of them are good

and i need to humbly disagree with typeline tsons are that good there a troops choice with a 4+ inv save and all there shots are ap3 which means dead marines when you wound and as for the bolter fire having cover saves that still giving them at best a 4 up save versus a 3 up

1) I'd replace the Reapor Autocannon on the Defiler with another Close Combat Arm. It is my opinion that its either all about the battle cannon or about smashing face in an assault with the Defilers.

2) Unless your going for fluff, Thousand Sons are too situational for me and with everyone ducking under cover the AP3 is nice, but often trumped by the 4+ cover saves that people are getting all over the place. What is nice about them is that they effectively bring their own cover (in the form of a 4+ invuln save), so they can start heading over to the objective, but slow and purposeful makes them need a transport to do this effectively. Another problem I have experienced, is giving the low model count in the unit you start needing to deal with fire spam and wound allocation, what this means is that you end up needing to dump a die on the Sorc since more wounds than models, then oops rolled a 1 and the Sorc dies (60+ points) down the drain and now the rest of your squad is rolling d6" instead of best of 2d6". I love them, but they just don't fit the bill, my opinion is that any of the other troop choices end up better than TS troops, unfortunately. Yes 4+ worse than 3+ for Marines, but you aren't always fighting MEQs and for their cost they just don't cut it for me. That said, I have my own batch of TS built and painted for the fun and friendly match ups.

Edit.. Note: If your meta-game is all about fighting MEQs then taking Thousand Sons is an ok choice, but just consider what that AP3 really buys you when fighting IG or Orks (unless they are taking Armoured Carapace or 'Eavy Armour, and even then its just a points race with a high probability they getting 4+ cover saves anyway).

3) Find a way to put wings on the Daemon Prince. Unless you are running lash, which you aren't, its my opinion that you want this guy in close combat FAST and wings get him their ASAP.

4) For normal CSM troops, I personally prefer Missile Launchers instead of Plasma Guns. I like the versatility of the ML. I know its Heavy vs Rapid Fire, and I can't get two of them in the squad, but when I have a choice I go ML over Plasma, for range, slightly better AT, and "potentially" better anti-inf. So maybe go 1 PG, 1 ML for that squad.

Kharnflakes wrote:and i need to humbly disagree with typeline tsons are that good there a troops choice with a 4+ inv save and all there shots are ap3 which means dead marines when you wound and as for the bolter fire having cover saves that still giving them at best a 4 up save versus a 3 up

Every troops choice can have a 4+ invul save now, it's called a cover save. Everything is getting them. You'll be hard pressed to make shots in 5th ed without cover. The AP 3 bolters are also not as good because of this prevalence of cover.

Typeline wrote:

Kharnflakes wrote:and i need to humbly disagree with typeline tsons are that good there a troops choice with a 4+ inv save and all there shots are ap3 which means dead marines when you wound and as for the bolter fire having cover saves that still giving them at best a 4 up save versus a 3 up

Every troops choice can have a 4+ invul save now, it's called a cover save. Everything is getting them. You'll be hard pressed to make shots in 5th ed without cover. The AP 3 bolters are also not as good because of this prevalence of cover.

I've noticed this too and I've actually been doing a lot better in games that I don't use the thousand sons.

Also to add to the discussion I'm considering running daemons of tzeentch (if you're allowed to use them with chaos) such as flamers and pink horrors since they get a lot of shots, have a 4+ invulnerable, and breath of chaos ignores cover saves. What do you guys think?

Zoot wrote:

Typeline wrote:

Kharnflakes wrote:and i need to humbly disagree with typeline tsons are that good there a troops choice with a 4+ inv save and all there shots are ap3 which means dead marines when you wound and as for the bolter fire having cover saves that still giving them at best a 4 up save versus a 3 up

Every troops choice can have a 4+ invul save now, it's called a cover save. Everything is getting them. You'll be hard pressed to make shots in 5th ed without cover. The AP 3 bolters are also not as good because of this prevalence of cover.

I've noticed this too and I've actually been doing a lot better in games that I don't use the thousand sons.

Also to add to the discussion I'm considering running daemons of tzeentch (if you're allowed to use them with chaos) such as flamers and pink horrors since they get a lot of shots, have a 4+ invulnerable, and breath of chaos ignores cover saves. What do you guys think?

Sorry to burst your bubble but the only demons CSMs can run are the generic lesser demons and the greater demon. That's it.