Feel no pain rule question.

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**camcam_HALO**

If I were to shoot an ap3 weapon and wound a command squad space marine with armor 3, would he still be able to make his feel no pain save?

**Regwon**

Yes. FNP may be taken against any wound except those that cause instant death, combat attacks that ignore armour saves or any other attack that ignores any armour save (a terminator may still take an armour save against your AP3 gun).

**camcam_HALO**

Thank you Regwon

**krumpaork**

Yes, they still get the feel no pain. Against shooting attacks they get their FNP as long as it does not inflict instant death, is AP1 or AP2. Close combat attacks are a little different.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

You take your feel no pain in all cases except for the following:

If the wound allows no saves to be made no feel no pain save is made. This is from power anything (fist, sword, etc), anything that rends (on a 6 to wound of course), Perils of the Warp, and failed Dangerous Terrain Tests.

There it is in a nutshell with no extra jibberish..

**Lordhat**

You forgot to list AP 1 & 2 weapons.

**willydstyle**

Well, I'm sure his list wasn't meant to be comprehensive, but Mindwar doesn't allow FNP either.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Indeed it was basically off the top of my head trying to write it sounding like the rulebook. And mindwar doesn't allow FNP either? I don't remember that but that'd sure make it a lot more attractive.

**Marius Xerxes**

Why doesn't Mind War allow FNP?

**Waaaaaaagh!**

I'm guessing because you cant ever take Armour Saves against Mind War, which is one of the criteria listed in the FNP rule. The list in the Rulebook isn't exhaustive, the qualifier "Can't ever take armour saves against" is (and by default includes things like AP1 and AP2 weapons, Power Weapons etc etc)

**Alerian**

FNP cannot be used against Mind War because FNP cannot be used againt "any other wound against which no armor save can ever be taken" (pg 75 BRB). You may not take armor saves against mind war, so you cannot use FNP against it.

Dang..ninja'd

**Grunt_For_Christ**

And mind war states specifcally that no saves may be taken?

**Waaaaaaagh!**

yes it does.

"...The target loses a wound, with no armour saves allowed."

it is, in essence, a special shooting attach who's special rules say you cannot get Armour Saves, and therefore negates FNP.

Its the same reason why Breath of Chaos negates FNP also.

**Sazzlefrats**

So if a fire prism lobs a str5 ap4 large blast template shot on a biker nob squad, the unit gets no FNP because it defeats their basic 4+ armor, even though the unit has a 4+ cover save due to their special rules?

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Only if a prism shot ignores armour, which to my knowledge is not true. If it's an ap4 then saves are allowed, hence allowing FNP to be used. FNP isn't used, as sated before, against attacks that completely ignore armour (power weapons, rending, etc.)

And Waagh, thanks for the clarification. I see that it is a special shooting attack with its own special rules. A good thing for chaos players to remember right?

**Waaaaaaagh!**

@Sazzlefrats: They can take FNP just fine. It does Ignore their Armour save, but FNP is negated only* by things that will never under any circumstances allow an Armour save. Such things Include AP1 and AP2 weaponry, Power Weapons, Force Weapons etc.

*By "only" I refer to the No Armour Save clause, not the Instant Death Clause.

@Grunt_For_Christ: That they are. Autohitting, wounding on 4+ even though they are like T5 or T6 I forget, ignoring whatever cover they are in, and their Armour AND their FNP. These "Awesome Nob Bikers of the Waaaaaaaagh! Cheese" suddenly died very quickly to a Unit Half their cost.

**willydstyle**

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:@Sazzlefrats: They can take FNP just fine. It does Ignore their Armour save, but FNP is negated only* by things that will never under any circumstances allow an Armour save. Such things Include AP1 and AP2 weaponry, Power Weapons, Force Weapons etc.

*By "only" I refer to the No Armour Save clause, not the Instant Death Clause.

@Grunt_For_Christ: That they are. Autohitting, wounding on 4+ even though they are like T5 or T6 I forget, ignoring whatever cover they are in, and their Armour AND their FNP. These "Awesome Nob Bikers of the Waaaaaaaagh! Cheese" suddenly died very quickly to a Unit Half their cost.

Rather than "died" you mean "took 3 or 4 wounds from." Breath of chaos still only wounds on a 4+ (with re-rolls with warptime) and does not cause ID, so you're really unlikely to remove a whole model before the DP/Sorcerer+unit gets charged and wiped out.

**JD21290**

its been posted alot now, so i wont re-post old junk.

style, thats why flamers are taken in units of around 5

5 templates, wounding on 4's and causing a wound with no saves.
every bikernobz fear

or, throw some letters at them for the same effect.

**Waaaaaaagh!**

Well considering a 12 Strong Flamer unit, hitting say, half the unit (5 models), is 5*12 (60) hits, that's 30 Wounds with no possible save. Last I checked a 10 Man Nob Biker Squad had only 20 Wounds.

**Webbe**

Flamers are great against most stuff. The trick is to get them before they get you, they are 35 points each and die easier than a space marine to both shooting and close combat.
Nob bikers generally have a 5+ inv save btw. It should also be hard to cover more than 2-3 bikers per template. If I saw flamers near I'd be sure to spread them out if I failed to get someone to assault them/shoot them before they could breathe.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:@Sazzlefrats: They can take FNP just fine. It does Ignore their Armour save, but FNP is negated only* by things that will never under any circumstances allow an Armour save. Such things Include AP1 and AP2 weaponry, Power Weapons, Force Weapons etc.

*By "only" I refer to the No Armour Save clause, not the Instant Death Clause.

@Grunt_For_Christ: That they are. Autohitting, wounding on 4+ even though they are like T5 or T6 I forget, ignoring whatever cover they are in, and their Armour AND their FNP. These "Awesome Nob Bikers of the Waaaaaaaagh! Cheese" suddenly died very quickly to a Unit Half their cost.

WOW. That's about all I can say to that.

**Godfather Nurgle**

The best way to look at this are plaguebearers (and to a lesser extent, Ork boyz joined by Grotsnik) What would be the point in giving plaguebearers a FNP roll then (which they do) when they have no armor save? It has to work that way.

**camcam_HALO**

explain how the flamer would not allow the nob bikers a save of any kind?

**sourclams**

The only way a flamer would deny a Nob FNP is if it was AP1/2, S8+, or specified that no armor saves could be taken against it. This excludes just about every "regular" flamer-template weapon in the game, including Burnas, Skorchas, Flamers, Heavy Flamers, and Inferno Cannons.

**JD21290**

people mean flamers as in the daemons

breath of chaos (thier ranged attack) allows no saves.

**Waaaaaaagh!**

camcam_HALO wrote:explain how the flamer would not allow the nob bikers a save of any kind?

In this Case "Flamers" Means Flamers of Tzeentch and their Special Attack "Breath of Chaos"

**camcam_HALO**

ok I was just confused.

**Loredragon2**

I'm not at home, so i dont have a rule book to look at the FNP rule, it states i thought "weapons that alow no armor save", now are we saying AP 1 and 2 weapons because theres no armor out right now that there can be saves against or is it part of the rule. I was thinking it only was ment for items that said in is special rule "may not take armor saves against this weapon."

Thanks,
Loredragon2

**Bookwrack**

It's essentially 'weapons which never allow armor saves.' So AP1, AP2, power weapons, things with special rules which say, 'no armor saves may be taken,' etc.

**Waaaaaaagh!**

Yeah, many people I know get confused because they were hit by say an AP 3 weapon and claiming no FNP. The Weapon has to either "Never under any circumstances give an armour save at any time ever" or be inflicting ID (Or if the rules say it "counts as" something that "Never under any circumstances give an armour save at any time ever" such as a Rending Wound which counts as AP2).