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My Edited Tau List:



HQ

Battlesuit Commander (Shas’o)
- Fusion Blaster
- Plasma Rifle
- Shield Generator
- Iridium Armor
- Hard Wired Multi-Tracker
- HW Drone Controller
- 2 Shield Drones

Points – 182

Elites

Crisis Battlesuit Team (2 Shas’ui)
- Missile Pods (3)
- Plasma Rifles (3)
- Multi Trackers (3)
- Shas’vre (HW Drone Controller w/ 2 Shield Drones)

Crisis Battlesuit Team (2 Shas’ui + Shas’vre)
- TL Flamers (3)
- Multi Trackers (3)
- Shas’vre (HW Drone Controller w/ 2 Shield Drones)

Points – 338

Troops

Fire Warrior Team (6)
- Devilfish
- SMS
- Targeting Array
- Multi Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Fire Warrior Team (6)
- Devilfish
- SMS
- Targeting Array
- Multi Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Points - 370

Fast Attack

Pathfinder Team (6)

Pathfinder Team (6)
- Devilfish
- SMS
- Targeting Array
- Multi Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Points - 269

Heavy Support

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Burst Cannons
- Multi Tracker
- Target Lock
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Burst Cannons
- Multi Tracker
- Target Lock
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Points - 340


Total Points - 1499

i think it is realy good i would probably down the pathfinders as i havnt ever realy sucsided with them and if i was you i would add some krootox into your carnivore sqaud. thats just what i would do but it looks good wouldnt want to face it.

That would give me 90 points leftover adding the Krootox and taking away the Pathfinders, what would that be good for? I could make the D-Fishes a little tougher with Disruption Pods and Decoy Luancher, and that would barely take any points.

What would be useful for 67 points? Should I throw in another gun drone squadron?

I'll give you my impressions, though I'm not really sure what you are going for, theme-wise. If you are trying to get a competitive list together I would think about doing a few things differently.

1.) Commander - In my opinion he is way too expensive. It seems like you have fallen into the trap of 'gimme those hot-hot goodies'. With so many tasty wargear options its hard to say no, but I would suggest you trim him down and make him more tailored to fill a role.

-The only role I can see that he fills currently is joining him to one of your Elite Crisis squads to make them 'hard', but this limits their movement (Slow and Purposeful w/ Iridium Armor) and he's not kitted the same so you will probably be wasting shots. Also, he may be equipped to drop behind enemy lines to take a shot at something close up, but you are kitted to shoot 3 LOW-AP shots into something, maybe a Carnifex or Tyrant or Wraithlord, so he'll just get charged. His Stim. Injector and 2+ Save are only helping you against low-strength non-power weapon attacks, and you probably aren't there to shoot at stuff like that.

I SUGGEST: (Assuming you want the added stats of the Shas'O (rather than a Shas'El with Targetting Array)
Battlesuit Commander (Shas’o):
- Plasma or Fusion
- Missile Pods
- Hard Wired Multi-Tracker
- Iridium Armor
- HW Drone Controller
- 2 Shield Drones
- Bonded

Elite Crisis x3:
- Plasma Rifles
- Missile Pods
- Multi-Tracker
+Team LEader w/ HW Drone Controller and 2x Shield Drones and maybe a Targetting Array

After you join the Commander to the unit you have a squad of 4 Crisis Suits, kitted similarly, with 4 shield drones (2x 2+ Save and 2x 3+ Save). You will be able to spread wounds around fairly well, you will have a LD 10, you will be bonded, and now you can slaughter those 'Fexes and Tyrants...

2.) Elite #2 - I think Burst Cannons are the worst buy a Tau player can make for his Crisis Suits. I know a lot of players feel the same way. I personally like to twin-link the flamers and put a Team leader in with an Airbursting Frag Projector for anti-horde. Especially with the new cover saves, all those little gribblies will be in the woods anyway, why not steal their cover saves instead of encouraging them with Pulse fire...

3.) As far as Devilfish are concerned, I wouldn't spend 20 points on a Targetting array and multi-tracker for just a burst cannon. The drones don't get the benefit. Either make it a full Warfish (with Smart Missile System) or leave it cheap. I consider the Distruption Pod to be a mandatory upgrade to all vehicles, for 5 points its a steal.

4.) Kroot - Leave the shaper at home (I am not sure but I don't think the Hounds can buy the Armor save, just the Carnivores... don't quote me on that.) anyway, I kind of like the shaper myself, but only if taking many larger squads. His LD bonus is nice, but only if you really want to invest in a lot of Kroot.)

5.) Fast Attack - Gun Drone Squadrons -- They can be nice to drop behind tanks with AV10 rear armor, but I usually leave them at home. Its a personal choice, and depends on your tactics. I like them occassionally, and sometimes attach a squad of 8 to my commander (make sure to bond the Commander).

6.) Pathfinders - You have to take a Devilfish with them. Just buy one and send it to cart one of your Firewarrior squads around.

7.) I think you have the price for the Hammerhead wrong, it looks to be about 180 (don't have my Codex with me). I personally like the setup, though I usually like the Burst Cannons to save 10 points. Also, I tend to keep him as far away from stuff as possible to keep him safer, so I don't use the short-range weapons as much.



Anyway, alot of this depends on what models you own, so feel free to disregard any of this that you don't have a choice about. Good Luck.

The Hammerhead was 175, a small calculating error.

The Kroot Hounds can get the save (I won't quote anything )



I should probably tune my commander down a little bit. The reason I like making him so tough is becuase I've had horrible experiences in my early games of him getting slaughtered by wimpy guns and very unlucky explosions.


Here's my list v2:




HQ

Battlesuit Commander (Shas’o)
- Fusion Blaster
- Plasma Rifle
- Shield Generator
- Hard Wired Multi-Tracker
- HW Drone Controller
- 2 Shield Drones

Points – 162


Elites

Crisis Battlesuit Team (3 Shas’ui)
- Missile Pods (4)
- Plasma Rifles (4)
- Multi Trackers (4)
- Shas’vre (HW Drone Controller w/ 2 Shield Drones)

Crisis Battlesuit Team (3 Shas’ui + Shas’vre)
- TL Flamers (4)
- Multi Trackers (4)
- Shas’vre (HW Drone Controller w/ 2 Shield Drones)

Points – 436


Troops

Fire Warrior Team (12)
- Devilfish
- SMS
- Targeting Array
- Multi Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Fire Warrior Team (12)
- Devilfish
- SMS
- Targeting Array
- Multi Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Kroot Carnivore Squad
- 12 Kroot

Points - 574


Fast Attack

Gun Drone Squadron (8)

Points - 96


Heavy Support

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Smart Missile System
- Multi-Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Points - 175


Total Points - 1443



I have sixty points leftover, what should I put them into

On your Elite Crisis suits, you can't have 4 members per squad (3 + leader) -- you have to upgrade one member (2 + 1 leader). That is going to trim some points (124). Maybe invest in Broadsides, another tank, another Crisis unit (Tank Hunters - Fusion / Missile, my favorite Tank Hunters), or maybe put those Pathfinders back in. My buddy play nids and Eldar and he always goes straight for my pathfinders, so I use them as bait. Plus the devilfish that comes with the Pathfinders can be used to cart around your Kroot and gives all your Deep Strikers a bonus for free.

Crisis teams can only have 3 members as stated.


Trim down your commander. Get rid of the gun drone squad, get another Hammerhead.

In the codex it says 1-3 Shas'iu. I made my team leader a Shas'vre so I could do that.


HQ

Battlesuit Commander (Shas’o)
- Fusion Blaster
- Plasma Rifle
- Shield Generator
- Hard Wired Multi-Tracker
- Stimulant Injector

Points – 142


Elites

Crisis Battlesuit Team (3 Shas’ui)
- Missile Pods (4)
- Plasma Rifles (4)
- Multi Trackers (4)
- Shas’vre (HW Drone Controller w/ 2 Shield Drones)

Crisis Battlesuit Team (3 Shas’ui + Shas’vre)
- TL Flamers (4)
- Multi Trackers (4)
- Shas’vre (HW Drone Controller w/ 2 Shield Drones)

Points – 436


Troops

Fire Warrior Team (12)
- Devilfish
- SMS
- Targeting Array
- Multi Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Fire Warrior Team (12)
- Devilfish
- SMS
- Targeting Array
- Multi Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Kroot Carnivore Squad (12)

Points - 574


Heavy Support

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Smart Missile System
- Multi-Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Smart Missile System
- Multi-Tracker
- Disruption Pods
- Decoy Launchers

Points - 350


Total Points - 1502


I completely took out the drones and took away my commander's shield drones.

I managed to have the points to make my commander a little tougher with stimulant injector.

If you read the rules for putting in a Shas'Vre Team Lead it reads that you may upgrade one of your existing squad members, not put in an extra one. You can definitely only have squads of 3 Crisis Suits. 4 Suits gets a little unweildy anyway (The only squads that can have 4 or more are Farsight and his Bodyguard, or a squad with a Commander joined to it...). They can get too hard to position to shoot, keep out of sight, keep behind cover, etc... Also, I am a big proponent of Shield Drones, they almost always make their points back in the protection they provide. I especially like putting Iridium Armor and 2x Shield drones on a Commander to give 3x 2+ Armor Saves and 2x 4+ Invulnerable Saves.

Thanks. Would a unit of 12 Kroot do that much? If I throw them out and trim down some other things, I will have the points to add another unit of suits.

In the end, it is probably more effective to take out the odd suit and keep the Shas'vre and two Shas'ui. That let me make my commander a little tougher.

Going to drop quick feedback, and wait for you to modify your first post to reflect the changes that people have suggested in this thread:

-As mentioned above, your pathfinders require a devilfish. Take one off your firewarriors and give it to your pathfinders. They're scouts - you get a free move pre-turn 1. That move is generally used to send your devilfish somewhere and unload your pathfinders so that they can start markerlighting when the game starts. Then the devilfish goes and picks up the other firewarrior squad.

-Cut your firewarrior teams in half. 6 warriors each. At this stage in 40k, Tau firewarriors are...really weak. They're going to be sitting inside a devilfish pretty much the whole game, protected somewhere out of the way so that when the game ends, you can zip them up onto an objective to hold it. You only have two troops choices, and its *not* really much harder to kill 12 firewarriors than it is to kill 6. Save yourself a few points.

-Your HQ needs help. =p You've given him the only real powerful weapons in your army that can mash a unit up in close range, and you've also made him slow with Iridium Armor. Iridium Armor is fun because is gives shield drones a 2+ armor save. However, having a stimpack with a 2+ is redundant. You're not really going to run into opportunities to fail a 2+ than pass a 4+. For the most part, you're either going to pass your 2+, or you're going to get hit with AP1 or AP2 weapons and not get an armor save anyway, which negates FNP.

Would it still be effective giving the pathfinders their own warfish? And should I give half of them or more target lock?

Also, should I keep the Kroot? If not I could get rid of them for more fire warriors/pathfinders.


I put the latest version of my list at the top, as you can see I have 70 points to burn + whatever I shave off the rest of my army.

My personal take: Kroot are useless.

They're better at assault than Tau Firewarriors (obviously) but they're subpar in assault to every other race. You can use them as disposable meatshields, but there's no point wasting points doing that when you could use those points to give yourself more firepower.

Personally, I don't use them. Tactics and firepower seem to be a great Tau combination for me to get wins; I haven't needed to try putting Kroot into the mix.

My army now has another warfish, 12 less fire-warriors, a full pathfinder team, and 12 less Kroot.

Is this a good swap of points?

I edited my list. I added a Warfish, a Pathfinder Team, and I took out the Kroot and 12 Fire Warriors. Is this an effective swap?

I would Imagine that 12 Fire Warriors and 12 Kroot would be better than 8 Pathfinders (w/ 4 Target Locks) and a Warfish.

As Far as the Firewarriors:

I agree, 6 Vanilla Firewarriors in a Devilfish is my favorite setup. I like to use Warfish so that I have another threat on the table, plus I don't like giving up a KP for the drones.

Kroot - I like Kroot, in fact I just did a maxxed Kroot army list and it kicked the crap out of a NidZilla / Genestealer List, 100 Kroot, 60 Hounds, some Broadsides and 2 Shas'O for support.
However, one of the things I came to realize is just a small amount of Kroot are a liability, since they either aren't a big enough threat or they scare your opponent and he just kills them real quick. One thing I can say about Kroot, if you have woods on your table, bring Kroot. They are the cheapest 2+ saves you will ever buy (Fieldcraft plus go to ground). They aren't too bad in combat (what other army has 7 point S4 I4 A2 combat models. Gaunts for 7 points are S4 I3? A1 with a 12" 1 shot weapon. Hormogaunts cost 10 points for the same thing, granted they have synapse bonuses and are faster, but my point is I Kroot are still a bargain buy, especially the Hounds for pure CC cheapness.

I say take Decoy Launchers off of everything (I don't think they are worth it in 5E), Change the SMS on the Tanks to Burst Cannons, then include Target Locks. That way you aren't out 20 points if you are out of range of the missiles, but if stuff gets close you have 6 shots that aren't tied to your Railgun.

I would remove Stimulant Injector from the Commander, he doesn't get to take a Feel No Pain save against S8+ weapons, which are the instakill types of stuff with low AP my Commander usually gets shot with. I can almost guarantee you that Stim Injectors will be a waste. That being said, if you plan on joining him to your first Crisis Elite squad, you can put weaker shots on him and use Stim Injector to help negate saves, but that's a pretty specific scenario that may or may not get used every game.

I would take the Target Locks off the Pathfinders. 8 Markerlights gives you 4 hits. Concentrate that in one place to completely remove a Cover Save and boost the BS of something firing at it. Once you start spreading those Markerlights out the effect becomes muted, in my opinion.

With the extra points consider any of the following:
-An Airbursting Frag Projector, TL Flamer, HW MultiTracker, HW Target Lock, and 2x Shield Drones for your Flamer Squad Team Leader. It's going to make the squad get a little more pricey, but its super fun to be able to drop a Large Blast and 3 TL Flamers on a big squad of something, and you have the option of moving the Team Lead shots to another closeby unit to spread the wealth if you are looking at an overkill situation.
-KROOOOOT - I like them, I think putting in 1 medium or 2 small squads gives you some flexibility. You can infiltrate, Outflank, go to ground in Forests on an objective... I just find them useful again and again, so I always at least keep them in my playbook, even if I leave them out of some games. Also, if you keep the squad to 12 you can just hop in that Pathfinder Devilfish, making it scoring.
-Maybe put Iridium Armor back on the Commander, I like it, makes him pretty tough.

I do prefer burst cannons on a hammerhead, but I do believe that it already has a target lock on board.

I made a second pathfinder team with leftover points. Now I can have two teams in the same Warfish. I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep my commander how he is. Everyone seems to dislike the SI, so out it goes. I changed the Hammerheads, and it does seem more effective to do it that way.

no kroot rock they are cheap and should be used like orks charge amlasly in a random direction hounds rock in hand to hand

I've only ever had good experiences with Kroot against orks. Against everyone else they get massacred.

However, I have like dumping them on objectives in woods and have them go to ground. My opponent dumped over 12 templates on them and they only lost 3 Kroot or so.

Well i really like to put in a stealth squad or maybe two because they can lay down some serious power plus if one uses a marker light they can get some major support for a broadside or two. another thing i love doing is that each one of my fire warrior squads have a sheild drone. making a admitably dependent army but i slayed a whole ork horde in nine turns using a 1500 pt army. but i agree a whole squad of pathfinders are only good if youre combining with a inacurate army like orks because i have found good in that

see experiance shows kroot arnt usless

true i made a one thousand point army once 3 stealth squads each of six all had two fusion guns and 1 was led by a shasvre then i had 42 kroot and 24 kroot hounds. pound on the enemie first with stealth squads then have kroot come in and wipe the remains. you always get the first blow and its like the perfect mont ka.