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So, way back in middle and high school I played a 500 point group of space marines. First Dark Angels, then White Scars once I had decided that I really liked those bikes and mobility.

Now, I've been lurking around sites for a few years trying to get back into the game and have, over the years, been gradually collecting a Tau force.

With a recent unexpected extra income, I plan on finally finishing my Tau force and have been posting this list around trying to make sure it sounds sane.

I'll post my reasoning for said options under each area.

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HQ:
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Shas'El (Commander)
-XV-81 (gives Smart Missile System) (Forgeworld Model)
-Targetting Array
--Stimulant Injector
--Shield Projector
--Multi-Tracker
--Drone Controller
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Bonding Knives
-Shield Drone
Total: 145 points


Bodyguard for Shas'El
-Targetting Array
-Multi-Tracker
-Airbursting fragmentation projector
-Twin-Linked Missile Pod
-Shield Projector
Total - 108


Bodyguard for Shas'El
-Targetting Array
-Multi-Tracker
-Twin-linked Plasma rifle
-Missile Pod
-Shield projector
Total - 112 pts

Here I have my specialist Crisis suits dedicated to taking out masses of troops and hopefully especially MEQ's. My commander gets off a whopping nine shots per turn at BS 5 with this setup, probably quite likely to cause a wound on almost anything. Against horde armies or weaker basic troop forces like Eldar and IG, this should prove especially devastating.

The other two are given the airburster to negate troops in cover and the TL Plasma to again, make sure at least one MEQ is taken off the table each turn with extra guns for good measure. This is my primary assault unit when dealing with troops. (Not assault as in close combat, but in clearing them out of fortified structures. With the stealth team below lighting them up to negate cover saves, any force should go down quickly to these three...)



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Troops:
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2x Fire Warrior Squad
12 fire Warriors
Shas'Ui(Sargeant) upgrade
Bonding Knives
Markerlight Upgrade
Target Lock for Shas'Ui
Total: 300 pts


2x Devilfish
-2x Disruption Pods
-2x multi-tracker
-2x seeker missiles
Smart Missile Systems
total: 250 pts

My Tau squads each get a markerlight with a target lock on the leader, allowing them to target tanks if need be for the seeker missiles on my vehicles. This is their only purpose for said markers unless another Tau unit is nearby, as otherwise since it's not networked it's useless. (as a side note, I'd like to know how exactly you model markerlights on Shas'Ui...)

My Fish are given smart missiles because, well, it's pretty much my favorite gun in the Tau arsenal. 24 inch range, four shots each, doesn't need LOS? Do want.

I have not split my fire warriors into four units of six because with my upgrades, it costs me an extra sixty points to do so, and I'd rather spend those points elsewhere. I realize this is going to hurt me in objective-based games, perhaps for those I can make them simply into four squads with only two having the upgrades.



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Fast Attack
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Gun Drones
8 Gun Drones
Total: 96 pts

My preferred choice of meatshields for the Tau, and they even get JSJ and pinning for maximum annoyance. These guys are going to be light infantry that take potshots at troops and serve as distractions or assault-soakers while the rest of my forces are the real killers. (These are not a scoring unit for objective games, are they? I know they can't count as Kill Points...)

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Elites:
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1x XV 25 stealth squad
3x Stealth Suits
Bonding Knives
Leader Designation & Markerlight
2x Markerlight Drone
Fusion Blaster
Total: 180 pts

2x Crisis suits
-Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
-Targetting Array
Total: 106 pts

The "Marker" stealth team that I hear is popular now, but actually came up with on my own. This unit is going to go wherever it needs to go, firing markers mostly at whatever needs lighted up.

The crisis suits are a dedicated tank hunting squad that I'm not sure about. I'm VERY tempted to reduce this to one monat that's been upgraded and can have a missile pod or flamer as well. Still, two TL'd BS 4 fusion guns are almost sure to hurt a tank per turn, so keeping two of them around is probably for the best.


----------------------------------------------------
Heavy Support:
----------------------------------------------------
Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Smart Missile System
Target Lock
Multi-Tracker
2x Seeker Missile
Disruption Pod
Total: 200 pts

Standard Railhead outfitted with two seeker missiles and SMS. Moving on...


You might notice I haven't taken any Broadsides. There is a very good reason for this, I want to keep my forces mobile at all times and Broadsides, with Slow and Purposeful, can't move away from advancing units quickly. Even with a +2 and great range, I can't find myself wanting to take any.

As far as Kroot goes, I just don't think they're worth the points. They're great for close combat but not much else, and I prefer keeping things shooty, so without being already in a heavily fortified structure... They're not worth taking to me.

My number one fear is not having enough troops for objective games and the one thing that irks me about this list is the crisis team with fusion blasters. If you have any advice on this, please say it, and as far as the rest of it... is this list even sane to field, or have I spent far too much on upgrades for my units?

Pictured below is an XV-81. Not mine, this is the one from Forgeworld.

Firstly, remove the individual points costs for wargear, its breaching GW IP and could get the forum shut down.
Anyway:
1. Your commanders pretty decent, but If SMS uses a hardpoint then he's using 4. Drop the Sheild Generator for an extra 20 points.
2. Both bodyguards are using 5 hardpoints. Drop sheild gen and Targetting array, for 60 more points.
3. 'ui, bonding and markerlight is only useful on sttatic squads. Drop them from your fire warriors for an extra 60 points. Your Devilfish also have too many upgrades. drop the Seekers for 40 more points. Also, drop to 3 units of 8 Fire warriors. These, with devilfish, leave you with 75 spare points.
4. Drones are decent, but everything counts as a kill point now. That means any drones on Vehicles count as an extra kill point to.
5. SMT team is vert goo, but drop the Fusion Blaster. If there closer than 30" awat from the enemy your not using them properly. Suicide FB Crisis suits are generally not that good, use the spare points to change them to FireKnives. (Plasma Rifle/Missile Pod + Multi-tracker)
6. Drop Seekers and Target Lock from Hammerhead, to save 25 Points.
7. You Have 80 points left. Add a unit of 6 pathfinders, with their Devilfich Transporting1 Fire Warrior squad.
That leaves you with 8 points spare, which you can use however you like.
VH

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:Firstly, remove the individual points costs for wargear, its breaching GW IP and could get the forum shut down.
Anyway:
1. Your commanders pretty decent, but If SMS uses a hardpoint then he's using 4. Drop the Sheild Generator for an extra 20 points.
2. Both bodyguards are using 5 hardpoints. Drop sheild gen and Targetting array, for 60 more points.
3. 'ui, bonding and markerlight is only useful on sttatic squads. Drop them from your fire warriors for an extra 60 points. Your Devilfish also have too many upgrades. drop the Seekers for 40 more points. Also, drop to 3 units of 8 Fire warriors. These, with devilfish, leave you with 75 spare points.
4. Drones are decent, but everything counts as a kill point now. That means any drones on Vehicles count as an extra kill point to.
5. SMT team is vert goo, but drop the Fusion Blaster. If there closer than 30" awat from the enemy your not using them properly. Suicide FB Crisis suits are generally not that good, use the spare points to change them to FireKnives. (Plasma Rifle/Missile Pod + Multi-tracker)
6. Drop Seekers and Target Lock from Hammerhead, to save 25 Points.
7. You Have 80 points left. Add a unit of 6 pathfinders, with their Devilfich Transporting1 Fire Warrior squad.
That leaves you with 8 points spare, which you can use however you like.
VH

Alright.

Problem is, my army now doesn't have much in the way of dealing with armor. Any advice on that, or should I just plain rely on my railhead and missile pods? Right now, a broadside is looking really tempting, given it's basically a cheap railgun...

----------------------------------------------------------------
HQ
----------------------------------------------------------------
Shas'El (Commander)
-XV-81 (gives Smart Missile System) (Forgeworld Model)
-Targetting Array
--Stimulant Injector
--Multi-Tracker
--Drone Controller
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
--Bonding Knives
--Shield Drone
Total: 125 points

Bodyguard for Shas'El
-Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker
-Airbursting fragmentation projector
-Twin-Linked Missile Pod
Total - 78 pts

Bodyguard for Shas'El
-Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker
-Twin-linked Plasma rifle
-Missile Pod
Total - 82 pts
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Troops
----------------------------------------------------------------
3x Fire Warrior Squad
8 fire Warriors
Total: 240 pts

3x Devilfish
-Disruption Pods
-multi-tracker
Total: 285 pts
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Elites
----------------------------------------------------------------
1x XV 25 stealth squad
3x Stealth Suits
Bonding Knives
Leader Designation & Markerlight
2x Markerlight Drone
Total: 170 pts

2x Crisis suits
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Targetting Array
Total: 134 pts
----------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy Support
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Smart Missile System
Multi-Tracker
Disruption Pod
Total: 175 pts
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Fast Attack
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gun Drones
8 Gun Drones
Total: 96 pts
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
1384 pt army.
116 pts remaining
----------------------------------------------------------------
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Options considered:
Broadside w/ Targetting Array - 80 pts
Would Leave 36 pts

Third Fireknife Crisis Suit - 67 pts
Would leave 49 pts

Remaining points could be spent on four seeker missiles or upgrades to units, or even extra fire warriors.
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not even considering Pathfinders. Scouts carrying a heavy 1 weapon? No thanks. I already have four markers on the stealth team that can JSJ them, with hardier armor to boot.

What I need is more stuff that can take out tanks. All I have currently is a single Railhead for heavy tank busting, and that's just not enough to last the entire game.

EDIT: Found something here...

----------------------------------------------------------------
Variant troops + Extra Broadside
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2x Fire Warrior team
12x Fire Warriors
Total: 240 pts

2x Devilfish
-Disruption Pods
-multi-tracker
Total: 190 pts

210 points left

So...

10x Kroot
8x Kroot Hounds
Broadside

1502 pts total


How does this look, for a variation on my current army? I'm still not happy with a broadside's static-ness but... I might be able to tolerate for the extra firepower and the extra versatility of having Kroot.

Is there anything I can get as Tau that's tank busting but cheaper than a railhead and more mobile than a broadside? I really... really don't want a static unit in my army list, but I need more tank busters, especially with the now lack of fusion blasters...

I would drop the drones, 5th edition leadership is way too high to rely on drones. they hardly ever wound, and most things have 8-10 ld. and as far as anti vehicle goes, a hammerhead and missile pods are good, if you can squeeze in a broadside or two with advanced stabilization that would be a big bonus. also, kroot in my experience arent something you just throw in and expect them to be worth anything, unless you build a heavy kroot army and play it well, or just plan on using them to sit on objectives, i wouldn't use them.

If youre going to spend points on a multi tracker for your devilfish, i would put smart missiles on them. if you leave the base drones, they can fire even if you move 12 if i'm not mistaken. they count as passengers but i think they can still fire if you move full speed.

I would probably drop the stealth team, IMO theyre too expensive for markers, pathfinders are usually the way to go for them. stealths are really good anti infantry, but if youve got devilfish with SMS, fire warriors, and a railhead blast marker, you dont need more

if you need to save points, you might consider dropping twin linked from your plasma rifles, that adds up

RedFloyd90 wrote:I would drop the drones, 5th edition leadership is way too high to rely on drones. they hardly ever wound, and most things have 8-10 ld. and as far as anti vehicle goes, a hammerhead and missile pods are good, if you can squeeze in a broadside or two with advanced stabilization that would be a big bonus. also, kroot in my experience arent something you just throw in and expect them to be worth anything, unless you build a heavy kroot army and play it well, or just plan on using them to sit on objectives, i wouldn't use them.

If youre going to spend points on a multi tracker for your devilfish, i would put smart missiles on them. if you leave the base drones, they can fire even if you move 12 if i'm not mistaken. they count as passengers but i think they can still fire if you move full speed.

I would probably drop the stealth team, IMO theyre too expensive for markers, pathfinders are usually the way to go for them. stealths are really good anti infantry, but if youve got devilfish with SMS, fire warriors, and a railhead blast marker, you dont need more

if you need to save points, you might consider dropping twin linked from your plasma rifles, that adds up

Now this is a better alternative. Without those drones I can easily afford a broadside without taking away a squad of fire warriors and a fish.

Thanks, Red! I'm keeping the stealth team, however... I love their JSJ-marking ability too much...

After a lot of reworking, I've come up with this list:

Shas'El (Commander)
-XV-81 (gives Smart Missile System) (Forgeworld Model)
-Targetting Array
--Stimulant Injector
--Multi-Tracker
--Drone Controller
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
--Bonding Knives
--Shield Drone
Total: 125 points

Bodyguard for Shas'El
-Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker
-Airbursting fragmentation projector
-Missile Pod
-Targetting Array
Total - 82 pts

Bodyguard for Shas'El
-Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker
-Twin-linked Plasma rifle
-Missile Pod
Total - 82 pts

3x Fire Warrior Squad
8 fire Warriors each
Total: 240 pts

3x Devilfish
-Disruption Pods
total: 255 pts

1x XV 25 stealth squad
3x Stealth Suits
Bonding Knives
Leader Designation & Markerlight
2x Markerlight Drone
Total: 170 pts

Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Smart Missile System
Multi-Tracker
Disruption Pod
Target Lock
Total: 180 pts

Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Smart Missile System
Multi-Tracker
Disruption Pod
Target Lock
Total: 180 pts

3x Crisis suits
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-tracker
Total: 186 pts

1500 pt Army

EDIT: got rid of the point lists.

Very good. However, your still posting individual unit upgrade costs. GW say that froums aren't allowed to do that. I know its annoying, but the thing is, with what you've written, someone could come along and write pretty much any Tau list without buying the Tau codex. Get rid of those values.
Also, as it is you Don't have enough Markerlights. Consider droping the Commanders bodyguard and 1 fire wariior for another Stealth-Marker-team. That extra acuracy that 3 more Markerlights brings more than makes up for the slight loss of firepower. As it is though, Ithink you may be better off with Pathfinders. The cheap Marker Volume is Great, and thanks to the 36" range they don't need to be Particuarly mobile, plus if they are in trouble you can speed a Devilfish over to bail them out.
Cam

Fixed the point costs, can't believe I did it again. I just copied and pasted it from my latest notepad document full of all my changes and such. Didn't even think about it.

As for the markerlights, what use are they without the seeker missiles? I'm well aware of the BS boost and cover denial, but I also feel that one squad should be sufficient. I think Pathfinders are a bit of a point sink and... well, I just plain don't like them. I'll consider dropping bodyguards for markerlight stealth teams, I'll have to run a few games through fantasy grounds first. I've also been told that I need to take yet another Railhead... So I'll be trying that out as well.

Cover saves are a lot more prevalent in Fifth Edition. Some armies (like orks) rely on them, since they have a poor normal save. Vehicles get cover saves now. Using MLs to reduce cover saves and/or increase BS still works well.

Markerlight are Crucial. 2 Markerlight hits = BS5 Fire Warior team. Each hit can up BS by one, lower leadership, lowere or even get rid of cover saves, ect. I suggest reading through the passage in the Tau codex about what they do, then having a long think about possible applications. Can't pin that SM Squad? 4 Markerlight hits later, LD6 Space Marines. Statistically, that means there more likely to fail than pass. Add another 4, Bam. LD2 Space Marines!!! Need that FoF to go well? 2 Marker Hits, and there you go. BS5 Fire Warriors. Against Gyard, thats hitting on 2's, Killing on 2's. Ouch. But of course, more hit and more wounds means more saves!
VH

Here's a question, how effective are tetras at being straight up marker units?

My two cents:

1. I'd get rid of all seeker missiles. You need markerlights to fire them, and markerlights are heavy weapons. You won't be moving if you're going to fire them, which makes having troops with a markerlight in a devilfish a contradiction since you can't fire them out of a devilfish. Also, unless you're making a static gunline (which having firewarriors in devilfish suggests that you aren't) having markerlights on firewarriors doesn't work. They're heavy weapons, and you can't move and fire. On top of that, they aren't networked, so even if you *do* hold still for a turn, the squad that fires that markerlight can't use it.

Where markerlights work: When you have 3-5 troop choices that are forming a static gunline, and you have the team leader take one to give each successive squad +1 Ballistic skill. Also, taking 2 markerlight drones (networked) with firewarrior squads who form a static gunline is effective. Giving markerlight drones to Suits is also effective. Drones take on the properties of their owners, and suits are relentless and stable platforms, which make their drones the same - they can move and fire markerlights. At the same time you want to protect those markerlights, so I'd stick them on a team of Deathrain suits (twin-linked missile pods) that are going to sit behind everything and lob missiles across the field.

Even your stealth suits are going to be moving and firing, and having markerlights on them isn't going to really work. :(

2. Free advice: Suits are cheaper and just as effective as a bodyguard. Save yourself 20 points and make your bodyguard regular suits. Then attach your commander to them.

3. You might as well take your firewarriors down to 6. Not much difference between 8 and 6, and with how weak firewarriors are as a troop choice, they're going to sit in a protected devilfish the whole game trying to avoid taking fire. That's just how it is. I would drop 1 devilfish and 1 troop choice; you need those points elsewhere.

4. Hammerheads make nice troop killing weapons with a sub-munition template, but they're crap for killing vehicles. You get a single shot, and if you miss, that's it for the turn. Broadsides are FAR more effective, bringing twin-linked railguns to the table, and if you give them advanced stabilization systems, they can move and fire. Make one a teamleader with a drone controller, and take along two broadsides, 2 shield drones, and you have 4 models with 2+ armor saves. They're great for taking down vehicles.

I play Tau a *lot* differently than you, and these changes aren't necessarily to get you in line with how I play, since I'm a fan of a gunline (and I rarely, RARELY lose), but if you're going to go for the mobile list, try these changes.

Dashofpepper wrote:My two cents:

1. I'd get rid of all seeker missiles. You need markerlights to fire them, and markerlights are heavy weapons. You won't be moving if you're going to fire them, which makes having troops with a markerlight in a devilfish a contradiction since you can't fire them out of a devilfish. Also, unless you're making a static gunline (which having firewarriors in devilfish suggests that you aren't) having markerlights on firewarriors doesn't work. They're heavy weapons, and you can't move and fire. On top of that, they aren't networked, so even if you *do* hold still for a turn, the squad that fires that markerlight can't use it.

Where markerlights work: When you have 3-5 troop choices that are forming a static gunline, and you have the team leader take one to give each successive squad +1 Ballistic skill. Also, taking 2 markerlight drones (networked) with firewarrior squads who form a static gunline is effective. Giving markerlight drones to Suits is also effective. Drones take on the properties of their owners, and suits are relentless and stable platforms, which make their drones the same - they can move and fire markerlights. At the same time you want to protect those markerlights, so I'd stick them on a team of Deathrain suits (twin-linked missile pods) that are going to sit behind everything and lob missiles across the field.

Even your stealth suits are going to be moving and firing, and having markerlights on them isn't going to really work. :(

2. Free advice: Suits are cheaper and just as effective as a bodyguard. Save yourself 20 points and make your bodyguard regular suits. Then attach your commander to them.

3. You might as well take your firewarriors down to 6. Not much difference between 8 and 6, and with how weak firewarriors are as a troop choice, they're going to sit in a protected devilfish the whole game trying to avoid taking fire. That's just how it is. I would drop 1 devilfish and 1 troop choice; you need those points elsewhere.

4. Hammerheads make nice troop killing weapons with a sub-munition template, but they're crap for killing vehicles. You get a single shot, and if you miss, that's it for the turn. Broadsides are FAR more effective, bringing twin-linked railguns to the table, and if you give them advanced stabilization systems, they can move and fire. Make one a teamleader with a drone controller, and take along two broadsides, 2 shield drones, and you have 4 models with 2+ armor saves. They're great for taking down vehicles.

I play Tau a *lot* differently than you, and these changes aren't necessarily to get you in line with how I play, since I'm a fan of a gunline (and I rarely, RARELY lose), but if you're going to go for the mobile list, try these changes.

1. I already have gotten rid of the seeker missiles and markerlights on FW squads.

2. Suits are cheaper but do not gain weapons from the armory without upgrades, that's the difference. It's very useful on one of the bodyguards, but not so much the other as the other just has the TL weapons and a hard-wired multi-tracker.

3. Indeed, I might as well, and I might as well drop a fish as well since I can load two squads each. 4 squads of 6 FW's.

4. This is another reason most take markerlights, with markers they can fire their BS 4 cannon at BS 5 and hopefully negate cover saves. While Broadsides get TL weapons they are not as mobile and lack disruption pods. Basically, you trade mobility and survivability for better weaponry.

As far as markers on stealth suits go: Stealth suits and other suits follow the "Relentless" special rule because they use jet packs. Under "relentless" they can fire Heavy weapons on the move as if stationary. This applies to both drones and suits.

This is also what allows my commander to get a whopping 9 BS5 shots per turn, SMS are a heavy 4 weapon and combined with the 5-shot Cyclic Ion Blaster...

The second marker team is looking better and better by the minute.