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Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

Ok, I have an apocalypse game coming up in just over a week (fingers crossed I will be able to attend since it's my first one) and I was wondering if there was any advice I could get from fellow dakka residents. Its a multiplayer bash, 3 players a side with each player allocated 3000 points. Its going to be nids, orks and IG against the wrath of the emperors finest. I'm the nid player. After looking through the apocalypse books I was wondering if I should play an army that excels in assault with the flank march strategic asset. My line of thinking is that if the IG player gets in a shooting match with the marines he can probably hold his own for a while at least. Orks will be doing their usual thing of speeding headlong into the enemy and I wanted to surprise the good guys with lots of stealers and hormagaunts (48 and 48), accompanied with "Eye of the hive", a tyrant w/ 3 guard and a flyrant.

The only real problem I can foresee is if they take the "ambush" strategic asset, although they could only use it against 1 of my waves (stealers, or hormies wih synapse stuff).

Anyone have any sneaky ideas to help me out?

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Made in ca
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Calgary

No, I don't really have any advice for you, I'm afraid.

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Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

Well if no-one has any advice then I guess I will just let everyone know what happens... Oh I forgot to mention the IG player will be the only player fielding a superheavy (between 1 and 3 baneblades). So that kind of limits the marine players a little (I think all of them have 1 landraider each as well as access to one more that the owner has...though he may not let them use it since he's one of the players...mwahahaha).

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Made in dk
Stormin' Stompa





Well, I have a single bit of advice, but it is assuming that you want a fun Apoc game, not WAC.

Either make sure the table is at least 6' deep OR make No Mans Land bigger.

I just played a small (7000 points) Apoc game the other day. I was Orks (me) versus Eldar. We started with a 12" No Mans Land, as the rules say, and played on an 18' x 4' table.

It was extremely boring. We didn't have a lot of super heavies either. Orks had a Stompa and Eldar had a Tempest (and 2 Nightwings).
By turn 2 most fast Orks units were in combat and by turn 3 the rest was too. The game was pretty much over at that point. Not much fun.
I had picked The Big Waagh and planned to use it with Ghazs special Waagh to run 12" and assault......I never did....it wasn't necessary.

If you want a fun game make sure the table is 6' deep or make No Mans Land 18" or 24" deep.
If you are playing Apoc to win at all cost.....well, do what you like. You have misse the point of Apoc anyway.


Hope it helps.

-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."

18.000 3.500 8.200 3.300 2.400 3.100 5.500 2.500 3.200 3.000


 
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator





captain.gordino wrote:No, I don't really have any advice for you, I'm afraid.


Wow I think this has to be one of the most useless posts ever.

@OP:

If your ork player is going to provide a full headlong charge then flank marching is the way to go. It doenst really matter if they use ambush as long as you structure your waves correctly so that only the chaff takes the hit and the hard stuff comes in later. Gaunts with 'Without Number' and flankmarch are particularly good at drawing out ambuses without it having too much effect on your army. Finally if you have a lot of carnifexes then use the myetic (sp?) assault swarm. There is a lot of shock value in DSing 6 carnifexes behind enemy lines, especially if all your enemies hard stuff is off somewhere fighting orks. Used 'fexes with a combination of guns and CC weapons for best effect (TL-Devourers and scything talons is a good build for this).

taking up the mission
Polonius wrote:Well, seeing as I literally will die if I ever lose a game of 40k, I find your approach almost heretical. If we were to play each other in a tournament, not only would I table you, I would murder you, your family, every woman you ever loved and burn down your house. I mean, what's the point in winning if you allow people that don't take the game seriously to live?
 
   
Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

I would like to take lots of fexes but if I do that then my flank march tactic gets thrown out the window. Uses too many points. It was the other setup I was thinking of though...spore chimneys to reduce shots fired at my nids, then DS in froman unexpected direction.

@Steelmage99 - I like fun games, I want to win but I don't think that makes me a WAAC player. I also don't decide the setup but I will let the organiser know about making no-mans land bigger.

thanks

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Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

captain.gordino wrote:No, I don't really have any advice for you, I'm afraid.

Post Count +1!

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Made in ca
Serious Squig Herder






I can't help you but I'll post anyway. The 'cool' people seem to be doing it.

blarg 
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





West Sussex, UK

I'm gonna follow the trend and post even though it dosen't help.

Illeix wrote:The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer sheilds or sparkle lasers.


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Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Spreading the word of the Turtle Pie

Yeah, same.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






If you're playing a fun game, don't take Flank March, it is an overpowered asset. Also in my experience, the side with the most D strength weapons will win, try to balance the number out between teams or it'll be a one sided game.

"Someday someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you." 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Glendale, AZ

Flank March isn't overpowered. It's very easily countered.

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Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




Get a Hierphant then use the reinforcement asset on it, as soon as it dies, it walks back on the table lololololol.

If a hierphant is not available...
Try not to make it one sided, that alone will make for at least a good game, whether you win or lose is completely different.

A couple giant broods of endless swarm can help hold an objective on your side so more expensive stuff can go run and kill stuff at their firey whim.

Take Fexes, Oh my god take fexes and stealers and just raid them like butt pirates. Give those fexes all the upgrades you want (not too much now, gotta get all your other models in there. Cuz if you don't play with all your models in Apoc, something is wrong)

Use cover as much as you can as you advance through no man's land

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Now and forever serving the God-Emperor, and Him alone! 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Lordhat wrote:Flank March isn't overpowered. It's very easily countered.


It can be, but it depends what is flanking. Ambush works wonders against most things, but once you've have landraiders full of terminators flank march, you start hating that asset.

Our current fix is to simply only allow those models that could Outflank to use flank march. There is no outflank in apocolypse, and you could add it, but limited flank march to those units that pay for the ability helps, as does the end of consolidating into new units after a massacre.
   
Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

hmmm, I don't have a heirophant, but I do have lots of fexes. The problem is that against the landraider (s) I have to get extremely lucky to do anything at all. I also don't have enough gaunts for the endless swarm (they said no proxies and I only have 48 of each) but that was something that really interested me.

If I use the flank march asset would you guys consider it overpowered if with my first wave I used stealers then all my synapse (2 tyrants and 1 "eye of the hive") with hormies came on? If they take ambush then one of my waves is going to be crippled.

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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



Wesley Chapel FL

I think that outflank with some Screamer Killer Fexes is just what the doctor orderded. Get them in behind the enemy lines going ape, and while the marines are dealing with the fexes the orks are walking in unmolested. Stealers and other things outflanking are just icing on the cake.

Also, while I understand that Apoc is supposed to be a fun game, does it mean that playing to win is wrong? I always play to have fun and win. Granted I strive to make sure the game is fun for me and my opponent, but I still always go in with idea that I want to grind his army to dust and do dances on their corpses. Is that so wrong?

Plus the team is going to be ugly for the Marines. They have two close combat powerhouses, backed up by a hellish gunline. 1-3 Baneblades, when the opponent has no superheavy. It is not going to be the Marines day. Apoc is all about the story that unfolds, there will be plenty of opportunities for Marine's heroic last stands, but I doubt they will carry the day against your teams match made in hell.

Give a monkey a brain and it will try to take over the world. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

You cannot play Apoc competativley and Apoc games just don't work when both sides are trying to win. This is why all the Apoc games I've played except the first have had a significant story involved, and forces that fit the story. The games were used to work out what the outcome of the story was, and from that outcome we could plan the next.

So in light of that, yeah, ban Flank March. It'll just make life easier as your other choices won't be geared around countering Flank March. It's just far too powerful.

I tend to like the Tyranid Swarm formation. Without Number and the Ammo thing. That's sure to annoy someone.

But I also agree on making the setup make sense. Such a tiny no-man's-land will just lead to a massive brawl in the centre by turn 2 at the latest and then it's just a war of attrition.

BYE

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine





Bella Napoli

Have the other players involved played Apocalypse before, or will this be their first game?

Apocalypse is a blast. Have fun with it. And fun does include trying to win. I mean what is the alternative: trying to lose. I wouldn't recommend that. Play to win (but not at all costs), but let fun for everyone at the table trump winning.

I would not recommend a larger 'no man's land.' If the Marines do not want to get stuck in, they should set up deeper in their deployment zone away from 'no man's land.'

Having said all that, I agree with the others that a partnership between Orks, Nids, and Guard is a great partnership. You will have the best of 40k combat. Each of your armies compliments the other. You have the best of shooty and the best CC. The strengths of each army will cover the weakness of each army.


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Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




California

I'm with HBMC on this: the Swarm is a whole lot of fun. Is there no way to borrow the models you are missing? You only need another dozen each.

As an old Epic player I like Apocalypse for the imagery that it evokes. Nothing will make you feel more like a Tyranid player than playing the Swarm. I use it in every Apoc game that I play bugs because it is so iconic.

Apocalypse Ready:
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Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Edmonton area, Canada

Wait a second, you mean one side is 9k marines? VS 3 low-point horde armies? You should be able to corner them easily. Could you please post the list you're planning to run?



8k CSM, legion 2, founding chapter 'Faceless Reavers' and auxiliary forces
2k 'Waaaghboss Gorzag's Trukkladz'

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Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





Philadelphia

Flank March is a cheap beardy asset. It should never have been put in the book. Take something a bit more interesting, some of the tyranid specific assets in Reload are pretty cool.
   
Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

Haha the game has now changed slightly. Im now the organiser since the guy who was in charge has now gone to the US for a month. So now as well as being concerned with my own army I will spend the next few days calling people to confirm everyone else is good to go. I have a story setup for how the guard, nids and orks all go together but orks are no longer valid since he was the original organiser (just means us nid and guard get more points each). If possible there's now an eldar player who may be viable to help out the marines. I also noticed something else available to the marines...a warhound titan.

Now that our firebase is pretty scrambled I think I can rule out flank march...too risky with only 1 other player. I was gonna use the asset that makes everything shooting through 12" count as night fighting...might be worth it.

oh and I'm no longer certain on my list but I have:

2 tyrants (1 winged cc, 1 w/ twin liked devourers)
1 broodlord
3 tyrant guard
1 lictor
9 deathspitter warriors
3 twin linked devourer warriors
2 warriors with BS
1 warrior wih VC
3 cc warriors
48 gaunts
48 hormagaunts
48 genestealers
3 gunfexes
1 cc fex
1 BS fex
1 dakkafex
2 zoanthropes

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Perhaps use a pincer strategy where you would do something like this:

-Keep the guard forces in the center of your deployment zone. You want to do this for three reasons:
1) They need the most line of sight out of the three forces on your side, the center of the deployment zone between the orks and the nids will most likely give them a lot it.
2)They are the most vulnerable to being flanked out of the three forces, so by keeping them tight in the center with the orks and nids covering their flanks, that should keep them protected.
3) They are the most static force out of the three on your team, you want to keep your guys pretty still while firing at the enemy/trying to draw them out and spread them out.

Have your ork player deploy on one side, with the nids on the other. Try to make the guard players deployment as tempting as possible from a frontal charge, but make sure to be smart and keep them slightly out of probably charge routes.

Next, rush forward with your two mobile forces (nids and orks) and aim straight for the enemies flanks. If you pull this off correctly, it should serve you well.

Note: You obviously have to take into account how the enemy deploys. This strategy would work the most effectively if he spreads out pretty thing or center-heavy.
   
 
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